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yvr girl 04-23-2007 05:15 PM

Trust Funds for the Queen's Children and Grandchildren
 
Does anyone have any idea what has been set up for Ann, Andrew and Edward? Will they end up like the Kents and Gloucesters - forced to sell homes because they can't afford them any longer? Fergie seems to indicate that Andrew doesn't have much money, but I find that hard to believe. I can't imagine the Queen not taking care of her children. I know Prince Charles has nothing to worry about.

selrahc4 04-23-2007 05:48 PM

Well, the current Kents and Gloucesters are grandchildren of a sovereign, not children. There would be natural dilution of funds through splitting between heirs and unforeseen inflation, unless the families were especially fortunate in investments and/or income-producing ventures.

I'm sure the Queen's children are well provided for by her, and with an eye to future generations as far as the future can be anticipated. But it would be normal that the same thing might happen to the next generation as did the Kents/Gloucesters.

Sarah probably implies that Andrew can't provide what his daughters need and that they depend on her just to aggrandize herself. You don't see Anne or Edward and their families hurting, do you? Andrew would be the same.

princess olga 04-23-2007 08:39 PM

Fascinating topic - not only re the British Royal Fam, but all the others as well.

While I realize full well that the last people probably we should ever feel sorry for are the privileged blue bloods, it always seems so, well, unfair to me that the siblings of the oldest child and heir to whichever throne, that the siblings seem to end up with the shorter end of the stick.

It makes me wonder if there might be special arrangements in place that these families have for these kinds of situations. Talking about one's love life these days is less of a social taboo than discussing one's finances - heck, I already don't ask my friends what they make for salary etc, let alone that I know how i.e. Princess Michael makes ends meet besides selling the occasional book and selling her 'pile' in the country.

I remember that Constantijn of the Netherlands, second in line to the Dutch throne (I mean de facto, until Amalia'd turn 18), once remarked that he has to work for a living. While that may be a slight exaggeration, the fact remains the Dutch taxpayer doesn't give him a penny. Same perhaps later with i.e. Harry of England. And already with Zara, Peter, etc etc.
Fascinating topic because there is a circle of folks who are closely related to the people occupying the throne, but who have to pay their own way to the party. And how do they manage to do that? Or are some of them de facto 'poor' in comparison and do they just keep up appearances, which seems quite an expensive proposition?

branchg 04-30-2007 08:23 AM

All of The Queen's children have trust funds, as do her grandchildren. They are designed to provide an income, but are not likely to generate huge amounts of money individually. Once Charles becomes King, the Queen Mother's fortune (about $10 million in trust) will be distributed directly to her grandchildren in equal shares.

The fortune of the Sovereign is generally accumulated for the next Sovereign in order to preserve the financial independence of the monarchy.

Duchess 04-30-2007 10:30 AM

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the sovereirn's fortune looked at in 2 aspects: her private fortune and the monies accumulated through the public? her private fortune is split according to her own wishes but aren't the assets that belong to the crown passed on only to the heir?

HRH Kimetha 04-30-2007 01:56 PM

What an interesting subject. I keep hearing about the Queen's personal wealth at about $2billion. How accurate would that be?

branchg 04-30-2007 04:19 PM

The Sovereign's fortune is limited to the personal property of The Queen, including her jewels, the Royal Art Collection, Balmoral, Sandringham and her private investments. These are estimated to be worth approximately $650 million in total.

The rest of the fortune belongs to The Crown and is considered to be in trust for the monarchy. Although technically, the Sovereign is entitled to the Duchy of Lancaster revenues, the royal palaces and aircraft, these assets are granted by Parliament's consent for use by the Sovereign.

Duchess 04-30-2007 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by branchg
The Sovereign's fortune is limited to the personal property of The Queen, including her jewels,... .

you've probably answered this before but here goes:

isn't jewelry given as official state gifts, the property of the crown? i'm assuming when you say "jewels" you're referring to items that she's purchased privately or have been passed down from family?

branchg 04-30-2007 07:19 PM

All gifts of jewelry remain the private property of The Queen until she designates them otherwise. As a practical rule, she is very likely to leave any jewels given to her by other heads of state (the Saudi diamond necklaces) or governments (the Coronation Aquamarine Parure from Brazil) as part of the Crown Collection after her death.

All of her other jewels have been handed down and are inherited by the next Sovereign as their personal property.

Elspeth 04-30-2007 07:50 PM

Does that include the jewels designated by Queen Victoria for use by future Queens?

Warren 05-01-2007 07:13 AM

The Crown Jewellery
 
Excluding the Crown Jewels (ie the jewels in the Tower) there are just two categories: Jewels left to (or given to) the Crown by Queen Victoria, Queen Mary and King George V; and the rest, which are private property.

source: Suzy Menkes, "The Royal Jewels", Third edition 1988, Appendix A 'The Crown Jewellery'.
Menkes has given her sources as Twining Papers, Goldsmith's Hall Library; and The Royal Library, Windsor.

...................................................................The Crown Jewellery

Jewels left to the Crown by Queen Victoria:
The Diamond Diadem of George IV
Brilliant Regal Tiara (made in 1855 to hold the Koh-i-noor; diamonds remounted for Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother's Crown; the four detachable anthemions from the Regal Indian tiara later forming what is now the Countess of Wessex wedding tiara)
Regal Indian Tiara
The Timur Ruby
The Diamond Collet Necklace
Two Diamond Collet Necklace
Diamond Fringe Necklace (stones from George III)
Duchess of Kent Amethysts
three Bow Brooches
Queen Victoria's Sapphire Brooch
Presents from the Prince Consort. These items were all left to Edward VII by Queen Victoria in her will, to be considered "as belonging to the Crown and to be worn by all future Queens in right of it", being bracelets, brooches, pins, and a Scottish pebble set as a brooch.
A collection of jewelled cockades, girdles, swords, orders, rings, bracelets, brooches, earrings, opals, pearls, mementoes, minatures etc etc.

Queen Mary gave to the Crown:
3 Indian armlets (1912)
Indian diamond, pearl, emerald and ruby necklace (1926)

Ring sent to Tower by Queen Mary 1919 and added to the Regalia:
Sapphire ring with ruby cross and diamonds given to Queen Victoria by her mother the Duchess of Kent in 1838

King George V gave to the Crown:
Snap of the Indian necklace (see above) made of a ruby ring given to Queen Victoria by a Maharajah.

Based on this list, and assuming it is largely accurate, the vast bulk of the Windsor jewel collection is private property, and strictly "hands off!". :biggrin:
x

branchg 05-01-2007 08:10 AM

Some additional pieces were probably designated by Queen Mary in her will as belonging to the Crown to be worn by Queens in right of it, but we don't know for sure.

Claire 05-02-2007 03:44 PM

I don't know if the royals have trust funds in the same way we see American trust fund babies as having trusts. I believe that they were all given shares which matured at various stages of their lives.
There is also a big difference in what the royals have and will never have. When George VI dies, he left money in trust for Anne and Charles, not Andrew, Edward, Sarah and David simply because they didn't exist. A lot was made in the 1980's when the Queen brought Diana shares in the Royal Mail. It can only be guessed that various royals own shares in other companies' worldwide and nationally.
I was once told that the arguement behind the Prince of Wales ownship of his estates was that he must collect enough money to look after the royal family in his care. I don't think the Queen ever had the benfit of those estates.

I also doubt the Queen will divide her estate equally.
Prince Charles, William and Harry have no need for it and she will pass it down to the other royals, who will probably have to pay double the amount in inheritance tax anyway.

selrahc4 05-07-2007 05:05 PM

The Queen will leave the bulk of her estate to the next sovereign as has been the case for years and years.

Claire 05-08-2007 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selrahc4
The Queen will leave the bulk of her estate to the next sovereign as has been the case for years and years.

Sorry, problem of translation - estate in our legal term means material wealth (money, bonds and stocks), not property.

HRH Kimetha 05-08-2007 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire
I was once told that the arguement behind the Prince of Wales ownship of his estates was that he must collect enough money to look after the royal family in his care. I don't think the Queen ever had the benfit of those estates.

Besides the Duchess, William and Harry, who else in the Royal Family does the Prince have in his care?

Iluvbertie 05-09-2007 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRH Kimetha
Besides the Duchess, William and Harry, who else in the Royal Family does the Prince have in his care?

At the moment no one officially but he will also be responsible for wives and children of William and Harry during the lifetime of his mother.

Warren 05-09-2007 05:42 AM

In 2005/2006 the Prince's income from the Duchy of Cornwall was 14.1 million, and 10.8 million after tax.
There will be no need for the Waleses to watch the pennies, and in any case William and Harry have their own considerable fortunes.

selrahc4 05-10-2007 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire
Sorry, problem of translation - estate in our legal term means material wealth (money, bonds and stocks), not property.

I also meant money, bonds, stocks, and other personal property in my post, along with real estate. She will leave most of all of these things to the next sovereign. There are two reasons: Tradition and the fact that inheritance left from sovereign to sovereign is exempt from inheritance taxes.

branchg 05-11-2007 08:34 AM

William and Harry are both receiving a considerable amount of money from their trusts and are no longer supported by Prince Charles.


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