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ryo 11-10-2003 08:41 PM

Kievan Rus' - powerful medieval State
Does anybody got any info and photos(paintings) about them?

cuervo 11-11-2003 07:59 AM


Originally posted by ryo@Nov 10th, 2003 - 8:41 pm
Does anybody got any info and photos(paintings) about them?
Can you read Russian??if you do,then go to and find it out!!

ryo 11-15-2003 06:09 PM

Hi, cuervo,
I checked the page, however, this is the current Russian Federation site, and I didn't find any links that are related to this topic. I should probably start doing some serious reseach on it, in order to post something here. But anyway, if you see something, please post it as well. ;)

cuervo 11-16-2003 01:42 AM

Hi ryo,where are you from??

Kievan Rus were among the first leaves of rus under czar Rurik who was an Irish or Celt iam not sure!!All I have seen of them is a monument in kiiv!!Well,just in case i have created a club in pathfinder,and it is all about RUSSIA!You can find it in: if you have any problems don't hesitate to iform me...

ryo 11-17-2003 08:03 PM


I found in an history book that Riurik was a viking(norman). He led a group of Normans and established Novgorod and then Kiiv(so Russians aren't purely slavs! But now more than a thousand years passed and who cares!).
The Pathfinder sounds interesting, but I cannot read Greek. Is there somewhere to click for English?
Well, I'm from japan :ninja: , but living in Poland!

cuervo 11-19-2003 01:53 PM

The most of the Russians belong to slavian leafs!!Therewere many mixtures those years with Mongols, Tatars,Fins,Greeks(in the south),as well as in their recent history,but Russian and Ukrain people are of the same race!Slavonik!Can you please tell me,to wich race Normandians belonged???

ryo 11-22-2003 09:40 PM

The Normans are Northern-Germanics. ;) They were most powerful around 9~12 centuries.
So the Russians are really mixed! They live in the middle of a huge continent, so it makes sense. But in this case they should never fight with any other people because they might have shared blood in the past. Are you, by chance, of a Slavic origin?

cuervo 11-23-2003 04:58 PM

About Normans!!!How come they are of north germanic origination,once they were rulers of the Two -Cecilia's Kingdom??(Southern Italy)!I thought they were of Celtic origination,sullariers of various kings of the west!!They end up roulers of two Sicelias,a small territory in western water frontiers of Byzantioum!!!Normandy is in north France isn't it???So whence Northern german??Imean why not Nor-th Scotch-man or Nor-thern Irishman??..).).)

ryo 11-25-2003 08:36 PM

I just wanted to let you know that "Norman" itself is a Germanic word! :P
So the Normans were quite ambitious people and travelled so far to conquer several places in Europe(originally their home was Scandinavia and around Jutland pen.). But they were not Celtic, I guess.
Not just Normans but other Germanic people also travelled all over Europe and settled down in different places--some even passed through Greece(maybe you know about this). Some of the Germanics could have decided to stay there, and if so, people in your country has some Germanic blood? Maybe you!

ryo 12-03-2003 08:08 PM

I don't know where cuervo's been! I saw he was also active in Greek RF forum, but I guess not lately. Maybe he's out of town.

Why is your country called Monte Negro where you have a slavic name Crni gora? Are the Montenegrians(?) of Latin origin? Or Slavic? Are you living in Italiy for a long time? Do you visit home at all?
Yes I see your country had to change the border quite often from one day to another. It's difficult to imagine for me how it was like. Japan was geographycally isolated and such drastic occupations didn't really occur.

Tatars, I think, were originally from somewhere China. Not sure, though.
I checked a history book here, and it says Huns who were living around Volga decided move west(4th century), which chased the Germans away and the Germans had to find places to settle down in western part of Europe. Some of them were originally from north of the Black Sea.
If you think about it, it's quite interesting--now "Germany"is one not-so-big country, but probably everybody in Europe has a little bit or more of Germanic blood! Literally, they are all brothers! I'm for mixing. People all should mix.

I know I'm off the topic. This supposed to be a Kievan Rus....! :flower:

ryo 12-04-2003 10:26 AM

Kyyevo-Pecherska Lavra (Calvin Cave Monastery).
A Ukrainian Orthodox monastery founded in 1051 by the monks Antoniy and Feodosiy. In the 11th century it became the center for the expansion and consolidation of Christianity in Calvin Rus'-Ukraine. The chroniclers Nykon, Nestor, Sylvester, the artists Alimpiy, Hryhoriy, and the doctor, Ahapit, at one time worked in the monastery. In 1240 it was looted and destroyed by the Tatar-Mongol armies of Baty. The monastery was again destroyed in 1480. In 1615 an imprimery was located at the monastery. In the late 16th century it was designated a Lavra (monastery). The architectural ensemble attained completion in the mid-18th century. The majority of the structures is built in the Ukrainian Baroque style. The ensemble is organically linked to the relief and forms a beautiful and majestic silhouette of Kyiv from the Dnipro River side. In 1926 the Calvin Cave Historical-Cultural Preserve was established on the premises of the monastery.

moody 12-05-2003 08:49 AM

Isn't it the start of Ukrainian History???

ryo 12-06-2003 11:26 AM

Okay, okay, a little messed up. :(

The norman Rurik established Novgorod in 862, and then he added(occupied) southern area and started Kiev in 882. The name "Rus" indicated those Normans. Probably named after "Ru"rik. I'm guessing. After the years passed and they were Slavonized.
In 989 prince VladimirI(980-1015) christianized Kiev. Before Christianizing his country, he did a great research on different religions, but as for the occation that he welcomed a wife from Byzantium--the sister of the Emperor--, he choose Christianity.

I'll be back in a while! Where are you cuervo?

moody 12-11-2003 01:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
:ninja: Kniaj RURIC

ryo 12-11-2003 07:40 PM

I'm glad to see his face finally! :P

Rurik didn't really govern Kievan Rus. His retainer Oleg established the country together with Rurik's son Igor, who became the first prince at the beginning of 10th century. VladimirI was Igol's grandson.

The town of Kiev already existed since the end of 5th century, although it must have been quite small back then.

ryo 01-04-2004 07:27 PM

The best(or the only) source on Kievan Rus is "The Chronicles"("Letopisi" or "Povisc' Bremennich Lit") written in 11th and 12th century by Nestor and other monks. I've read it but, unfortunatelly, it was many years ago and I don't have the book right now. :( But here you go! Nice n' brief! Copied from the Colombian Encyclopeia on the net. :P

Kievan Rus , medieval state of the Eastern Slavs. It was the earliest predecessor of modern Ukraine and Russia. Flourishing from the 10th to the 13th cent., it included nearly all of present-day Ukraine and Belarus and part of NW European Russia, extending as far N as Novgorod and Vladimir. According to the Russian Primary Chronicle, a medieval history, the Varangian Rurik established himself at Novgorod c.862 and founded a dynasty. His successor, Oleg or Oleh (d. c.912), shifted his attention to the south, seized Kiev (c.879), and established the new Kievan state. The Varangians were also known as Rus or Rhos; it is possible that this name was early extended to the Slavs of the Kievan state, which became known as Kievan Rus. Other theories trace the name Rus to a Slavic origin.

Oleg united the Eastern Slavs and freed them from the suzerainty of the Khazars. His successors were Igor or Ihor (reigned 912–45) and Igor's widow, St. Olga or Olha, who was regent until about 962. Under Olga's son, Sviatoslav or Svyatoslav (d. 972), the Khazars were crushed, and Kievan power was extended to the lower Volga and N Caucasus. Christianity was introduced by Vladimir I or Volodymyr I (reigned 980–1015), who adopted (c.989) Greek Orthodoxy from the Byzantines. The reign (1019–54) of Vladimir's son, Yaroslav the Wise, represented the political and cultural apex of Kievan Rus.

After his death the state was divided into principalities ruled by his sons; this soon led to civil strife. A last effort for unity was made by Vladimir II or Volodymyr II (reigned 1113–25), but the perpetual princely strife and the devastating raids of the nomadic Cumans soon ended the supremacy of Kiev. In the middle of the 12th cent. a number of local centers of power developed: Halych in the west, Novgorod in the north, Vladimir-Suzdal (see Vladimir) in the northwest, and Kiev in the south. In 1169, Kiev was sacked and pillaged by the armies of Andrei Bogolubsky of Suzdal, and the final blow to the Kievan state came with the Mongol invasion (1237–40).

Layla1971 09-23-2005 05:25 AM

I hate to say it, but all posters have been partly or completely WRONG throughout this ENTIRE thread!:( :rolleyes:

Anyone care to take up the conversation again?:confused:

If not that's okay but, I will still post the facts later on.:) :)

Layla1971 09-29-2005 10:01 AM

Kievan Rus' was the early, mostly East Slavic state dominated by the city of Kiev, from about 880 to the mid-12th century.

According to the Primary Chronicle, the earliest chronicle of Kievan Rus', a Verangian (Viking) named Rurik first established himself in Novgorod in about 860 before moving south and extending his authority to Kiev.

There are two theories:

The first being the Normanist theory - It says the Varangian people originated in Scandinavia, most possibly Sweden, they may have tried to take control of or wage war with four tribes: Chuds, Slavs, Merians and Krivichs.
These tribes who were forced to pay tribute to the Varangian peoples around 859 and in 862 the tribes rebelled against the Varangians and drove them back to beyond the Baltic Sea, back towards Scandinavia, refusing to pay any further tribute and decided to govern themselves.

But apparently there wasn’t any law among the tribes and war ensued, pitting tribe against tribe.

They allegedly said amongst themselves ‘let us seek a prince who may rule over us, and judge us according to custom’, thus they went overseas to the Varangians, the Rus’.

These particular Varangians were known as Rus’, just as some are called Swedes and others Normans and Angles and still Gotlanders.

The Chuds, the Slavs (Merians were assimilated by the Slavs, but when?), the Krivichs and the Ves, then said to the Rus’, ‘Our land is great and rich, but there is no order in it. Come reign as our princes, rule over us’.

Three brothers, with their kinfolk, were selected. Led by Rurik and his brothers Truvor and Sineus all the Rus migrated.

Though many historians view these 9th century Varangians as legendary, the real settlement of Aldeigjuborg (now Staraya Lodoga) was associated with the name of Rurik, and established around Lake Lodoga in the 8th century. Western history has it that these Scandinavians founded Kievan Rus' and gave their name to the land, 'Russia'. Many Slavic scholars are opposed to this theory of Western influence and have suggested alternative theories for this part of Russian history.

The Varangian ruling classes of the two powerful city-states of Novgorod and Kiev were eventually Slavicized, but Old Norse was spoken in Novgorod until the 13th century, and a Varangian mercenary force continued in the service of the Byzantine Emperors.

The anti-Normanist theory is -
From one of two rivers in Ukraine (near Kiev and Pereyaslav), Ros and Rusna, whose names are derived from a postulated Slavic term for water, akin to rosa (dew), rusalka (mermaid), ruslo (stream bed).

A Slavic word rusiy (slightly red-haired), cognate with ryzhiy (red-haired) and English red.

A postulated proto-Slavic word for bear, cognate with arctos and ursus.

The Iranian tribe of the Roxolani (from the Old Persian, rokhs).

The fact that Vikings used a particular name for the area, Gardar ("Cities"), is presented as an argument against the Normanist theory. The Norse sagas demonstrate that the Vikings' knowledge of Eastern Slavic lands was slight. For instance, they usually considered not Kiev ("Kaenugardr") but Novgorod ("Holmgardr") as the capital of Rus.

According to F. Donald Logan (The Vikings in History, cit. Montgomery, p. 24), "in 839, the Rus' were Swedes. In 1043, the Rus' were Slavs". The Scandinavians were completely absorbed and, unlike their brethren in England and in Normandy, they left little cultural heritage in Eastern Europe.

This almost complete absence of cultural traces (besides several names, as discussed above, and arguably the veche-system of Novgorod) is remarkable, and the Slavicists therefore call the Vikings "cultural chameleons", who came, ruled and then disappeared, leaving little cultural trace in Eastern Europe. This seems to suggest that these Rus' were a small group, less than a people in the nation sense of the word; less than an ethnos.

This conclusion leads Slavicists to deny or reinterpret the Primary Chronicle, which claims that the Danish (or Swedish) Rus' were "invited". They claim that Nestor, a putative author of the Chronicle, was biased against the pro-Greek party of Vladimir Monomakh and supported the pro-Scandinavian party of the ruling Prince Svyatopolk. They cite Nestor's factual inaccuracies as pro-Scandinavian manipulations and compare his account of Rurik's(tribes allegedly taken over by the Varangians) invitation with numerous similar stories found in folklore around the world.

Boris Rybakov, a prominent Soviet historian, felt that the cultural level of the Verangians could not have warranted an invitation from the equally culturally advanced Slavs.

cuervo 10-07-2005 08:47 PM

What I know
is that Rurik's Varagians called by other Scandinavian tribes 'Rus'from a word similar to 'row'or the 'one who rows':confused:because they were rowing up and down Baltica sea,before they be established in Kiev....

Byzantine Emperors ued Varagians in many campaigns,and some of them riched ranks and previledges of generals or even princes(despotes)of areas in Byzantioum.....

Layla1971 10-09-2005 06:44 AM

What I know
Here is a rather lengthy, but informative account of the Verangian guard in the Byzantine Empire:
Varangians first appear in the Byzantine world in 839, when the emperor Theophilus negotiated with the Varangians, whom he called Rhos, to provide a few mercenaries for his army. Although the Varangians often had peaceful trading relations with the Byzantines, they sometimes led attacks against Constantinople. Such attacks came in 860, 907, 911, 941, 945, 971, and finally 1043. These raids were successful only in causing the Byzantines to re-arrange their trading arrangements; militarily, the Varangians were always defeated by the superior Byzantine forces, especially by the use of Greek fire.

The Varangians served with Dalmatians as marines in naval expeditions against Crete in 902 and again in 949 under Konstantinos Porphyrogenitos. Further, they were employed in a land campaign in Syria in 955. This service elevated their rank from members of the Great Companions to mercenaries to the Imperial Guard.

Under Basil II these were separated into a new force known as the Varangian Guard in 988 upon Kievan prince Vladimir's conversion. In exchange for marriage with Basil's sister Anna, Vladimir gave the emperor 6,000 men to use as his personal bodyguard - although whether these were initially Varangians or Slavs has been the matter of some scholarly debate. In any case, new recruits from as far abroad as Sweden, Denmark, Norway and England gave a predominently Scandinavian cast to the organization until the late 11th century.

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