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  #21  
Old 05-19-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I believe it was the Roman emperor Hadrian who aid that we will all have a shepherd somewhere in our family trees . But considering a large part of Máxima's anscestors are from the Iberian peninsula, a black anscestor a few centuries ago is rather likely.
The problem with ancestors is that they had no idea who their progeny might become, much less that ancestry.com would peg those descendents' race at $89.99 as a Mother's Day special. All it takes is one curious cousin and the DNA comes out to haunt one.
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2014, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ashelen View Post
Most of the black Argentinean died with the yellow fever and the ones who were alive were moved to Brasil before the slavery abolition in 1813. May be in the last 10 years you can have immigration from Africa, but I lived there for 20 years and I had never seen a black person. Certenly Maxima does not have any African blood.
The issue is not that there is a large distinct black population in Argentina like you might see in Harlem, New York or Bahia in Brazil, the issue is that blacks mixed in with the whites and as a result many "white" Argentines have black ancestry. Maxima is a classic case in point. If someone like Maxima who comes from such a well-to-do and established family has black ancestry, then what of the rest of the population?

By the way, on what do you base your certainty that Maxima doesn't have black ancestry when the most thorough genealogical study on her family tree says that she does? Have you traced her family ancestry?

This is the study that says that Maxima has possible black ancestry:

Ancestry of Maxima Zorreguieta (b. 1971)

compiled by William Addams Reitwiesner

http://www.wargs.com/royal/maxima.html

[email protected]

Black blood comes in though an ancestor by the name of Juana Maria Aguirre:

583 Juana María Aguirre (posiblemente, ambos cónyuges eran mestizos ó mulatos)
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2014, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I think the chance that Máxima has a black person in her ancestry is greater than the chance that she descends from an Inca Emperor...



But a closer look to the ancestry learns:

In the paternal line :
- her father Jorge Zorreguieta was a landowner, a government minister and president of employers unions
- her grandfather Juan Antonio Zorreguieta was a landowner and a banker
- her great-grandfather Amadeo Zorreguieta was a landowner, a mayor and a government minister
- her great-grandfather Oreste Stefanini was a maritime enterpreneur
- her great-great-grandfather Mariano Zorreguieta was a landowner, a government minister, member and president of the senate
- Etc.

In the maternal line:
- her grandfather Jorge Horacio Cerruti was a landowner, a medical doctor and a surgeon
- her great-grandfather Santiago Cerruti was a landowner, a medical doctor and a surgeon
- her great-grandfather Domingo Carricart was a landowner, a banker and a mayor
- her great-great-grandfather Santiago Cerruti (the Cerruti whom emigrated to Argentina) was a marine enterpreneur
- her great-great-grandfather Bernardo Carricart (the Carricart whom emigrated to Argentina) was a veterinarian doctor
- Etc.

So all by all, Máxima's ancestors seems to have belonged more to the Haves than to the Have-nots in society. Back then Argentine society was very class-conscious, so I doubt a marriage with someone "below the standing" (mayors, bankers, ministers, surgeons) would have been acceptable...

I concur with you that it's highly unlikely that Maxima descends from an Inca emperor, however, she probably does have Inca blood. If you look at her genealogy, she has at least two Peruvian ancestors and while not all Peruvians are indigenous, a very large number of them are, and its likely that if she does have Indian ancestry, it comes in through those two relatives.
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  #24  
Old 12-27-2015, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I believe it was the Roman emperor Hadrian who aid that we will all have a shepherd somewhere in our family trees . But considering a large part of Máxima's anscestors are from the Iberian peninsula, a black anscestor a few centuries ago is rather likely.
But why does that matter anyway? We know HSH Princess Angela of Liechtenstein (née Angela Gisela Brown) is Panamanian of African decent, which makes her son also of African descent . HSH The Prince of Monaco has an illegitimate son who is biracial; his mother is a black woman from Tongo. There has been gossip of black ancestry of both Maxima and HRH The Grand Duchess of Luxembourg - who are both from wealthy Spanish-speaking Carribbean/Latin American families. Is there an insinuation that they are hiding (=ashamed) the fact they are of African descent? Truthfully, if any family is hiding African descent, let's go back to the Prince (Albert) of Monaco. His paternal grandmother was the child of his great-grandfather Prince Louis II of Monaco and a random woman from Algeria, which is on the African continent. His wife also hails from the African continent. So is Albert hiding black ancestry and/or is Charlene hiding black ancestry as well? I'm not saying they are, just wondering why it matters anyway. What difference does it make anyway? Is it for genealogical reasons or for other reasons? Just trying to understand, that's all.
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  #25  
Old 12-27-2015, 06:18 PM
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It would be interested to know what would say her DNA test. I born in Argentina, and I had one DNA done with ancestry and I always believe I was 50% French and 50% Danish. and I was shock to know that I have 44% German and Danish, not to mention I have some Norwegian, Swedish, British, Belgian, Dutch, Irish , Hungarian , Finish, Russian, Italian and some Caucasian, so what would say the one for Maxima, would be very , very interesting................!
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  #26  
Old 12-29-2015, 03:45 PM
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Máxima's closest connection to royals is not via genealogy but via relationships, us-knows-us in high society.

Karl, 12th Fürst Kinsky von Wchinitz und Tettau, born (and primarily living in Argentina) is a second cousin to Erbprinz Aloïs of Liechtenstein as Aloïs' mother, Fürstin Marie Aglaë, is born a Gräfin Kinsky von Wchinitz und Tettau. Aloïs is also a third cousin to King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands: the mother of the 12th Fürst was Mathilde Freiin von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen, a full cousin of Gösta Freiin von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen, the grandmother of King Willem-Alexander.

Hilmar Freiherr von den Bussche-Haddenhausen married María Eleonore Martínez de Hoz (1875–1957), daughter of Narcisso Martínez de Hoz, founder of the Martínez de Hoz dynasty. What has this to do with Máxima? Her father, Jorge Horacío Zorreguieta became lifelong befriended with José Alfredo Martínez de Hoz. A spider in the web of Argentine trade and economics. Both would serve as a minister under the Videla regime. Martínez de Hoz was seen as the brain behind the economic policy of the miltary junta. Both the Martínez de Hoz as well the Zorreguieta families originate from the old big estancia families in the Salta region.

So in Máxima's case: no genealogical bond but definitely surprisingly close via bonds and alliances. Also an interesting detail: as the King is related to the Liechtenstein family, Ms Máxima Zorreguieta became aquainted to him thanks to.... a Prince of Liechtenstein, also working in the New York Haute Finance, whom invited her to visit the Feria in Sevilla.... there she would meet a certain blonde Prince... the rest is history. It is a small world. Entre nous.
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  #27  
Old 12-31-2015, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Máxima's closest connection to royals is not via genealogy but via relationships, us-knows-us in high society.

Karl, 12th Fürst Kinsky von Wchinitz und Tettau, born (and primarily living in Argentina) is a second cousin to Erbprinz Aloïs of Liechtenstein as Aloïs' mother, Fürstin Marie Aglaë, is born a Gräfin Kinsky von Wchinitz und Tettau. Aloïs is also a third cousin to King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands: the mother of the 12th Fürst was Mathilde Freiin von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen, a full cousin of Gösta Freiin von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen, the grandmother of King Willem-Alexander.

Hilmar Freiherr von den Bussche-Haddenhausen married María Eleonore Martínez de Hoz (1875–1957), daughter of Narcisso Martínez de Hoz, founder of the Martínez de Hoz dynasty. What has this to do with Máxima? Her father, Jorge Horacío Zorreguieta became lifelong befriended with José Alfredo Martínez de Hoz. A spider in the web of Argentine trade and economics. Both would serve as a minister under the Videla regime. Martínez de Hoz was seen as the brain behind the economic policy of the miltary junta. Both the Martínez de Hoz as well the Zorreguieta families originate from the old big estancia families in the Salta region.

So in Máxima's case: no genealogical bond but definitely surprisingly close via bonds and alliances. Also an interesting detail: as the King is related to the Liechtenstein family, Ms Máxima Zorreguieta became aquainted to him thanks to.... a Prince of Liechtenstein, also working in the New York Haute Finance, whom invited her to visit the Feria in Sevilla.... there she would meet a certain blonde Prince... the rest is history. It is a small world. Entre nous.
To quote Paul Harvey - "and now you have the rest of the story." Duc _ et _ pair - how much was her dowry?
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  #28  
Old 02-28-2016, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
The problem with ancestors is that they had no idea who their progeny might become, much less that ancestry.com would peg those descendents' race at $89.99 as a Mother's Day special. All it takes is one curious cousin and the DNA comes out to haunt one.
Are you saying having African ancestry is shameful and something to be kept hidden from public knowledge?
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