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-   -   Counts Ingolf (b. 1940) and Christian (1942-2013) of Rosenborg and Families (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f24/counts-ingolf-b-1940-and-christian-1942-2013-of-rosenborg-and-families-10739.html)

alira 03-31-2012 06:57 PM

Yes, I know that this was the result of a plebiscite or something like that, but I think it comes from the King. Thank you:)
It is very interesting to know what was thes attitude of Knud to this fact

Viv 03-31-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alira (Post 1395214)
Does anyone know what kind of relationship does Queen Margrethe have with Ingolf and Christian??

From what we see in magazines and on TV: The brothers are normally invited along to family events like the 'big' birthdays and anniversaries. Christian more often so than Ingolf, because he lives in the Copenhagen area! I don't think it's a particularly close relationship, but a relationship it is!

Quote:

Originally Posted by alira (Post 1395214)
And does anybody know the reaction of Knud when Frederitck decided to change the law of succession?

King Frederik never decided to change the law of succession; the Danish parliament did;)! Anyway, Knud didn't take it well at all and the relationship between Knud and King Frederik deteriorated! Each of Knud's three children have told this publicly, but they insist in being very civil about it and letting bygoing be bygones.

viv

alira 03-31-2012 07:51 PM

Viv,Thank you for your answer.
Q: People voted for change in the law. Does a king? Why did it started a poll?
Q2: Why do not people support the Knud? What did he do wrong?

And more
I read on the forum that he was stupid, and so people did not want to see him as a king. Is it like this :: (

Archduchess Zelia 03-31-2012 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alira (Post 1395256)
Q: People voted for change in the law. Does a king? Why did it started a poll?

The change of the law of succession became a issue when King Frederik didn't have any sons and he needed a successor, I believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alira (Post 1395256)
Q2: Why do not people support the Knud? What did he do wrong?

I can't say if people didn't like Knud and his family, but I have no reason to believe they disliked the family in any way. I guess it just seemed more right to let Margrethe, the eldest daughter of the regent, follow in her father's footsteps.

alira 03-31-2012 08:21 PM

Archduchess Zelia,but why is Margrethe?
You write that the law was not changed by the will of the king, but by the will of the people. But why Knud? Why did this no one thought?
Why law has not changed before?
I did feel very sorry about him, I think it's terrible to grow and know that you will become king, and then lose it all: (

Archduchess Zelia 03-31-2012 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alira (Post 1395263)
Archduchess Zelia,but why is Margrethe?
You write that the law was not changed by the will of the king, but by the will of the people. But why Knud? Why did this no one thought?
Why law has not changed before?
I did feel very sorry about him, I think it's terrible to grow and know that you will become king, and then lose it all: (

Because Margrethe was the King's daughter and Knud was "just" his brother. I believe some people voted no to Margrethe, but overall most people wanted her to be her father's successor.

I don't think Knud grew up to think he was to become King, I believe everyone thought that King Frederik and Queen Ingrid would have a son, but since they didn't it was chosen by the Danes that Margrethe should be the heir.

Grandduchess24 03-31-2012 10:06 PM

The counts are sons of hereditary prince knud so are they and their families still able to attend royal events.

NGalitzine 03-31-2012 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24 (Post 1395282)
The counts are sons of hereditary prince knud so are they and their families still able to attend royal events.

Yes, and they have been guests at the royal weddings of Joachim & Frederik, and the QMII's birthday and jubilee celebrations.

Muhler 04-01-2012 02:41 AM

The answers to your questions Alira are pretty complicated and also shrowded somewhat in hearsay.

It became clear by the late 1940's that King Frederik and Queen Ingrid would not have more children. Queen Ingrid was actually warned against having more children IRRC.
By the same time the political landscape has shifted. The Communists had won a huge victory after WWII, partly as a reaction to the stablished parties policy of collaboration with German until 1943.
The future of the monarchy was by no means secure, even if the royals themselves were personally well liked.
It wasn't just King Christian X riding through the streets of Copenhagen, who became a strong national symbol - also among those who vote Communist. Also the then CP couple, Frederik and Ingrid, with their little family became strong symbols during WWII. Margrethe who was born a few days after the German occupation wasn't for anything described as "a light in the dark".
In other words many were against the monarchy as an establishment, but there were nevertheless many feelings for the individuals in the DRF.
Queen Ingrid and King Frederik was a likable, nice family. That is one of the reasons why M&F are so much compared to them.

But according to the Law of Succession, Princess Margrethe was to be bypassed by Prince Knud's children.
Prince Knud was for whatever reason not particular popular and at least among those I have spoken with, who were around at the time, he and his children were not considered very bright. I don't know if that is true, but that was certainly the perception.
And perhaps even more convincing, they are not the most beautiful people around either.

So the arguments were:
A) Should such persons represent Denmark as the first family, when we have a better alternative?
B) It's unfair against Princess Margrethe and her family.
C) Why shouldn't women have equal rights to a position?
D) It's time for a change of the Constitution anyway, let's link it to something popular and something that will get people to go and vote.

That caused Prince Knud to be very dissapointed, very understandebly perhaps and it let to a lot of resentment towards King Frederik.
That seems to have passed now. Prince Knud's children are not close to the DRF but they are not alien either.
Joachim and Prince Ingolf for example have en excellent relationship.

UserDane 04-01-2012 04:04 AM

I heard from elder family members that it was generally believed at the time that queen Ingrid advocated the change in the succession intensely and that there was some resentment on Knud's part against her for this - that this was the impression people had.

Funny thing is - if Knud and his children had entered the succession: Ingolf has had no children, his older sister has never married and had children. The only children in that family are the three girls of the youngest brother Christian - twin girls and a younger sister.

So, if the purpose of any pro Knud camp was to avoid female succession they would only have postponed the 'inevitable' for one generation.

Stefan 04-01-2012 04:57 AM

Here is an interesting article about the Change of the succession law and the realtions between the 2 famlies by historican Trond Norén Isaksen
Trond Norén Isaksen: The man who would be king

UserDane 04-01-2012 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan (Post 1395356)
Here is an interesting article about the Change of the succession law and the realtions between the 2 famlies by historican Trond Norén Isaksen
Trond Norén Isaksen: The man who would be king

Interesting, thank you Stefan.
I didn't know that Ingolf had played such an active part in reconciling the two branches of the family.

I suppose one shouldn't judge prince Knud's reaction to the change of succession by today's norms - but still, it is strange to our modern concept of things that he should feel this bitter because the regent's own child was given the opportunity to succeed the king.

Muhler 04-01-2012 05:19 AM

Thanks, Stefan :smile:
An interesting article.

It's also a testament on how times have changed, from a time where becoming a king was an ambition, to our time where becoming a king is a duty.

Artemisia 04-01-2012 07:11 AM

I've been wondering about this change as well, and especially Prince Knud's reaction to it.
Thanks a lot for the most detailed and interesting answers Viv, Zelia, Muhler, UserDane, and Stefan! :smile:

alira 04-01-2012 09:32 AM

Muhler,UserDane,Stefan,thank you for such interesting information!
Despite the fact that I believe that Margrethe is great queen, I feel very sorry about Knud and his unfulfilled dream.
And it's very good that Ingolf could reconcile with his family .

The brothers are involved in public life? Do they have a public office or smth. like that?

maria-olivia 04-01-2012 03:09 PM

Very interesting thread and informations.
Is it true that their sister Princess Elisabeth never marries because she did not want to loose her title of royal Highness ?

Muhler 04-01-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 1395521)
Very interesting thread and informations.
Is it true that their sister Princess Elisabeth never marries because she did not want to loose her title of royal Highness ?

It's my impression that Princess Elizabeth is not the marrying kind.

Alira. I think FasterB can answer your questions. :smile:

UserDane 04-01-2012 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 1395521)
Very interesting thread and informations.
Is it true that their sister Princess Elisabeth never marries because she did not want to loose her title of royal Highness ?

It has been mentioned in the media during the years - but whether it's correct, I don't know.
In this article from the tabloid BT - BT - it is said that the princess honestly admits that she loves the big royal parties and getting invited to them in her capacity as a princess and that this should be part of the reason why she hasn't married.

She hasn't lived her life as a single all the time though. She lived together with photographer and director Claus Hermansen for more than 20 years till he died in the late 90's.

FasterB 04-01-2012 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia (Post 1395521)
Very interesting thread and informations.
Is it true that their sister Princess Elisabeth never marries because she did not want to loose her title of royal Highness ?

HRH Princess Elisabeth has herself stated in an interview in Billed Bladet that she never got married to her lifelonglove Claus, because she didn´t want to give up the HRH Princess title :flowers:

IIRC then her wording was: "Dén skulle de ikke have" (Muhler, I don´t know how to translate this, can you help? :flowers:)

Muhler 04-01-2012 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FasterB (Post 1395568)
HRH Princess Elisabeth has herself stated in an interview in Billed Bladet that she never got married to her lifelonglove Claus, because she didn´t want to give up the HRH Princess title :flowers:

IIRC then her wording was: "Dén skulle de ikke have" (Muhler, I don´t know how to translate this, can you help? :flowers:)

Sure. :smile:
It can best be translated as: "They weren't going to take that (her title) away from me".


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