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-   -   Was 'The Oval' in Althorp the right place to bury Diana? (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f38/was-the-oval-in-althorp-the-right-place-to-bury-diana-13507.html)

TheTruth 08-08-2007 11:01 AM

Was 'The Oval' in Althorp the right place to bury Diana?
 
Okay it's a little morbid but many people are still contesting this decision which was taken 10 years ago. It seems to be a strange question but I had to ask it. Moderators : delete it if you think it's inappropriate for the forum:flowers:. I apologize in advance if it was the case.

CasiraghiTrio 08-08-2007 11:22 AM

Refresh my memory, someone. Whose decision was it? Was it in her Will that she wanted this, or was it made by the Spencers as being an appropriate place where she could rest in peace? I assume this was either Diana's or the Spencers' unanimous decision, because I don't believe the royal family would have much cared where she was buried and would have accepted whatever the Spencers decided. It was either Sarah McCorquodale or Lord Spencer, or both, who was executor of the Will, right? They would have made this decision.

What little I "know" of Diana (I "know" much from books, for lack of a better word, but I know it's not really "knowing" her) I would say it makes sense that she would have liked to be buried in anyone of her childhood homes, and I feel fairly comfortable saying I am sure that she loved Park House, grew to love Althorp, and also cherished her mother's Scottish farm. Given those choices, I'd say Althorp was a good choice because:
1) Park House, Sandringham was out of the question, for obvious reasons
2) Her mother probably hated the idea of her Scottish home being turned into a "Graceland", and Althorp was already open to the public with a pay office (from a converted stables) and everything like that.
3) I believe expecting the royal family to open up Windsor or any of their estates for Diana's final resting place would have been hoping for a miracle. Say what you will about her being a future king's mother, they could hardly get their heads around her having a public funeral much less being laid to rest among Queen Victoria and Prince Albert and all the rest at Frogmore.

TheTruth 08-08-2007 11:38 AM

I've found her will here. She says she wished to be buried but didn't specify the place. Normally, I think the Spencer are burried in the church near Althorp. Diana is an exeption of course. I believe the decision was taken by one of the 2. Although I read somewhere, several times, that all her will wasn't respected but I don't remember which part.

selrahc4 08-08-2007 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio (Post 651178)
Given those choices, I'd say Althorp was a good choice because:
1) Park House, Sandringham was out of the question, for obvious reasons

Is the obvious reason the fact that the Spencers didn't own this property?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio (Post 651178)
3) I believe expecting the royal family to open up Windsor or any of their estates for Diana's final resting place would have been hoping for a miracle. Say what you will about her being a future king's mother, they could hardly get their heads around her having a public funeral much less being laid to rest among Queen Victoria and Prince Albert and all the rest at Frogmore.

I've read that that it was originally the Queen's intention that the Princess should receive a quiet family ceremony and be buried at Frogmore, but of course events and the wishes of the Spencers changed that. Still, the option was there.

HRH Kerry 08-08-2007 11:46 AM

If one day William as king and Prince Harry want to move her closer, then the decision is theirs as to where they would place her.

sirhon11234 08-08-2007 11:47 AM

I've also read that Selrahc4 if the Princess of Wales wasn't buried at Althorp she probably would have been buried at Frogmore.

bbb 08-08-2007 11:47 AM

it's always bothered me that she's out on that island "by herself" i know it's silly but it seems so forlorn and lonely. if i remember it was said it was a favorite place to them when they were children and she had happy memories there. i suppose there was also a danger of gawd forbid some crazy fan, stealing her body like they did evita perons. in the back of my mind is the fact her brother has been making $$$ off her death (from tourists) when he wouldn't give her refuge when she was alive. i really don't like him!

HRH Kerry 08-08-2007 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio (Post 651178)
... I believe expecting the royal family to open up Windsor or any of their estates for Diana's final resting place would have been hoping for a miracle. Say what you will about her being a future king's mother, they could hardly get their heads around her having a public funeral much less being laid to rest among Queen Victoria and Prince Albert and all the rest at Frogmore.

Isn't the Duchess of Windsor among the residents at Frogmore?

ysbel 08-08-2007 12:03 PM

Well despite what I think of Earl Spencer which is not much, he was the closest person to Diana when they were growing up so I don't think he sees his late sister solely as the source of a get rich quick scheme.

I also think that despite the things we can justifiably accuse Lord Spencer of doing, refusing his sister sanctuary wasn't one of them. According to the book I am reading from Sally Bedows Smith, Lord Spencer initially told Diana that she could use some property on the estate for herself and her sons but when Buckingham Palace sent a security detail to scope the place, they recommended far-reaching changes including a thrice-daily sweep of the entire property by security forces. At that point, Earl Spencer got concerned about the impact on his own family.

Handling the Diana fans that come to her grave is not the same because he is still in charge for how to handle that security and he doesn't need to defer to Buckingham Palace. If he had agreed to let Diana stay on his estate, he would have had to defer the management of security at his estate to the Royal security.

It appears that Diana and Earl Spencer share the same trait in that they didn't like being controlled by Buckingham Palace and Earl Spencer displayed that trait in his decision on Diana's burial.

That rebelling against the authority of Buckingham Palace may be the legacy of Diana that he wanted to perpetuate since that is the trait he shared with his sister. It may not be the best trait of Diana to memorialize in the opinions of everybody else however.

TheTruth 08-08-2007 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbb (Post 651192)
it's always bothered me that she's out on that island "by herself" i know it's silly but it seems so forlorn and lonely. if i remember it was said it was a favorite place to them when they were children and she had happy memories there. i suppose there was also a danger of gawd forbid some crazy fan, stealing her body like they did evita perons.

Yes I understand that many incidents were avoided by keeping her grave away from crazy people but there could have been other ways to keep it safe and allowing people to pay her visit. I'm thinking of Monroe's which was put in a crypt in Westwood Village Memorial Park. Visitors were able to put flowers whenever they wanted and the grave couldn't be stolen (problem that occured with Charlie Chaplin's grave which was burried in a 'normal' way).

Elspeth 08-08-2007 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRH Kerry (Post 651194)
Isn't the Duchess of Windsor among the residents at Frogmore?

Yes, as is the Duke of Windsor, along with other minor royals.

Find A Grave - Royal Burial Grounds at Frogmore

TheTruth 08-08-2007 12:46 PM

It still bothers me that she's alone over there. People reproch to some Diana fans to be in mourning even after 10 years but how can you say goodbye to someone who is 'untouchable', burried where nobody can go ?
It would do a hell of a good for some persons to bring flowers on her grave. There were millions in front of BP and KP but it's not the same thing, people were in shock at that time, it was a crowd reaction. To be able to drop a note or flowers close to her would be the best thing to show that we don't forget her.

ysbel 08-08-2007 12:51 PM

I thought people could sign their condolences at the guestbook at Althorp. Is that not true?

bbb 08-08-2007 01:05 PM

thanks for the info ysbel, while i don't like him i understand better why he would want to protect his family and have control over his own estate. sadly i think diana was badly used by many around her, a woman craving love so much is especially vulnurable to those she "trusts" and the $ that has been made over her grave (books etc) makes me feel sad and sick for her sons. someone had an interesting point that perhaps when the "old guard" have passed, her sons might move her, while its a sweet sentiment it kinda makes me shudder at the thought of the whole morbid idea.

BeatrixFan 08-08-2007 01:28 PM

Is it right to bury anyone anywhere? When a well-known person, dare I say, an icon, dies, there will be positive and negative reaction and that has to be taken into consideration when choosing a burial location. For example, when Hitler's remains were found, they were stored away until 1970, cremated thoroughly along with the remains of Eva Braun, Magda and Josef Goebbels and their children and were tipped into the Elbe. Why? Because the Soviets didn't want Hitler's grave to become a shrine for Neo-Nazis. I assume they didn't want hoards of Di loons trapsing across Diana's burial place each day and felt it would be nicer to have memorials and shriners visit a memorial rather than the actual grave.

ysbel 08-08-2007 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbb (Post 651217)
thanks for the info ysbel, while i don't like him i understand better why he would want to protect his family and have control over his own estate. sadly i think diana was badly used by many around her, a woman craving love so much is especially vulnurable to those she "trusts" and the $ that has been made over her grave (books etc) makes me feel sad and sick for her sons. someone had an interesting point that perhaps when the "old guard" have passed, her sons might move her, while its a sweet sentiment it kinda makes me shudder at the thought of the whole morbid idea.

Well bbb, the Danes moved Empress Dagmar's remains to Russia to be beside her husband the Czar about 75 years after she died with remarkable good grace and taste so I think if enough time passes and William remains cordial with his Spencer cousins, there is a possibility of King William ascending the throne and moving his mother's remains to royal ground while keeping the royal dignity. I just think it is going to take several years before that can happen with grace.

Elspeth 08-08-2007 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan (Post 651230)
Is it right to bury anyone anywhere? When a well-known person, dare I say, an icon, dies, there will be positive and negative reaction and that has to be taken into consideration when choosing a burial location. For example, when Hitler's remains were found, they were stored away until 1970, cremated thoroughly along with the remains of Eva Braun, Magda and Josef Goebbels and their children and were tipped into the Elbe. Why? Because the Soviets didn't want Hitler's grave to become a shrine for Neo-Nazis. I assume they didn't want hoards of Di loons trapsing across Diana's burial place each day and felt it would be nicer to have memorials and shriners visit a memorial rather than the actual grave.

I think part of the reason Diana was buried on a fairly inaccessible island was to avoid having her grave be too available for people wanting to turn it into some sort of shrine. It was stated at the time that that's why she wasn't buried in the local church with other family members.

It isn't just "Di loons" who would visit her grave in large numbers, though (if by "Di loons" you're talking about people who might be inclined to set up a shrine and start a new religion and goodness only knows what else); all sorts of people might be interested in visiting her grave for all sorts of reasons, given her extremely high profile.

And I sincerely hope that the extremely high profile is the only comparison you're trying to make with Hitler.:smile:

BeatrixFan 08-08-2007 02:13 PM

:lol: Well she did goose-step around Kensington Palace. No, of course I'm not comparing her to Hitler, just a handy comparison of iconic status and burials. :flowers:

sirhon11234 08-08-2007 02:16 PM

Hitler isn't an icon he's the most famous maniac of the 20th century.

TheTruth 08-08-2007 02:35 PM

For someone who was so close to the people and wanted to be the Queen of Hearts, being left on an island is not the best place to illustrate that. I agree that some bad things could happen if you leave it to the crazy fans or 'Di loons' whatever they are. Although we know that the worst thing that could happened to her was to be left alone and unfortunately she is now.


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