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-   -   Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and Grand Duchess Marie (1853-1920) (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f165/prince-alfred-duke-of-edinburgh-1844-1900-and-grand-duchess-marie-1853-1920-a-10717.html)

Russophile 02-27-2010 03:52 AM

Enough has been written by Alix. :ermm: I just put on hold a book on Ducky: A Fatal Passion: The Story of Victoria Melita By John Michael Sullivan. I find her fascinating.
I read in Marie of Roumania's book that the Melita came from Malta where they where when she was conceived, or born?? Feel free to correct me here.

MAfan 02-27-2010 07:16 AM

She was born in Malta, where Prince Alfred was stationed as Navy officer.

jonnydep 02-27-2010 09:04 PM

Suggested books:
Princess Victoria Melita, Grand Duchess Cryil of Russia : by John Van Der Kiste, which was published in 1991.
btw the same author also published the following ....Dearest Affie : Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh, Queen Victoria's second son... in 1984.
both books are considered to be good read's .....;)

Warren 03-02-2010 03:48 AM

The discussion of Queen Marie has been moved to the King Ferdinand I & Queen Marie of Romania thread.

CarolinaLandgrave 03-02-2010 09:39 AM

Jonny, I found the book on Amazon.
Does it give any insight (curiosity is killing the cat) on Duchess Marie's opinions of the marriages of Ernie & Victoria Melita and Kirill & Victoria Melita....? As she was so opposed to Missy marrying the future King George V - a first cousin!
As much as Duchess Marie liked being top dog, I would have though she would have foamed at the mouth to have a daughter who was Queen of England! Even though she herself despised England and took of to Germany as soon as Alfred succeeded to the ducal throne in Coburg.

Marengo 03-02-2010 10:25 AM

I have Vanderkiste's book as well, but I haven't read it yet. Although his books are easy to read, I always find them rather short and not too 'deep'. He usually does not do too much research in the archives either (I suppose that is what makes him more productive than most royalty authors) and he makes a - very readable- fusion of already existing books and articles. But considering there are no other books available it will do.

I always heard that she was named 'Melita' for Malta, but how is that since the names are somewhat simular but not the same in Englsih at least.

EmpressRouge 03-02-2010 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave (Post 1056115)
As much as Duchess Marie liked being top dog, I would have though she would have foamed at the mouth to have a daughter who was Queen of England! Even though she herself despised England and took of to Germany as soon as Alfred succeeded to the ducal throne in Coburg.

Well, I think the romance blossomed during George's navy days, when his brother Albert Victor was still alive. Thus, no one would have thought Princess Marie would become the future Queen of England (just married to a navy-career second son like her mother).
Being one of Queen Victoria's most charming and beautiful granddaughters (along with Ella and Ena) and possessing such regal lineage (granddaughter of Queen Victoria and Tsar Alexander II), Marie seemed destined to be Queen/Empress of a more prestigious throne. It was surprising that Marie "settled" for a upstart Balkan kingdom of Romania, all due to Duchess Marie's hatred of the British court that "was not good enough for a Grand Duchess."

CarolinaLandgrave 03-02-2010 03:59 PM

I totally understand the Duchess Marie not thinking that England's throne was not "not good enough for a Grand Duchess" issue... even though she herself married, like you stated, a second son - of the British monarch, no doubt. However, since Marie could not marry the Czar (as Orthodoxy forbids such marriage and Nicky was head over heals in love with Alix.... and the Kaiser was already married and had children arriving that were close to Alfred and Marie's in age.... what kingdom or empire was there for her to affiance Missy in marriage to?? In my humble opinion, which there seems to be some issues with and with my posts as well, Duchess Marie would have still found the British Empire far more worthy than, like you said, the "upstart" Romania. Even if the marriage was to a "mere" second son. And wonder if she (Duchess Marie) ever entertained the notion of Missy and Eddy? Queen Victoria was at one time tried to push one granddaughter towards him...
Just a few ideas that popped into my head. Thanks EmpressRouge

EmpressRouge 03-02-2010 06:42 PM

Good point, CarolinaLandgrave! I guess when it comes to royalty, no how big of a catch a princess is, there's always a problem with supply. If one just wanted to marry rich, there's almost an endless supply. But royals, especially kings are very, very limited.

I think Marie Alexandrovna and her sister-in-law Maria Pavlova (wife of Vladimir) both had very snobby attitudes, proud to be Grand Duchesses (although MP's own Reuss lineage wasn't that impressive) and tried to steer their daughters into grand matches (MA had better luck, churning out a Queen and Grand Duchess). It seemed ironic that they emphasized their lineage so much when MA and Vladimir's mother, Marie of Hesse, was almost certainly the illegitimate daughter of Wilhelmine of Baden and her husband's employee.

It turns out the trait for many Russian-born Grand Duchesses to be snobby (think Maria Alexandrovna and Elena Vladimirovna) had a source, Tsar Nicholas I. According to Prince Michael of Greece's book, Nicholas was the one who began instilling the notion that the Russian court and empire was superior to all others (and had his wife Charlotte of Prussia dress and be painted wearing tradition Russian court dress) and that notion traveled with his daughters when they married. Along with pride, all Grand Duchess married with large dowries and impressive jewels (which is how Luxembourg, Hesse, Holland and Greece have some splendid pieces); when his sister Anna Pavlova, Queen of the Netherlands lost all her Russian jewels in a palace fire, Nicholas promptly ordered replicas of the entire collection.

CarolinaLandgrave 03-02-2010 06:52 PM

Agreed... I think if you look up Grand Duchess in the dictionary, you'd see a picture of Marie Edinburgh and Meichen! And, bless her heart, Meichen would have never achieved such if she hadn't married up! At least Marie Edinburgh was truly a Grand Duchess (with the sketchy lineage on the Hesse side... seeing as Marie's grandfather may not have been so "Grand" a figure as the Grand Dule Louis II of Hesse!

EmpressRouge.... I had a thought, wonder why if Marie Edinburgh considered Willy and Dona's eldest son?? Crown Prince Wilhelm was just a few years Missy's junior... and like herself (Marie E), an Imperial and Royal Highness!!

snowflower 03-02-2010 07:20 PM

:previous: That's an interesting thought CarolinaLandgrave about a mariage to Crown Prince Willem but I really doubt Willy would have let his son and heir to the Prussian throne get married to a British Princess even if Marie Alexandrovna had cast a spell on his son in order to marry one of her daughters... Besides, the bride picked for him had to be x rayed by many, many people, and I doubt that any of Marie's daughters (who were very romantic and free minded and would always do exactly the thing they wished and nothing else) would have passed the test:biggrin:.

Warren 03-03-2010 10:14 AM

Courtesy of Wikipedia Grandchildren of Victoria & Albert
pic not subject to copyright
Prince Alfred of Edinburgh (1874-1899)

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...YoungAffie.jpg

Zonk 03-03-2010 10:54 AM

Marie with Albert Victor would have been a nightmare. Queen Victoria wanted someone for Eddy who was calm, royal and a good influence. Marie was one on a good day (royal) and never the two on another day. In other words...just a little boring. Boring is never been a term I have heard associated with Marie. But she did turn out to be a magnficient Queen...shame about that son though!

Does anyone know about Alfred and Marie's marriage? Was it a good one? Marie having a high opinion of her status and a low one of the British court (even though she married into one) does not give off good vibes. But they definitely had beautiful daughters...I thought there was a book written about them but I might be confusing it with the Hesse daughters (I think it was Coburg something).

I have also found Vanderkiste's books to be quite frothy. Not too detailed with new details. But maybe its just me because I love reading about the subjects and I try to read everything.

Vasillisos Markos 03-03-2010 04:47 PM

:previous:

Wasn't it true that Princess Alice, daughter of Queen Victoria, was instrumental in promoting the alliance of Marie with Prince Alfred? She must have met Marie through her Hesse in-laws.

jonnydep 03-04-2010 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave (Post 1056238)
And wonder if she (Duchess Marie) ever entertained the notion of Missy and Eddy? Queen Victoria was at one time tried to push one granddaughter towards him...

well not Quite correct !!
The Queen had considered two of her granddaughters as a wife for him !
Alicky of Hesse and after she refused him. she tried to push Mossy of Prussia towards Eddy......he refused to consider her.

as for Duchess Marie, ever considering a match between Missy and Eddy. well think again.....she none too happy when his brother Georgie made his tentative proposal of marriage to her and Georgie was far more suitable in his character than his (now dead) brother...what nonsense :whistling:

Russophile 03-04-2010 07:52 PM

:previous:In Queen Marie of Roumania's bio she talked about Georgie, I think there was "something there".
She (Queen Marie) talked extensively about how whenever her mother traveled she had a huge perscription chest that had everything in it. I'll find the link.

Roderick 03-05-2010 04:58 AM

It was Albert Victor who declined to consider Mossy of Prussia not the other way around. Several authors have stated this was because he did not find her physically attractive but that she and her mother would have welcomed the match.

jonnydep 03-05-2010 05:41 AM

:previous:
:eek: I am sorry, you are correct Roderick !! Eddy had refused to consider Mossy :flowers:

MAfan 03-05-2010 11:37 AM

Who was Mossy of the Prussia sisters?

Zonk 03-05-2010 12:19 PM

Mossy was Princess Margaret. Here is a short bio from Wikipedia.

Princess Margaret of Prussia (Margarete Beatrice Feodora) (22 April 1872 – 22 January 1954) was a daughter of Frederick III, German Emperor and Victoria, Princess Royal. She married Prince Frederick Charles of Hesse. In 1926 they became Landgrave and Landgravine of Hesse. She lost three sons in the two World Wars.

-----------------------------------

Some of the Prussian princesses had a somewhat bad reputation from what I have read. No one really wanted to be associated with Wilhem, and I believe another Prussian princess (was it Louise of Sweden) married into another former house and it wasn't a success. Some royal houses weren't interested in trying to wed another one.


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