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-   -   No More Nobility? (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f22/no-more-nobility-10363.html)

lord_rankin 07-25-2006 03:57 PM

No More Nobility?
 
I just read the King Carl Gustav XVI has not had the power to grant noble titles since 1974? Why on earth would that have been a constitutional change? Does anyone know the reason he was deprived of that right? Just curious and a little baffled.

Toledo 07-25-2006 04:19 PM

In our constitution in Spain that is one of the royal pregogatives listed, so I wonder if our friends from Sweden can find a similar note in their Constitutional documents too.
I'll check if there is information in english, be back in a minute...

I'm back. I found this so far but does not elaborate much. I'm reading it in another window:
Constitution of Sweden


15 minutes after, I'm still looking and found a page that explains their next door neighbohrs, the Norway king, can only appoint members of his family to royal titles but not create a nobility (scroll down to the very bottom of that page) . I searched the other sections of that site to find data on Sweden and (I'm still reading it in another window) found some interesting stuff in case you want to get more information on other details of their system http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/se-royal.html

I have to leave but I found this:
http://www.answers.com/topic/swedish-nobility
scroll down to the section titled privileges

"...The noble estate was never abolished in Sweden, but its privileged position has been weakened step by step since 1680. The nobility's political privileges were practically abolished by the reformation of the Riksdag of the Estates in 1866, and the last rights of precedence to certain governmental offices were removed in the 1920s. By then also the last taxation privileges had been abolished. Some minor privileges remained up until 2003, when the law concerning the privileges of the nobility was completely abolished.
The privileges of the nobility today are limited to protection of noble titles and certain elements and styles used in coats of arms: a helm with open visor, a coronet showing rank, and the use of supporters. Legal protection regarding names in Sweden does not make specific distinctions on the grounds of nobility..."

I'm sure our pals from that area will find better sources. I did several word matches but could not track down a document to show if he was deprived of that right by parlamentary vote or, just like our King Juan Carlos of Spain, he does not grant new titles on a regular basis.

Furienna 07-25-2006 05:47 PM

I believe the last one to be knighted here in Sweden was explorer Sven Hedin...

Toledo 07-25-2006 11:21 PM

Sven Hedin
...In 1902 he was the last Swede ever to be ennobled with a hereditary title...


1902 was a long time ago!

lord_rankin 07-26-2006 10:07 AM

Thank you Toledo for the info! Much appreciated. I can't believe they hadn't enobled someone since 1902! Think how many the Queen of England has granted Letters of Patent to since 1953.

GrandDuchess 07-26-2006 10:46 AM

This is just the way the Swedish society has developed. We've done away with giving new noble titles and the existing nobility's privileges, and also the Swedish language has changed to become a highly relaxed language - we don't use titles or address people in certain ways anymore, we've done away with the old fashioned Swedish when people talked in a very formal way (it was the epitome of the class system).

The monarch has not been allowed to create new noble titles since 1974, the only exception is for the Royal House - the King can still create royal dukes for example (like he did for his children).

The modernisation of the constitution also affected the royal orders (from the beginning, the change did so that no one, not even the Royal Family, could receive Swedish orders, but it changed in 1995). Since 1974, no Swedish citizen (except the Royal Family) can receive a royal Swedish order. Only foreign nationals and people with no nationality can receive the Order of the Seraphim and the Order of the Polar Star (as can the members of the Royal Family). You can read more about the order system here.

Toledo 07-26-2006 08:38 PM

:( There go my hopes of having Benny, Agnetha, Anafried and Bjorn ennobled as Counts and Countesses of ABBA. Even though titles are not allowed, it would still be nice if citizens did get an honor for their achievements from the hands of the King (or future Queen) like in Britain or Spain.

I was watching over the weekend a documentary on ABBA and read how much they did for the Swedish economy thanks to their record sales, where they ever given any kind of honor by the King?

Furienna 07-26-2006 08:46 PM

We're too communistic over here in Sweden to allow any nobility.

Tzu An 07-26-2006 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna
We're too communistic over here in Sweden to allow any nobility.

I'm sorry to hear that. It is a shame to know that people are so obessed with equality that they'll ruin ancient traditions to achieve that. I think all royal families should have a nobility to go with them.

grevinnan 07-26-2006 08:57 PM

Yet the aristocracy and un-official nobility is alive and well. Even communistic countries have the very special upper class.

srivishnu 07-26-2006 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna
I believe the last one to be knighted here in Sweden was explorer Sven Hedin...

HM King Carl XVI Gustaf did knight former England coach,Sven Goran Eriksson who is a Swede a few years back.

Furienna 07-26-2006 09:04 PM

I was too crude in my last post, but I was telling the truth. We are a people, that's more into equality than tradition. We have nobility, but it's not like how it is over in the UK. And no one has been knighted in Sweden since Sven Hedin was knighted in 1902. And the king back then would have been Oscar II, our current king's great great grandfather! Neither Gustav V, Gustav VI Adolf or Carl XVI Gustaf have been allowed to knight, while the Brittish monarchs have done it all the time.

I don't know about if Svennis is knighted or not. I'm not that into sports. But I doubt it.

Toledo 07-26-2006 09:54 PM

From what I found in the information about Norway's system, that I stumbled upon while looking for Sweden's, is made clear in their constitution the monarch cannot create any more nobility. I think we go back to the topic presented on the thread, has the King of Sweden has been legally deprived of giving recogntitions to outstanding citizens through a change in the Constitution.
Has he? Anyone knows? I could not find anything as clear as Norway's, and I believe Greece also has that ruling too when they were a monarchy.

GrandDuchess 07-27-2006 07:16 AM

I don't think we should re-instate the right to noble people in Sweden, but I do however feel the order system should be re-instated again.

Swedish citizens, and not just members of the Royal Family or foreign royals or Heads of States, should be able to receive the Order of the Polar Star for their "civic merits, for devotion to duty, for science, literary, learned and useful works and for new and beneficial institutions" as it says. It would be a very good way of paying tribute and awarding an important insignia to good citizens.

I'm no expert on the Swedish royal orders, but depending on what the statutes for the above says, maybe the non-service order, the Order of Vasa, could also be re-instated, since it's a free order, unrestrictured by birth or education. It would surely also be of use to Swedish citizens who have done great work in the fields of agriculture and mining, technical progress and commerce.

Since Sweden has had peace for hundreds of years, we haven't really needed a military reward order either. But now with the EU and Sweden's changing Defence, were we will lead a Nordic battle group and are already sending troops to worrying areas (such as Afghanistan and parts of Africa), I think that the Order of the Sword should be re-instated as well. Maybe the statutes would have to be altered a little, but the old motivation "bravery in the field and at sea, and later also as a reward for long and distinguished service in the armed forces" would perhaps do fine. It would also be nice if it could be awarded posthumously to the families of militaries who have lost family members in peace keeping operations (which has happned).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toledo
I was watching over the weekend a documentary on ABBA and read how much they did for the Swedish economy thanks to their record sales, where they ever given any kind of honor by the King?

I would guess that they have received H.M. The King's Medal at some point, but I don't know for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by srivishnu
HM King Carl XVI Gustaf did knight former England coach,Sven Goran Eriksson who is a Swede a few years back.

No, he did not knight "Svennis", King Carl XVI Gustaf cannot knight anyone. Sven Göran Eriksson was awarded H.M. The King's Medal in 2005, and he received it at the Royal Palace of Stockholm in 2006. It's not a knighthood, merely a royal medal.

rop81 07-27-2006 03:39 PM

GrandDuchess I totally agree with your post above, I have long thought that itīs a shame that the king canīt award a royal order to a person that has done something good for the country. And i donīt think that we should create a new nobility but just show some appreciation for great deeds.

princess olga 07-28-2006 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toledo
:( There go my hopes of having Benny, Agnetha, Anafried and Bjorn ennobled as Counts and Countesses of ABBA. Even though titles are not allowed, it would still be nice if citizens did get an honor for their achievements from the hands of the King (or future Queen) like in Britain or Spain.

I was watching over the weekend a documentary on ABBA and read how much they did for the Swedish economy thanks to their record sales, where they ever given any kind of honor by the King?

The members of Abba don't need royal titles to be on top of the heap in <my> book! :p
As far as I'm concerned, Abba's done more for the world with their music than most of those idle nepotism lottery winners, with a few exceptions of course!:rolleyes:

Rick4545 01-31-2011 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna (Post 481041)
I believe the last one to be knighted here in Sweden was explorer Sven Hedin...

I believe that both The Duke of Edinburgh and The Prince of Wales have both been awarded the Order of the Royal Seraphim which apart from male members of the Royal Family in Sweden hold, ie, Prince Daniel recieved this honour on his wedding., It was a gift from King Carl Gustav and he wore it as he left Stockholm Cathedral after his Wedding Ceremony.

Both British Princes received this having been made knights of the highest Order when they officially visited Sweden. This is the highest honour bestowed upon either a member of the Swedish Royal Family or a foreign dignitory.

Rick4545 01-31-2011 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick4545 (Post 1199651)
I believe that both The Duke of Edinburgh and The Prince of Wales have both been awarded the Order of the Royal Seraphim which apart from male members of the Royal Family in Sweden hold, ie, Prince Daniel recieved this honour on his wedding., It was a gift from King Carl Gustav and he wore it as he left Stockholm Cathedral after his Wedding Ceremony.

Both British Princes received this having been made knights of the highest Order when they officially visited Sweden. This is the highest honour bestowed upon either a member of the Swedish Royal Family or a foreign dignitory.

Category:Orders of knighthood of Sweden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

zela33 06-14-2011 04:02 PM

GrandDuchess: With all respect, I disagree. In my opinion, monarchs should be completely unencumbered in granting whatever honor and privileges they wish, so long as those honored serve their country honorably, especially in the military or civil service. Those not in national service could be honored with an appropriate decoration and/or stipend.


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