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-   -   The banning of El Jueves Magazine (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f11/the-banning-of-el-jueves-magazine-13335.html)

lula 07-20-2007 04:13 AM

The banning of El Jueves Magazine
 
Everything has a limit, and in this occasion “El Jueves” has exceeded the minimum respect that must to the people who represent of a worthy way to the State and all the citizens. The magazine can have jokes, satires... about the Royal family have always done them... but this it already passes to the lack of respect and the bad education.

Now that the press does not cry, it does not criticize and it protests… because if continues demonstrating this lack of respect, like many others, which obtains is that the Princes get tired and “they close the faucet”. And at the moment in Palma de Mallorca they are waiting for the images of the vacations of the Princes with their daughters, who suppose a good money for the press.

crisiñaki 07-20-2007 04:34 AM

if they dare to post something like this is because they don't respect the Princes much, nothing like this would be posted in any other country regarding their CP couple

maybe it's their personal brand of making fun, maybe it's something deeper, who knows:ermm:

monica 07-20-2007 04:42 AM

The truth that could have been another photo with another joke I believe that one has gone away to them of the hands to the CR.This had not published it years ago, of that I am safe and soon the text that puts the princess to him is one hurts that they do that.

They had to put itself but serious so that these things did not return to happen

lula 07-20-2007 04:45 AM

" El Jueves " has never been characterized by the respect to anybody ... in this occasion, they have used a very easy resource (that denotes lack of ideas and of imagination), to have an advertising and economic performance (if they do not create a polemic front page nobody speaks about them). Probably what they have not calculated they are the repercussions that this type of attitudes have for the rest of the press. There will be a certain type of press that they " laughs the joke ", and there will be other one, which will criticize them for thinking that this type of attitudes, eventually, harm all.

Duke of Marmalade 07-20-2007 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 643265)
Everything has a limit, and in this occasion “El Jueves” has exceeded the minimum respect that must to the people who represent of a worthy way to the State and all the citizens. The magazine can have jokes, satires... about the Royal family have always done them... but this it already passes to the lack of respect and the bad education.

Now that the press does not cry, it does not criticize and it protests… because if continues demonstrating this lack of respect, like many others, which obtains is that the Princes get tired and “they close the faucet”. And at the moment in Palma de Mallorca they are waiting for the images of the vacations of the Princes with their daughters, who suppose a good money for the press.

Personally I agree, as I said in Germany there is a similar magazine and in many cases the court has to decide what satire is and what not, depending on the reaction of the people concerned (mostly VIPs or politicians). How do the princes react in general when it's beyond the usual sense of humour? IMO this is a case where they could raise an official complain to the press because it's a bit too much. The result might be that even more people buy the mag or have a look at it, but at least they might gain some respect because they show that they don't let themselves being ridiculed w/o any limit.

Another example for what I said in earlier posts, that some parts of the press lack any respect towards the princes, something they would never dare to do to the Kings.

monica 07-20-2007 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 643283)
Personally I agree, as I said in Germany there is a similar magazine and in many cases the court has to decide what satire is and what not, depending on the reaction of the people concerned (mostly VIPs or politicians). How do the princes react in general when it's beyond the usual sense of humour? IMO this is a case where they could raise an official complain to the press because it's a bit too much. The result might be that even more people buy the mag or have a look at it, but at least they might gain some respect because they show that they don't let themselves being ridiculed w/o any limit.

Another example for what I said in earlier posts, that some parts of the press lack any respect towards the princes, something they would never dare to do to the Kings.

No, never it would pass this to the Kings of that I am very safe. :neutral:

lula 07-20-2007 04:56 AM

Personally, I think that to use this type of images to do humor only demonstrates lack of ideas ... it is a too easy resource.

" El jueves " is a magazine of very acid humor .... often satires of the King do, not with images of this type, but yes, with more acid and more intelligent texts or images. In this occasion, it impresses the type of image, but the text does not stop being another " easy resource ", because the Prince " never works " (not who would say if in Spain there was another Prince).

The King and the Prince are persons intelligently, with sense of the humor, which cartoons collect ... what happens is that in this occasion this front page is not " intelligent humor " but " intelligent business " (and I do not have the above mentioned very clear).:rolleyes:

Lantash 07-20-2007 05:47 AM

Personally, those kind of..mmm... ¿journalists? the only thing they care for is money and polemics sell so good in this country, doesn't matter who can hurt in the proccess.

lula 07-20-2007 09:53 AM

The Hearing prohibits the sale of the last number of 'El Jueves' for a supposed crime of damages to the Wreath

The judge of the National Hearing Juan del Olmo has ordered by request of the General District attorney's office of the State, to withdraw of the kiosks and to prohibit the diffusion of the last number of the satirical magazine 'El Jueves' for a supposed crime of damages to The Wreath. The front page of its last number, to the sale from yesterday, represents a cartoon of the Princes of Asturias in a sexual explicit attitude.
...

Duke of Marmalade 07-20-2007 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 643379)
The Hearing prohibits the sale of the last number of 'El Jueves' for a supposed crime of damages to the Wreath

The judge of the National Hearing Juan del Olmo has ordered by request of the General District attorney's office of the State, to withdraw of the kiosks and to prohibit the diffusion of the last number of the satirical magazine 'El Jueves' for a supposed crime of damages to The Wreath. The front page of its last number, to the sale from yesterday, represents a cartoon of the Princes of Asturias in a sexual explicit attitude.
...

Thanks lula.
Same story, the court had to decide. Now some people will say the decision was right, because it insults the princes, others will say it was wrong, because it cuts the freedom of press and besides it is satire. People are now aware and the mag will probably do much better than usual. All at cost of the princes, who might now even be critizised by people for not bearing enough humour :wacko:
Personally I think the princes have done the right thing by complaining but it's appalling to see how they have become an object for a certain press to make money by showing the utmost disrespect. I wonder how they can stop this trend because it does a lot of damage to their future as Kings of Spain.

Elsa M. 07-20-2007 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade (Post 643399)
Personally I think the princes have done the right thing by complaining

There's no information about the Princes having addressed any complain... that's just the Law... according to the Penal Code, people who insult the King or his descendants may be condemned to 2 years in jail, so those guys from El Jueves are actually lucky for not receiving a major damage with this.

lula 07-20-2007 10:58 AM

Duke, I agree in that now the press will create a great polemic concerning the Princes, and alredy they have bussiness for weeks.

A thing is the "freedom of expression" and other one to do what one wants, the freedom of a person ends where it begins the freedom of other one... and in this case, though it is a joke, they have exceeded the line of the minimal respect that owes a person to itself.

Another thing that I want to clarify. Neither the Princes, neither the Royal House, have done nothing, have not even denounced anybody.

The Public prosecutor of the State is the one that undertakes legal actions because it considers that the magazine has committed a crime of the Penal Code.

Duke of Marmalade 07-20-2007 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lula (Post 643414)
Duke, I agree in that now the press will create a great polemic concerning the Princes, and alredy they have bussiness for weeks.

A thing is the "freedom of expression" and other one to do what one wants, the freedom of a person ends where it begins the freedom of other one... and in this case, though it is a joke, they have exceeded the line of the minimal respect that owes a person to itself.

Another thing that I want to clarify. Neither the Princes, neither the Royal House, have done nothing, have not even denounced anybody.

The Public prosecutor of the State is the one that undertakes legal actions because it considers that the magazine has committed a crime of the Penal Code.

Thanks for explaining lula, makes sense. Probably the same thing for any Head of State, monarch or not. All others have to raise their requests themselves, the result should be the same although it's a thin line between insult and satire and courts are not always on the same opinion.

By the way, it's still on the webpage of el jueves. Now of course they make the most of it :bangin:

RaniaRocks 07-20-2007 02:37 PM

That's censorship, sometimes I wonder if I'm living Franco's epoca upon my mother's memories.

Thanks to all the censors now El Jueves and that cover is on the four points of the world, great.

When you can call tyrant the tyrant you don't need humor, in Spain we get crazy with things like the Mahoma caricatures and the musulmans reactions, with the censorship in other countries et al but we need to look to ourselves and stop looking so much outside.

A strong country, a strong President, a strong Monarchy won't mind humor for as acid as it could be, our democracy unfortunatelly is still weak, our monarchy is still weak and is no wonder that more and more people everyday are favoring a republic with a President and that's it.

lula 07-20-2007 02:54 PM

I am boring to read the word “censures” and the expression “freedom of expression”. Just as the press it has a right, the people, are Princes de Asturias that is my neighbor, they also have rights, and the right to the dignity is one of them.

"El Jueves" has exceeded the line of the respect to the people, of an unnecessary way. And they have let it knowing perfectly which were the consequences, perhaps was what these consequences looked for, perhaps only wanted the publicity that they have obtained.

In Spain there is a Penal Code, and the press knows it… if they exceed the line are not possible to be surprised. In this case the office of the public prosecutor takes the legal actions that correspond to him. If the same it had happened with a deprived person, and this had denounced it, the judge would have made the same decision, since they have made with some famous personages and certain programs of television.

carlota 07-20-2007 02:55 PM

i just read the news at el mundo, and the caricature incident is the first piece of news they feature. while i totally understand that it's quite a rare picture they decided to make, is it that serious as to send a person to jail for 6 months? the judge apparently asked the editor to identify the people involved in the drawing. as the other poster said, i find it annoying that we are actually living under such a dictatorial regime after all. look at the scandal of clinton-lewinsky (taking into account that some years ago, it was even more serious), nothing happened in terms of identifying responsible people or sending them to jail because of mentioning certain things of the president's life. the only difference is that that was a REAL case. this is just a drawing. there's such a huge difference between some countries...

i'd say it's perfect to take the edition out of the market (althoug again... don't we have freedom of expression and speech -or at least so they tell us everyday? freedom of expression of everyone should definitely be overimposed to respect to, after all, public figures), but jailing people for just a drawing is far too exagerated.

RaniaRocks 07-20-2007 03:14 PM

The first thing that is wrong, for starters, is the fact that on the Constitution the King have an article that says, in few words, that he's untouchable, however the Constitution dosn't says anything about the Prince and Princess.

If under the law they are untouchables and we start to appoint the responsible for.... and remember to the citizens that such jokes could cost somebody jail etc then this is Morocco not Spain.

I have become so acustomed to the US way of laugh about everything w/o holly cows that I'm amused with the things that are still happening in my born country, it dosn't looks like a democracy and yes, freedom of speech = freedom of speech and censorship is still called censorship.

Ferrara 07-20-2007 03:17 PM

[quote]
Quote:

Originally Posted by carlota (Post 643469)
i just read the news at el mundo, and the caricature incident is the first piece of news they feature. while i totally understand that it's quite a rare picture they decided to make, is it that serious as to send a person to jail for 6 months? the judge apparently asked the editor to identify the people involved in the drawing. as the other poster said, i find it annoying that we are actually living under such a dictatorial regime after all. look at the scandal of clinton-lewinsky (taking into account that some years ago, it was even more serious), nothing happened in terms of identifying responsible people or sending them to jail because of mentioning certain things of the president's life. the only difference is that that was a REAL case. this is just a drawing. there's such a huge difference between some countries...


I don't see how the Clinton-Lewinsky case is an analagous case? Sure, it should have remained a private matter but this matter came up when Lewinsky had to testify in relation to the Paula Jones case.

This may have been a drawing but it is also incredibly graphic and sexually explicit. Shouldn't everyone and this includes the princes, have the right to dignity? Would you like to see PM Zapatero and his wife in exactly the same pose? The critical point here is that El Jueves could have easily produced a different cartoon to make the same point.

Ferrara 07-20-2007 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaniaRocks (Post 643477)
I have become so acustomed to the US way of laugh about everything w/o holly cows that I'm amused with the things that are still happening in my born country, it dosn't looks like a democracy and yes, freedom of speech = freedom of speech and censorship is still called censorship.

You are right that these are such important issues in any democracy. However, a biq question is this - would freedom of speech include the right for person X to defame, slander and to lie about person Y? Would that be a true democracy?

Freedom is speech is really important for everyone but I think that it is just as important to protect the freedom and right of people to dignity and from slander, harrassment and lies.

lula 07-20-2007 03:29 PM

The law is the law, and what they do the judge and the public prosecutor are to fulfill it. The press is not stupid, know the law… and if they decide to go to limit, they always have the danger that in the end this happens.

The Royal House never denounces no journalist reason why it writes. And I believe that Princess de Asturias, could easily gain many judgments by insults, damage to the honor and interference in private life.

The Royal House is too permisive with the press… in other countries many situations would finish in denunciation. In the end, that causes that the press sees free way, and in this occasion they have gone so far away that they have crashed.

Lately, several judges have prevented the emission of television programs, because some famous personage had interposed a denunciation. If the press is not regulated to itself, the judges will have to regulate it, because the same law that gives freedom to the press, gives freedom to the people so that they are defended of it.

Here the decision has been of the Office of the public prosecutor and not of a deprived person, but they have decided to denounce, the judge will have to take the measures that the law establishes.


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