The Royal Forums

The Royal Forums (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/)
-   British Royals (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/)
-   -   The Royal Family Order (RFO) and other Royal Orders and Decorations (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/the-royal-family-order-rfo-and-other-royal-orders-and-decorations-12757.html)

Dman 04-07-2017 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JessRulz (Post 1974663)
I've lost count on how many times we've had the exact same discussion on this topic...

:deadhorse:

I know and I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record on this subject. It's just one of those pesky royal mysteries that bothers me. There's always a mystery when it comes down to the Windsors, lol.

Osipi 04-08-2017 04:18 AM

It the "what ifs" that give us the place to throw around ideas and form good discussions and agree and disagree with each other. When we finally do find some of the answers, its gives us a good reason to should "Eureka!!" and then find something else to muse about. :biggrin:

An Ard Ri 04-23-2017 05:21 PM

Can anyone identify what order is Princess Michael wearing in this photo?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...K_2230995b.jpg

RoyalProtocol 05-10-2017 07:52 PM

Yesterday I noticed the Countess of Wessex wore her GCVO Sash without the star (she has done this before in the past). http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/event/k...re-id681225274

Does anyone know why she does this (I know it'll probably be an educated guess).

I've never noticed any other member of the British Royal Family wear their sashes without the appropriate star.

RoyalProtocol 05-18-2017 08:36 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Another question!

So the State Opening of Parliament is a 'Collar Day'. Why therefore do the Ladies who are GCVOs wear the Sash and Star rather than a Collar and Star as required on a Collar Day.

Attachment 300414

This has only just occurred to me even though it's been happening for years!

Mbruno 07-10-2017 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muriel (Post 2000834)
I can't wait for the conversation about Catherine's orders or lack thereof at the state banquet!

Hopefully, King Felipe will put an end to that conversation by bestowing the Order of Isabella the Catholic upon the Duke and the Duchess of Cambridge. I agree with the Spanish posters here that it is highly unlikely that W&K will get a Spanish order, but, I like to keep my hope up anyway (call it wishful thinking, if you will).

Quote:

As for the orders. To me, the one for Kate that matters would be "Could I have more ice water please?". All kidding aside, if she doesn't wear an order or she does, we'll never know the reasonings behind any of it as that is not something that is made public.

The reason is quite clear actually: Queen Elizabeth II doesn't give out orders as easily as her fellow European monarchs ! For starters, she is the only European monarch AFAIK who doesn't decorate visiting queen consorts. Second, she is reluctant to decorate members of her own family until she thinks they truly deserve it so to speak.

wartenberg7 07-10-2017 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2000863)
Hopefully, King Felipe will put an end to that conversation by bestowing the Order of Isabella the Catholic upon the Duke and the Duchess of Cambridge. I agree with the Spanish posters here that it is highly unlikely that W&K will get a Spanish order, but, I like to keep my hope up anyway (call it wishful thinking, if you will).

The reason is quite clear actually: Queen Elizabeth II doesn't give out orders as easily as her fellow European monarchs ! For starters, she is the only European monarch AFAIK who doesn't decorate visiting queen consorts. Second, she is reluctant to decorate members of her own family until she thinks they truly deserve it so to speak.


I see we´re right in the middle of that order discussion again...:lol:

Why should it be so unlikely for William and Catherine to receive the order of Isabella the Catholic? This order, obviously not a very high ranking spanish order, was even bestowed on Miss Maxima Zorreguieta BEFORE she got married to the then Prince of Orange!
So why shouldn´t a Prince and Princess of the UK not receive this order then (except the current King of Spain would have changed the order policy of his father)

Mbruno 07-10-2017 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wartenberg7 (Post 2000870)
I see we´re right in the middle of that order discussion again...:lol:

Why should it be so unlikely for William and Catherine to receive the order of Isabella the Catholic? This order, obviously not a very high ranking spanish order, was even bestowed on Miss Maxima Zorreguieta BEFORE she got married to the then Prince of Orange!
So why shouldn´t a Prince and Princess of the UK not receive this order then (except the current King of Spain would have changed the order policy of his father)


The argument was not mine, but rather made by our fellow Spanish posters like Lula and was based, I suppose, in the principle of reciprocity. Since Queen Letizia is not getting any British order, there would be no reason for King Felipe to give orders to W&K.

vkrish 07-10-2017 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dman (Post 2000861)
I really do try not to think about any orders for Catherine and that she attends events where it should be worn. I think it's totally beyond ridiculous she don't have anything yet.

I'll just be happy she and William are at the banquet.

Just yesterday I was thinking why you have not started this yet..:flowers:

Mbruno 07-10-2017 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY (Post 2000888)
UK coverage - some of what I wrote in another post here:


Getty Images will of course publish many videos and pictures, ITN SOURCE will also publish some videos, Daily Fail vill publish articles with many pictures and we may see some clips on BBC One/ITV television news.

But the big question (to me) is whether BBC News Channel (Launched 1997) and Sky News (Launched 1989) will have live coverage.

Coverage by BBC News Channel and Sky News on previous state visits:

State Visit from Japan in May 1998: Live coverage from the carriage procession, the state banquet and other events.

State visit from China in October 1999: Live coverage from the carriage procession, the state banquet and other events.

State visit from the United States in November 2003: Live coverage from the arrival at Buckingham Palace, the state banquet and other events.

State visit from China in November 2005: Live coverage from the carriage procession, the state banquet and other events.

State visit from the United States in May 2011: Live coverage from the arrival at Buckingham Palace, the state banquet and other events.

State Visit from Ireland in April 2014: Live coverage from the carriage procession, the state banquet and other events.

State visit from China in October 2015: Live coverage from the carriage procession, the state banquet and other events.

There was also live coverage on the Internet for the American, Irish and Chinese state visits in 2011, 2014 and 2015.

Other state visits: Nothing, and I think (unfortunately) that BBC/Sky will not see Spain as important enough to have live coverage.

And that has nothing to do with the palace allowing it or not - When the Norwegian royal family visited the UK in 2005, Norwegian television sent live from the events, and the coverage was generaly very large. In the UK? Nothing at all.

I believe there will be coverage on the Spanish TV too. I was watching the newscast this morning on TVE's international channel and they had a long report on the upcoming state visit with details about the schedule.

Quote:


I think we have to wait which royal members will receive an royal order and who not. Honestly i dont think W&C will receive an order, as much i remember also Princess Diana received no Order during the spanish state visit in 1986.
Princess Diana didn't get any Spanish order in 1986, but the Queen, Prince Philip and Prince Charles did. By contrast, only King Juan Carlos got a decoration from the Queen, and it was "only " the Royal Victorian Chain. Juan Carlos was not made a Knight of the Garter until 1988, when Queen Elizabeth II also got in return the Order of the Golden Fleece (previously, she had received the grand cross with collar of the Order of Charles III in 1986).

As of now, there is no "higher" Spanish decoration that Queen Elizabeth II could get. Prince Philip or Prince Charles, on the other hand, already have the grand cross of the Order of Carlos III and , as Lula explained, cannot be awarded the collar, which is reserved to Heads of State. Unless either Philip or Charles get the Golden Fleece, which is very unlikely, the next possible candidates for a Spanish order would be Camilla and/or the Cambridges. My bet is on at least Camilla getting the grand cross of Isabella the Catholic, which would be lower than the order her husband has.

I must say I am really interested in this particular state visit. Back when Spain was still a major European and world power (basically from the 16th century until the early 19th century), England (later Britain) and Spain were frequently at odds with each other, when not openly at war. In the 19th century, however, Spain lost most of its colonial empire and began its long decline, which intensified further in the early 20th century. Spain was no longer a threat or a competitor to the all-powerful Victorian Britain, which turned its attention then to other more "important" nations that could be potential threats like France, Russia and, later, Germany.

Nowadays, although the UK is still a more influential military and geopolitical power than Spain, I see the relationship between the two countries back on a more level playing field, especially with the UK leaving the EU and getting weaker in the process. It is still not an especially warm relationship though, particularly with the lingering Gilbraltar issue and now Brexit, and I am eager to see how the two sovereigns (the very experienced Queen Elizabeth and the young, but highly trained King Felipe) will handle that tension.

AnaC 07-10-2017 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wartenberg7 (Post 2000870)
I see we´re right in the middle of that order discussion again...:lol:

Why should it be so unlikely for William and Catherine to receive the order of Isabella the Catholic? This order, obviously not a very high ranking spanish order, was even bestowed on Miss Maxima Zorreguieta BEFORE she got married to the then Prince of Orange!
So why shouldn´t a Prince and Princess of the UK not receive this order then (except the current King of Spain would have changed the order policy of his father)

This order is very high ranking...It's the second order in importance behind the Order of Charles III(*) and is the highest order many heads of state receive from Spain. It's also the only Spanish order Elena and Cristina (the then King's own daughters) had for many years, and the order non-heirs or monarchs and consorts from other Royal Families receive from the Spanish King. Máxima was hardly anyone, she was taking part in a State Visit as the fiancee of the Crown Prince, in weeks she would have been the Crown Princess of the Netherlands, it was an exceptional situation.

(*) I'm not counting the Golden Fleece, which is in a category of its own.

There's no doubt in my mind that Kate is not going to receive a Spanish order. The then Princess of Wales didn't receive a Spanish order in the 1980s. Neither of the Infantas (who took part in parts of the two State Visits to and from the UK) received a British order either, so I don't think it's likely William or Harry would receive one. In my opinion William may be the only surprise since he's an exception like Máxima, being as he is the next Prince of Wales.

Dman 07-10-2017 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkrish (Post 2000879)
Just yesterday I was thinking why you have not started this yet..:flowers:

Due to blood pressure reasons, I've decided to not really think about it. ;)

Mbruno 07-10-2017 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnaC (Post 2000902)
There's no doubt in my mind that Kate is not going to receive a Spanish order. The then Princess of Wales didn't receive a Spanish order in the 1980s. Neither of the Infantas (who took part in parts of the two State Visits to and from the UK) received a British order either, so I don't think it's likely William or Harry would receive one.

It is hardly surprising that the Infantas didn't get any British order because, as I said, QEII normally only decorates kings , reigning queens, or a similar Head of State; other visiting royal family members, including queen consorts and crown princes, usually get nothing from her !

Other European monarchs, however, are far more generous. Not only do they give out orders to queen consorts, but also to crown princes and their wives, and to several junior royals, such as younger children or siblings of the monarch and their respective wives. I suppose King Felipe could follow a "tit-for-tat" policy, or he could be more magnanimous and bestow an honor on Camilla or William (maybe not Kate) as a gesture of good will.

muriel 07-10-2017 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno (Post 2000913)
It is hardly surprising that the Infantas didn't get any British order because, as I said, QEII normally only decorates kings , reigning queens, or a similar Head of State; other visiting royal family members, including queen consorts and crown princes, usually get nothing from her !

Other European monarchs, however, are far more generous. Not only do they give out orders to queen consorts, but also to crown princes and their wives, and to several junior royals, such as younger children or siblings of the monarch and their respective wives. I suppose King Felipe could follow a "tit-for-tat" policy, or he could be more magnanimous and bestow an honor on Camilla or William (maybe not Kate) as a gesture of good will.

I do hope Camilla receives a Spanish order.

An Ard Ri 07-10-2017 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muriel (Post 2000916)
I do hope Camilla receives a Spanish order.

Yes I do too as far as I'm aware the Duchess doesn't have any foreign royal orders?

cepe 07-10-2017 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri (Post 2000920)
Yes I do too as far as I'm aware the Duchess doesn't have any foreign royal orders?

According to Wiki, she has 2

Companion of the Order of the Star of Melanesia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_...r_of_Melanesia


Grand Cross of the National Order of Merit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Merit_(France)

VictoriaB 07-10-2017 06:18 PM

And just think - this whole royal family order thing will start again if Meghan marries Harry - oh what joy!!!!

Rudolph 07-10-2017 06:48 PM

I think if William takes part in the banquet, he will receive an order

Pranter 07-10-2017 07:23 PM

Just curious Rudolph...did he get any from previous banquets? Like when the Chinese came etc?


LaRae

AdmirerUS 07-10-2017 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cepe (Post 2000923)
According to Wiki, she has 2

Companion of the Order of the Star of Melanesia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_...r_of_Melanesia


Grand Cross of the National Order of Merit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Merit_(France)

That bring up something about orders that had not yet occurred to me. Do the majority of royals get a home country order first, before foreign? Or is it the other way around or 50:50. I'll have to start paying attention and will post something in the Orders Thread.

My guess, of course is that it has the most to do with State Visits and when one starts participating in them. And also, where you are in line of succession. Excepting the babies in Sweden, of course. :smile:

And I picture Catherine and William as the kind of parents that show the kids the Orders and explain the sashes and that if they are good, they too will have some someday. Having said that, I do realize it sounds completely romantic.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:21 AM.

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019
Jelsoft Enterprises