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-   -   Criticism on Máxima's Remarks about the Dutch Identity; September 2007 (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f48/criticism-on-m-ximas-remarks-about-the-dutch-identity-september-2007-a-14323.html)

lucien 09-24-2007 12:21 PM

Criticism on Máxima's Remarks about the Dutch Identity; September 2007
 
HRH at the presentation of the WRR report,The Hague this afternoon.

PPE Agency

Courtesy PPE/Nieboer.

Speech by Princess Máxima,(in dutch,english version will follow soon.):
Het Koninklijk Huis

Tan 09-24-2007 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucien (Post 671421)
HRH at the presentation of the WRR report,The Hague this afternoon.

PPE Agency

Courtesy PPE/Nieboer.

Speech by Princess Máxima,(in dutch,english version will follow soon.):
Het Koninklijk Huis


She is always so happy, i love that.

I hope i am wrong, but is she get a little bit chubby?

Marengo 09-24-2007 05:02 PM

Well, i think Maxima quickly looks chubby in the face, and she has given birth to three children of course, so... Still I don´t think there is much difference from before the summer holidays.

--

About the speech, it focussed on ´what is a Dutchman´, can we discribe that at all? The conclusion was of course that there were all different kinds of Dutchmen and not one discription could be given. Considering the recent succes of Geert Wilders (right wing politician) it seems she is speaking out, supported by her mother-in-law no doubt. She made the remark that she doesn´t approve of the view that the country is some sort if zoo, every group in its own space.

Maxie 09-24-2007 06:15 PM

Yes, it was a wonderful speech, I totally agree with her on that point! All this silly talk that is going on over here at the moment, it's getting tiresome. :rolleyes:

Vanesa 09-24-2007 07:59 PM

She did her job wonderfully. Nothing to criticize over there...

Chubby? I don't think so. She was never thin. I see her as normal as ever.

Vanesa.

Kelly 09-24-2007 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 671532)
About the speech, it focussed on ´what is a Dutchman´, can we discribe that at all? The conclusion was of course that there were all different kinds of Dutchmen and not one discription could be given. Considering the recent succes of Geert Wilders (right wing politician) it seems she is speaking out, supported by her mother-in-law no doubt. She made the remark that she doesn´t approve of the view that the country is some sort if zoo, every group in its own space.

That is funny but true and I think every nation is that way in some sort. She does look less thin than before but maybe it is taking her more time to lose the weight this time.

princess olga 09-25-2007 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucien (Post 671421)
HRH at the presentation of the WRR report,The Hague this afternoon.

PPE Agency

Courtesy PPE/Nieboer.

Speech by Princess Máxima,(in dutch,english version will follow soon.):
Het Koninklijk Huis

Wonderful, spot-on, personal speech. you can tell these are <her> thoughts. Every time now that I read one of her speeches I think: this girl has THE most depth of all the current crown princesses (bar perhaps Letizia, but who seems more confined somehow than her Dutch counterpart).

Pooky 09-25-2007 07:59 AM

I've just read her speech, and I agree that it's a very good one, what else could she say being yet another "ingeburgerd" Dutch citizen.
I didn't kwow that they had that mushroom in front of their house indicating the coordinates, distances, direction of the places where she's lived? That's nice! :smile: Anyone seen a picture or the real thing?

Tan 09-25-2007 12:54 PM

Here you can read something about her speech. It´s german

All About Royals - Target page

best sentence : Don´t think just black or white!

Regina 09-25-2007 01:11 PM

Can someone translate her speech to English, please? I would be so thankful. :flowers:

Tan 09-25-2007 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina (Post 671756)
Can someone translate her speech to English, please? I would be so thankful. :flowers:


boah thats difficult :flowers:

Myriam 09-25-2007 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo (Post 671532)

About the speech, it focussed on ´what is a Dutchman´, can we discribe that at all? The conclusion was of course that there were all different kinds of Dutchmen and not one discription could be given. Considering the recent succes of Geert Wilders (right wing politician) it seems she is speaking out, supported by her mother-in-law no doubt. She made the remark that she doesn´t approve of the view that the country is some sort if zoo, every group in its own space.

oh boy... is she a liberal? i thought she was a conservative in argentina :ohmy:

immigration is not an easy issue. immigration have bad and good sides. but yeah maxima allows and supports immigration cause she won't suffer from its bad effects. i have friends in europe who complain a LOT about immigrants specially from the ones who came from other continents. i guess maxima said what others told her to say i cant believe she wrote a speech like that one. :eek:

Myriam 09-25-2007 02:20 PM

im not a dutch :smile: but ill try to translate the words i know

maxima said the topic "identity" interests a lot of people in the Netherlands. This topic touches them all. About seven years suffered started my search for the Dutch identity. I was helped by numerous kind and wise experts. They tought her to see, to hear and taste the Netherlands. It was a splendid and rich experience for which I am enormously grateful.
But is there a Dutch identity? Not that I have found. The Netherlands is: be attached to privacy, one biscuit at the tea. But also: enormous hospitality and warmth. The Netherlands is: common sense and control. Pragmatism. But also: together intense emotions alive. The Dutchman does not exist. As a consolation I can say you that the Argentinian does not exist also.
Identification with the Netherlands. That leaves space for development. And for diversity. Learn to understand each other because you share together an importance. Think of a sport club. Or a company. Or a school.

Good of it the emphasis does not lie on the visible differs between people. But on the common aim. And on everybody's personal qualities. Thus preconceptions can melt away. Together play. Together study. Together work. That gives a common perspective to young people with several contexts. That is enormously important in a world of open borders. We think still in dividing lines. Also newcomers do that.
Diversity rewards. Ladies and Gentlemen, according to figures of the United Nations there are 175 millions of people living in a country where they are not born. I am of those 175 millions. In our house stands a mushroom That mushroom gives the coordinates of my life. Buenos Aires. New York. Brussels. The Hague. Wassenaar. With the correct direction and the distance in kilometres. Each time if I go or come home, I see all those places that are part of my life. They belong to my identity such as Dutch. They are me.
Dont think black or white. People have always more dimensions. People also change. That is makes people particular: the capacity to develop. It is not "or, or" but "and, and". That does not make the discussion concerning identity easier. But it makes it much more interesting.

Marengo 09-25-2007 02:36 PM

IMO she wasn´t speaking in favour of immigration. The report of the WRR did research about the Dutch identity. She supported their conclusion in her speech.

Thanks for translating the text Myriam! I will edit your post as it is now in bold letters, and that is usually used to post moderator warnings ;).

I think the RF is aware of what you said (Maxima not seeing any direct negative effets of immigration in her own circle). In an interview in the 80-ties the topic was discussed and the Queen aid ´well it is easy for me of course, because I don´t have them as neighbours´. When the interview was edited the RVD deleted the comment though.

gardenia8 09-25-2007 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myriam (Post 671771)
oh boy... is she a liberal? i thought she was a conservative in argentina :ohmy:

immigration is not an easy issue. immigration have bad and good sides. but yeah maxima allows and supports immigration cause she won't suffer from its bad effects. i have friends in europe who complain a LOT about immigrants specially from the ones who came from other continents. i guess maxima said what others told her to say i cant believe she wrote a speech like that one. :eek:

Wouldn't she have to be in support of immigration since she herself is an immigrant? It would be very hypocritical of her to say it is okay for me to be here but not others. CP Mary is an immigrant in Denmark as well. As is Princess Angela of Liechtenstein and many other royals and good people.

Maxie 09-25-2007 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myriam (Post 671771)
oh boy... is she a liberal? i thought she was a conservative in argentina :ohmy:

immigration is not an easy issue. immigration have bad and good sides. but yeah maxima allows and supports immigration cause she won't suffer from its bad effects. i have friends in europe who complain a LOT about immigrants specially from the ones who came from other continents. i guess maxima said what others told her to say i cant believe she wrote a speech like that one. :eek:

Well, I actually think she did. What else was she to do? I think with all the work she has done on immigrant issues the last couple of years she has a rather complete view of the problems that are going on over here. I'm even inclined to say that she probably knows more about the subject than the avarage Dutchman.

What's so totally weird about what's going on over here in the Netherlands is the thing that the cities where most people voted for the the Geert Wilders chap are actually cities (or even villages) where you won't find many immigrants. People who actually never have met or talked to an immigrant have obviously the strongest opinions. I think it's a nice gesture from the princess to take at least the trouble to point out that all people are the same and noone is to be labeled by anyone else. :flowers:

Regina 09-25-2007 03:34 PM

Thanks a lot, Myriam!!!! :flowers: It was very kind of you!

My opinion is that she seems very interested for the topic as always, and I found her last words about the mushroom quite impressive. :smile:

I agree immigration is a hard topic especially to Europeans but I don't think she was defending immigration at all costs. I guess what she wanted to say was that people's experiences from the past can and should help to create and developpe a better society. I understood from her words that she wanted to stress that different backgrounds are a plus for any country.

Marengo 09-25-2007 03:39 PM

Well, I don´t know if everybody is familiar with the ANWB mushroom. It is something in the shape of a mushroom which gives directions for cyclists in natural areas. This way they don´t have to put up ugly big signs. Apparenlty somebody had one made for Princess Maxima, a nice idea!

--

I think the PoO made some subtle comments about Geert Wilders/ the debate about Islam in The Netherlands during the interview for his 40th birthday. I thought that was quite remarkable as they usually stay away from political remarks. Anyway, the Prince basically said that he didn´t think more polarisation was gppd fpr the country/ society.

Regina 09-25-2007 04:35 PM

I have seen posts with distances in several countries as touristic symbols.
I found that mushroom a very lovely personal detail from Máxima. :smile: She could add Seville, the city where she met Prince Williem :wub:

Myriam 09-25-2007 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gardenia8 (Post 671793)
Wouldn't she have to be in support of immigration since she herself is an immigrant? It would be very hypocritical of her to say it is okay for me to be here but not others. CP Mary is an immigrant in Denmark as well. As is Princess Angela of Liechtenstein and many other royals and good people.

but maxima is the perfect example of Integration. this royal woman should be a case study. she hasnt lost her ties with argentina, she hasnt lost her latino personality but shes a dutch now, she speaks the dutch, she participate in dutch people paries and she works for the netherlands! when i said immigration is a non-easy issue is because many immigrants insist in living by their own behaviour standards in their new country and they refuse to learn the new language. maxima stressed she is not an argentinian but a dutch princess who born in argentina.
thanks marengo for your reply it enlighted me a lot.


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