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-   -   A marriage between Prince Hisahito and Princess Aiko? (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f126/a-marriage-between-prince-hisahito-and-princess-aiko-11439.html)

lotus 01-30-2007 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianohabebi
You're correct Princess Robijn. From what I have been told by my professor, Japan has had eight empresses since from around 660 BC.

Yes, In the history of Japan, there are eight empresses. But the problem is... some of them became the empresses when their sons were child. When their sons grew up, these empresses gave up the throne to their sons. The other empresses never get married, when they died, they passed the throne to their brother or cousin.

Princess Robijn 01-30-2007 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotus
But the problem is... some of them became the empresses when their sons were child. When their sons grew up, these empresses gave up the throne to their sons. The other empresses never get married, when they died, they passed the throne to their brother or cousin.

So what's the problem!

Vanesa 01-30-2007 09:04 PM

I should like such a marriage! However, we must not push the young people to marry to each other. They must only marry IF they are in love...In mutual love I mean. All the "interest marriages" were a complete disaster, even if they seemed to be a great solution in the moment they were concerted.

Here, we must hear Princess Aiko and Prince Hisahito's opinions. That's for sure. :rolleyes:

Vanesa.

otty 01-31-2007 06:30 AM

I don't think it will happen in this era, but who knows??? The crown prince of Thailand also married to his cousin.

lotus 01-31-2007 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
So what's the problem!

I mean, In the history of Japan, every emperor is from paternal line. That's why some Japanese disapprove Princess Aiko become the Empress. If Princess Aiko become the Empress, and she get married, the throne line waill become maternal line.

Princess Robijn 01-31-2007 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotus
I mean, In the history of Japan, every emperor is from paternal line. That's why some Japanese disapprove Princess Aiko become the Empress. If Princess Aiko become the Empress, and she get married, the throne line waill become maternal line.

Didn't you say "some of them became the empresses when their sons were child." Could that not happen to Princess Aiko and would that not be the same??

Elspeth 01-31-2007 02:09 PM

It would only be the same if she was married to a man who was a descendant of one of the branches of the royal family himself. If she had a son by a commoner, that son wouldn't be from the imperial family in the paternal line. And apparently the paternal line is the only one that counts, even though they're supposed to have descended from a goddess.

kimebear 01-31-2007 05:40 PM

While I certainly don't hope that this is the outcome, it would not be inconceivable if it did. Within the small confines of the Imperial Palace Aiko and Hisahito may be raised with the definite intention of them marrying. With so little outside company, they could possibly fall in love with each other. The current situation with the Japanese throne has no precedent given the enormous task of holding to traditions while appeasing a modernizing population. The only "gross" factor arising out of such a marriage is our own recoiling at the thought of marrying and conceiving children with our own first cousins. It is just not done anymore with any regularity since there is no longer a widespread practice of "keeping the money in the family". Biologically speaking, as long as the parents of the children involved do not all share a common ancestry, there is no more danger to their child in defect than to any other child. The only resulting factor being a higher risk of any disease history that is common to the related parents. Don't think for one minute that the IHA has not thought about this seriously as a solution.

lilytornado 01-31-2007 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimebear
While I certainly don't hope that this is the outcome, it would not be inconceivable if it did. Within the small confines of the Imperial Palace Aiko and Hisahito may be raised with the definite intention of them marrying. With so little outside company, they could possibly fall in love with each other. The current situation with the Japanese throne has no precedent given the enormous task of holding to traditions while appeasing a modernizing population. The only "gross" factor arising out of such a marriage is our own recoiling at the thought of marrying and conceiving children with our own first cousins. It is just not done anymore with any regularity since there is no longer a widespread practice of "keeping the money in the family". Biologically speaking, as long as the parents of the children involved do not all share a common ancestry, there is no more danger to their child in defect than to any other child. The only resulting factor being a higher risk of any disease history that is common to the related parents. Don't think for one minute that the IHA has not thought about this seriously as a solution.

Concerning the marriage of first cousins, there are different traditions in different countries. It is not "gross" in all countries. I donīt know the situation in Japan though.

kimebear 01-31-2007 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilytornado
Concerning the marriage of first cousins, there are different traditions in different countries. It is not "gross" in all countries. I donīt know the situation in Japan though.

The only problem I have with it is the possibility of a forced marriage if there is no love between them. I don't think that first cousins marrying is gross under those circumstances. I just don't think it should become a custom generation after generation because of the eventual biological breakdown.

lilytornado 01-31-2007 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimebear
The only problem I have with it is the possibility of a forced marriage if there is no love between them. I don't think that first cousins marrying is gross under those circumstances. I just don't think it should become a custom generation after generation because of the eventual biological breakdown.

Yes, there I have the same opinion. Marriage never should be forced and Cousin marriage should be no custom generation after generation because of the eventual biological breakdown.
Only if they loved each other, they should marry. Yes, it might be weird to marry someone you know since you are little, but the same thing occures if you marry any friend you are very close since you were little.
There are some cousins (I happen to know some) that lived in different countries while growing up, got to know each other as adults, fell in love and married.

dragonsfire8 01-31-2007 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimebear
The only problem I have with it is the possibility of a forced marriage if there is no love between them. I don't think that first cousins marrying is gross under those circumstances. I just don't think it should become a custom generation after generation because of the eventual biological breakdown.

Very true. With the current situation, the supposed "sibling rivalry" between Crown Prince Naruhito's & Prince Akishino's families on top of the succession crisis, a marriage between two families won't solve the tension and othe problems between the two sides. However, I also would not be surprised if there will be a forced marriage...I really can see the IHA going to this extreme. I really feel sorry for the the kids and their parents.:sad:

lilytornado 01-31-2007 08:21 PM

I have the feeling that the future for both Hisahito and Aiko wonīt be easy.. Aiko will either be Empress (I don't think so but who knows) and facing all the difficulties being a female, finding a partner etc, or facing the same fate her aunt Sayako does.
With Hisahito the same thing... all this pressure of being the only imperial heir...it might be lonely for him as well growing up, and then he has to find a suitable crown princess...

Vanesa 01-31-2007 10:12 PM

Well, yes. I share your opinions: any forced marraige will be a disaster, within first Cousins or not. At least for me, only love marriages are acceptable...But of course, Japanese Royals will not pay any attention to me and my wishes! :lol:

Vanesa.

Princess Robijn 02-01-2007 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspeth
It would only be the same if she was married to a man who was a descendant of one of the branches of the royal family himself. If she had a son by a commoner, that son wouldn't be from the imperial family in the paternal line. And apparently the paternal line is the only one that counts, even though they're supposed to have descended from a goddess.

Good point, I didn't think of that..

lotus 02-01-2007 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
Didn't you say "some of them became the empresses when their sons were child." Could that not happen to Princess Aiko and would that not be the same??

These Empresses are the wife of Emperor. When the Emperor died, and their son is child, the empress(wife of Emperor) ascend the throne. When her son grow up, she abdicated the throne.

Princess Aiko is a "Princess" , not the wife of Emperor. So this situation would not happen to Princess Aiko.

Lox 02-02-2007 06:52 AM

Well, marriages between cousins is legal in Japan, and seems to be quite common. The frequency of cousin marriages in Japan is about 4 in 1000.

The important question is fertility. Hisahitos future wife MUST be able to have children. What if Aiko has inherited some of her mothers problems in this area (if it's possible to inherit these problems)?

wymanda 02-02-2007 08:03 AM

I'm just reading a biography of Masako and given the treatment she has recieved by those of the imperial household I think Aiko would be better off to marry a commoner and get right away from the imperial family and their minions.

Elspeth 02-02-2007 03:11 PM

You mean this book, wymanda?

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...lia-11251.html

It doesn't hold out a lot of hope for Masako's future happiness, does it?

wymanda 02-02-2007 08:00 PM

Quote:

You mean this book, wymanda?

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...lia-11251.html

It doesn't hold out a lot of hope for Masako's future happiness, does it?
Thats the one!
Actually my one thought was that the occupying forces after WW2 were rather smart. By making the Emperor virtually a prisoner of the burearcracy and imposing such rules on the succession the Americans have virtually ensured that the Imperial family will die out.


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