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  #141  
Old 12-20-2014, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
Queen Victoria was the first carrier of the conditionin in royal families. Her granddaughter brought haemophilia gene into The Romanov family.
Sorry, but all Queen Victoria's descendants are well known, most of them are in the line of succession to British throne.
All her legitimate descendants are well known but what about illegitimate lines???
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  #142  
Old 12-20-2014, 01:56 AM
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There is also another thread titled haemophioa in european royalty that has some interesting information.

Haemophilia In European Royalty
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  #143  
Old 12-20-2014, 06:03 AM
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It is well known that hemophilia is passed on through women who are carriers of the gene, but don't suffer from the condition themselves. So it is impossible that gbswales inherited the condition through is unknown father. Nor is it likely that any female descendent of Queen Victoria managed to give birth to an illegitimate child and keep that a secret.

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  #144  
Old 12-20-2014, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post


It is well known that hemophilia is passed on through women who are carriers of the gene, but don't suffer from the condition themselves. So it is impossible that gbswales inherited the condition through is unknown father. Nor is it likely that any female descendent of Queen Victoria managed to give birth to an illegitimate child and keep that a secret.

Not quite. A haemophiliac father would pass the gene on to all of his daughters all would be carriers of he gene.. So if, for instance, Prince Leopold, QVs youngest son had an illegitimate daughter she could have passed it on to her children. I think all QV descendants, legitimate or not are well known and so I doubt that there are any secret lines of descent carrying the gene.
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  #145  
Old 12-20-2014, 06:31 AM
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Very interesting... does anyone know if the person that this type of Haemophilia was named after was related to Q.Victoria?
I checked the wiki-page Stephen Christmas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia but on that it didn't mention a relationship (now ofcourse that doesn't mean that there wasn't one, but maybe it's a coincidence that he had the same variation as the royals?)
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  #146  
Old 12-20-2014, 07:30 AM
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Not all illegitimate children are actually acknowledged so it is possible that Leopold had an illegitimate daughter that wasn't acknowledged.
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  #147  
Old 12-20-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Not all illegitimate children are actually acknowledged so it is possible that Leopold had an illegitimate daughter that wasn't acknowledged.
True, but from what I have read of Leopold, I don't think it likely.
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  #148  
Old 12-20-2014, 08:31 PM
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Especially with all the historians and biographies out there...that's a pretty notable family they probably don't have too many secrets we don't already know about.



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  #149  
Old 12-11-2015, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
First cousin. The same as Bea, Eugenie, Zara & Louise. So yeah that would be gross.
Gross, maybe, but totally legal. Remember, Queen Victoria married her first cousin and had lots of children with him.
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  #150  
Old 12-11-2015, 09:50 PM
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And brought haemophilia into the family though I donīt exactly know whether this illness is a result of inbreeding. I believe that marrying your first cousin nowadays is considered strange and "annatural" even it might be allowed in some countries. Therefore I donīt think Harry will ever marry one of his first cousins.
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  #151  
Old 12-11-2015, 10:04 PM
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And brought haemophilia into the family though I donīt exactly know whether this illness is a result of inbreeding. I believe that marrying your first cousin nowadays is considered strange and "annatural" even it might be allowed in some countries. Therefore I donīt think Harry will ever marry one of his first cousins.

The hemophilia had nothing to do with Victoria marrying her first cousin. Victoria was a carrier for it (likely through a random mutation as it wasn't seen in her family previously), which is how it was passed into her descendants - every one of her children had a 50% chance of receiving the gene, and if they received it her sons would have been hemophiliac (it's a X chromosome trait) and her daughters would have been carriers (they couldn't have had it as their father didn't have it). Any daughters of a son with hemophilia were guaranteed to get the gene as well (making them at best carriers; if their mothers were also carriers then they had a 50% chance of getting the disease), and all the children of any daughters who were carriers had a 50% chance of receiving the gene as well.

It spread so thoroughly throughout European royalty not so much because of incest, but simply because Victoria had 9 children who married other European royals. The only time incest would have been at issue with the spread of the disease is when/if any women had it (I can't remember if any such case happened), as her father would have had to have it, and her mother would have had to have been a carrier as well.
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  #152  
Old 12-11-2015, 10:09 PM
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The haemophilia gene which Victoria is believed to have handed down to two of her daughters and one son is believed by many experts now to have been a rogue gene, a mutation at her conception. Her father, Edward, was an older father and it's considered that such genetic malformations are slightly higher with older parents. Edward was not closely related at all to Victoire, Victoria's mother.
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  #153  
Old 12-11-2015, 10:22 PM
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So Victoria would have passed on the mutated, defective, gene on the X chromosome she passed on to her children, regardless of who their father was. The fact she married her mother's brother's son was irrelevant.
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  #154  
Old 12-11-2015, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefanie View Post
And brought haemophilia into the family though I donīt exactly know whether this illness is a result of inbreeding. I believe that marrying your first cousin nowadays is considered strange and "annatural" even it might be allowed in some countries. Therefore I donīt think Harry will ever marry one of his first cousins.
No, the hemophilia is not linked to imbreeding. Imbreeding causes an increase risk of genetic disorders, true. Recessive diseases may be more frequent, as if the recessive gene is found in the family, both parents may be a carrier of it. Hemophilia while recessive, is different. It is an X chromosome disease. That is why most who suffer from it are male. Men only have one x chromosome, women have two. For a woman to have hemophilia, she would have to inherit a defective x chromosome from both parents. If she doesn't, she could be a carrier, but not suffer. Men only have one X chromosome, so if they inherit a defective one, they have the disease. Victoria marrying her cousin did not increase her chances of passing on hemophilia to her kids. Albert did not have hemophilia so he was not able to pass it on to his children. Victoria was a carrier, and unfortunately one son had it and 2 daughters passed it on.
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  #155  
Old 12-12-2015, 11:30 PM
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There as one case of intermarriage between Queen Victorias descendants that had the potential to be a case of the disease being spread or made worse by inbreeding. That was the marriage of Prince Heinrich of Prussia to his first cousin, Princess Irene of Hesse, the sister of Tsarina Alix. They were first cosuins, their mothers were sisters, daughters of QV. Irene was herself a carrier, two of her three sons were Haemophiliac. But it could have been worse. Heinrich could have been Haemophiliac himself. It appears that his mother was fortunate in not possessing the gene and so couldn't have passed it onto her son. But if she had and Heinrich was Haemophiliac then all sons of Heinrich and Irene would have been Haemophiliac, all daughters carriers, and potentially half of the daughters Haemophiliac. That would have definitely been a case of inbreeding creating a worse situation
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  #156  
Old 12-13-2015, 01:05 AM
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A correction: if Heinrich had been haemophiliac, then all his daughters would have received the gene and been at best carriers. They would have also had a 50% chance of being haemophiliac as well, as their mother was a carrier. His sons, however, still would have only had a 50% chance of receiving the disease.

Haemophilia is an X chromosome trait, so men only need 1 genome to display the trait (as they only have 1 X chromosome), but women need 2. A father is going to give all his daughters his X chromosome and all his sons his Y chromosome, but each child (male or female) of a woman has a 50% chance of getting either 1 of his/her mother's X chromosomes.

The thing I find interesting about the whole thing, though, is that while it's statistically likely that the gene isn't present in Victoria's descendants today, it's very possible that it's still present in some lines. I mean... you can guarantee that Elizabeth II isn't a carrier, as she descends from Victoria in a male-line and her father wasn't a haemophiliac. And the DoE doesn't have it, so he didn't get it through his mother, a female-line descendant of Victoria. But it's possible that the DoE's great-niece, Princess Katarina of Yugoslavia and Serbia is a carrier as she descends in an all female-line from Victoria. It's statistically unlikely as the trait hasn't shown itself in any of her great-grandmother's male descendants, but it's possible.
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  #157  
Old 12-13-2015, 03:29 AM
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And if there are any royals with haeomophilia: no problem. Unlike in Victorian Era, today with appropriate treatment the quality of life as well the lifespan are pretty normal.
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  #158  
Old 12-13-2015, 03:36 AM
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Gross, maybe, but totally legal. Remember, Queen Victoria married her first cousin and had lots of children with him.
King Willem III of the Netherlands married his full cousine Princess Sophie von Württemberg. The King's mother, Anna Paulovna Romanova, Grand-Duchess of Russia, was a sister to the Princess' mother, Catharina Paulovna Romanova, Grand-Duchess of Russia... This was pretty normal, also in normal life. The famer's daughter likely would marry the farmer next door who himself maybe was a cousin too: everything to keep the property in the family or to enlarge it. Marriage was not so much about love but about procreation.

In many cultures it is still the norm that the parents choose a partner and often, again to keep things entre nous, it are often relatives. The marriage of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert was, by the standards of those days, a normal relationship.
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  #159  
Old 12-13-2015, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
King Willem III of the Netherlands married his full cousine Princess Sophie von Württemberg. The King's mother, Anna Paulovna Romanova, Grand-Duchess of Russia, was a sister to the Princess' mother, Catharina Paulovna Romanova, Grand-Duchess of Russia... This was pretty normal, also in normal life. The famer's daughter likely would marry the farmer next door who himself maybe was a cousin too: everything to keep the property in the family or to enlarge it. Marriage was not so much about love but about procreation.

In many cultures it is still the norm that the parents choose a partner and often, again to keep things entre nous, it are often relatives. The marriage of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert was, by the standards of those days, a normal relationship.
But,the Queen Maria I da Gloria who married her uncle and married their son to her sister...
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  #160  
Old 12-13-2015, 09:54 AM
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That is an extreme but even then: the throne of Portugal remained in the male agnatic line. By marrying her uncle she avoided a succession war. Back then in 1760 the knowledge of genetica was not like today.
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