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-   -   The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/the-royal-family-order-rfo-and-other-royal-orders-and-decorations-12757.html)

Dman 07-13-2017 06:02 AM

Folks,

It's not about being of a different generation. I think it's totally wonderful that The Queen loans out personal jewels to Catherine. That's great. It's just beyond odd for Catherine to have gone this long without the family order.

No one can't make the argument that Catherine hasn't done enough engagements to receive the order. I mean the lady is doing her job as a senior member of the family.

The only possible reason why Catherine hasn't received the order is due to the used of ivory in the order. It's understandable, but it's just silly to not change the setting for her and let her wear it. Why leave her totally orderless at these events when everyone else get to wear theirs?

If I was Catherine, I would my Diamond Jubilee Medal to just have something on. Even that would look odd on a dress, lol.

Duc_et_Pair 07-13-2017 06:12 AM

As only European Sovereign the Queen does not hand out orders to female consorts. See Doa Letizia with her Spanish Order. (While Flix of Luxembourg, Bernhard of the Netherlands, Henrik of Denmark and Claus of the Netherlands all received a British Order). Bernhard was even showered with four (!) British Orders.

So the RFO policy is not the only one raising eyebrows. The fact that Catherine received no Spanish Order is an answer in reciprocity. Only when a Sovereign ignores reciprocity and insists to show a personal token of esteem and honour to a British lady (Queen Juliana to Anne, Queen Beatrix to Diana) this pattern is broken.

MARG 07-13-2017 06:28 AM

:previous: I do not understand the continual moaning about the RFO, I think Dman possibly has the right of it. Since the ivory was acquired long enough ago to qualify as antique in its own right I think that the"new" attitude to very old ivory is probably why HM hasn't gone out of her way to have a suitable replacement made.

maria-olivia 07-13-2017 06:36 AM

I was sad to see Duchess Catherine with no Order at all.

Dman 07-13-2017 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARG (Post 2002018)
:previous: I do not understand the continual moaning about the RFO, I think Dman possibly has the right of it. Since the ivory was acquired long enough ago to qualify as antique in its own right I think that the"new" attitude to very old ivory is probably why HM hasn't gone out of her way to have a suitable replacement made.

That's probably just what it is. The Queen isn't hip to this new attitude towards ivory and Catherine is just left family orderless. Despite her service under The Queen.

I guess we'll just have to look forward to Catherine receiving her Tuvalu Order and possibly an appointment to a knighthood.

Iluvbertie 07-13-2017 07:06 AM

We go round and round on this issue and seem to have the following conclusions:

either she doesn't have the order because the Queen doesn't think she deserves OR she want wear ivory.

The latter falls down because it could be made from something other than ivory. That leaves only the view that the Queen believes she hasn't done enough to earn it.

The Queen has her reasons, whatever they are, and just because someone believes that doing around 100 engagements a year for 6 years is enough and having two children maybe the Queen expects more. Sarah did about this much as well but never received it - why not? Maybe things aren't as solid in the Cambridge marriage as we would like to believe (I know there are rumours that they spend a lot of time apart - not necessarily from reliable sources but those rumours do exist) or maybe the rumours about the deteriorating relationship between William and Charles are true and so the Queen, to show her support for Charles, and so isn't giving an award to Kate or maybe the decision has been made to not give any family orders to her grandchildren's generation - or at least not until her royal granddaughters are seen wearing the order and that won't be for another 10 - 50 years if at all - given the rumours about a smaller royal family with no role ever for the York princesses so if they are never to be seen wearing it maybe she feels she won't let her granddaughter-in-law wear it or maybe HM is going senile or maybe Philip has told her not to give it to Kate or maybe the rumours about the parentage of the children are true and HM is giving her subtle agreement to that by not honouring the 'mother' of those children or she doesn't like the way the Middleton's behave and so is punishing Kate.

Whatever the reason the only person who probably truly knows is HM and she isn't going to tell anyone her reasons as it is a personal order given by HM for services to HM by HRHs.

W.Y.CII 07-13-2017 07:18 AM

I doubt that QEII will change the setting for individual member if it is all about the ivory. So if the setting is changed, it will be applied to ladies in future, and this change probably takes a looooong time to complete (to find material, craftsmen/artisans, appointment, et cetera et cetera, a bunch of work :bang:)

Dman 07-13-2017 07:34 AM

I'm just going to leave the whole thing alone by finishing with this thought-

The Queen received George V's family order at the age of 9. What did she do to get it?

The family order isn't given based on years of personal achievement. It's a personal family momento marking you as a senior member of the royal family. It's worn by the senior ladies at evening State events. The Duchess of Cambridge is a senior member of the royal family.

Nico 07-13-2017 07:38 AM

And apparently we have the confirmation that Harry got something from the King of Spain !
Rosette sighting !

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...9943848074.jpg

W.Y.CII 07-13-2017 07:50 AM

Actually it is a personal gift from the monarch and possibly they set different criteria so we never know what make a lady deserves a RFO :closedeye

Molly2101 07-13-2017 07:54 AM

If he did receive something before William that is interesting.

I did notice that both Andrew and Edward had three star shaped awards on their chest which I couldn't work out what they were as neither of them have the Order of the Thistle.

Nico 07-13-2017 08:22 AM

Confirmation :

A white and yellow rosette
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...1006?s=594x594

So Harry did receive the Order of Isabella the Catholic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_...a_the_Catholic

Duke of Marmalade 07-13-2017 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molly2101 (Post 2002057)
If he did receive something before William that is interesting.

Maybe a thank you for making the effort to guide the Kings around the Abbey :biggrin:

wyevale 07-13-2017 08:36 AM

Quote:

maybe HM is going senile or maybe Philip has told her not to give it to Kate or maybe the rumours about the parentage of the children are true and HM is giving her subtle agreement to that by not honouring the 'mother' of those children or she doesn't like the way the Middleton's behave and so is punishing Kate.
This is clearly not the correct thread for answering this, but i have NEVER heard of any rumours impugning the parentage of the Cambridge children, or indeed suggesting HMQ is 'senile' ! Perhaps these canards are current in Australia ?

Pranter 07-13-2017 08:45 AM

I don't think that sort of speculation is allowed here?


LaRae

Curryong 07-13-2017 08:48 AM

No more Australian than anywhere else. Lots of canards are all over the Internet if you go looking for them, unfortunately.

Osipi 07-13-2017 09:45 AM

I think I smell a distinct odor of sarcasm. Outrageous reasons that were made up to give a bazillion reasons what HM may be thinking and not to be taken seriously. Of course we don't know what the Queen thinks so any speculation is as good as the next guy's. :biggrin:

AnaC 07-13-2017 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nico (Post 2002041)
And apparently we have the confirmation that Harry got something from the King of Spain !
Rosette sighting !

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...9943848074.jpg


Why didn't he wear the sash last night, then? :confused:

And did anyone see Andrew with a Spanish order? If Harry has received one for accompanying Felipe and Letizia, Andrew must have received one too.

Nico 07-13-2017 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnaC (Post 2002109)
Why didn't he wear the sash last night, then? :confused:

Maybe because he was wearing his RVO around his neck ? But he had definitively the star of the Order of Isabella the Catholic last night.

AnaC 07-13-2017 10:44 AM

He could wear both, and in any case he was supposed to wear his highest Spanish order last night no? The others were extra, so to speak.
The fact that he didn't wear a sash last night and that the Spanish Gazette hasn't published anything makes me wonder what is going on.


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