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  #41  
Old 09-10-2006, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SusanE
Yes, they were; I did not say they weren't. You refer to diseases Victoria and Albert's children could not avoid because their parents were cousins. Which diseases? The fact that Victoria and Albert were cousins has nothing to do with hemophilia. If Albert had the hemophilia gene, he would have been hemophiliac and we know he wasn't. Victoria would have passed the hemophilia gene on regardless of whom she married. Victoria had the hemophilia gene either because of a spontaneous mutation or because there was hemophilia in her mother's family as I previously posted.
But if the haemophilia came from Victoria's mother side and Albert and she were cousins of her mother's side, I guess you mean Albert was very lucky to not be heamophiliac too.
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  #42  
Old 09-10-2006, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Furienna
But if the haemophilia came from Victoria's mother side and Albert and she were cousins of her mother's side, I guess you mean Albert was very lucky to not be heamophiliac too.
No, I don't mean Albert was lucky not to have hemophilia. There is no way he could have gotten hemophilia from that side of the family. Hemophilia is passed on by the mother who gives her sons one of her X genes. If that X gene carries the hemophilia gene, then the son will be a hemophiliac. Hemophilia is carried only on the X gene. It is not carried on the Y gene which males receive from their fathers. Albert's father was the brother of Victoria's mother and therefore Albert received a Y chromosome from that side of the family. Even if a man is a hemophiliac, there is no way he can pass the hemophilia gene, which is on his X chromosome, to his sons because he passes a Y chromosome to the sons.

I posted this before but I will post it again. What follows is how hemophilia is transmitted. Hemophilia is transmitted on the X chromosome and it is a recessive trait. Women have XX chromosomes and men have XY chromosomes. Each person gets 1 chromosome from each parent. A woman has XX chromosome so she can only pass an X chromosome onto her children. A man has XY and can pass either chromosome on so the father determines the child's sex. If the father passes the X, it's a girl and if the father passes the Y, it's a boy. Now let's look at a woman carrying hemophilia. The hemophilia gene will be on only 1 of her chromosomes so the carrier mother has a 50% chance of passing on the chromosome with hemophilia. If she passes the chromosome on to a daughter, that daughter will be a carrier. The daughter will not have hemophilia because she has a healthy X chromosome from her father. But if the mother passes that X chromosome on to a boy, he will be a hemophiliac. The only way for a female to be a hemophiliac is for her to be the daughter of a carrier and a hemophiliac. The daughter of a hemophiliac will always be a carrier because her father can only pass on an X chromosome with hemophilia on it. However a hemophiliac's sons will not have hemophilia because the hemophiliac father will pass on a Y chromosome and his wife will pass on a healthy X chromosome.

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  #43  
Old 09-10-2006, 06:35 PM
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Okay, now I get you!
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  #44  
Old 09-15-2006, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Furienna
I don't think Margareth was dyslectic though. Didn't she write books? And I even wonder if Gustaf VI Adolf would have wanted a woman, who people thought was stupid.
If a princess was dyslexic, surely her governess would have noticed and started reading to her. Later a lot of Royal ladies had their own readers (eg Elisabeth of Austria) who read to them while they dressed for festive occassions or even on taking a walk. As for writing letters or even books: a secretary would not have appeared overly strange. So no problem covering up.
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  #45  
Old 09-15-2006, 05:06 AM
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I read that in medieval times haemophilia was so common among Europe's nobles that it was called the "malaise des rois" or disease of kings. As Queen Victoria's ancestors from her mother's side were mostly from Central European nobility and the disease can lie low for several generations one can imagine that it did not start with her but she inherited it. Maybe the close relation to her husband from this side of the family "awoke" the disease as I found in a report that this can happen.

Has anyone followed the family tree of the other daughter of Victoria of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, born princess of Leiningen? her daughter married a prince of Hohenlohe-Langenburg and had a daughter who married a duke of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg. And two of her three sons died within the first two years after their birth. You can find the dates here: http://www.thepeerage.com/p10368.htm#i103673 under Adelheid princess of Hohenlohe-Langenburg. The interesting thing is that Adelheid's daughter Auguste Viktoria became Wilhelm II.'s empress, the emperor being a grandson of queen Victoria... Were there haemophiliacs in this branch of the Prussian Royal family?

Following the family tree in the female line you end up with princess Sophia of Greece, today the queen of Spain and then her daughters... Well, they seem to be healty enough...

Another Royal with these genes in the female line is Sybilla of Saxe, Crown princess of Sweden, mother of king Carl XVI. Gustaf... This branch seems to be healthy as well.
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  #46  
Old 09-15-2006, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
If a princess was dyslexic, surely her governess would have noticed and started reading to her. Later a lot of Royal ladies had their own readers (eg Elisabeth of Austria) who read to them while they dressed for festive occassions or even on taking a walk. As for writing letters or even books: a secretary would not have appeared overly strange. So no problem covering up.
Oh... We still don't know about Margareth though. We only know, that many of her descendants (Prince Gustav Adolf, King Carl XVI Gustaf and his children) have been dyslectics.
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  #47  
Old 09-15-2006, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
I read that in medieval times haemophilia was so common among Europe's nobles that it was called the "malaise des rois" or disease of kings.
I've never read anything about hemophilia being prevalent in European nobles in medieval times. Can you post a source so others can read about it? When I Google "disease of kings," pages of references to gout come up.

The only hemophilia in the Prussian royal family were the two sons of Prince Henry, son of Victoria, Princess Royal, and Princess Irene of Hesse-Darmstadt, daughter of Princess Alice. The hemophilia gene came from Princess Alice, daughter of Queen Victoria.

As I have explained before, Albert's close relation to Victoria had nothing to do with the hemophilia in the family. If Albert had the hemophilia gene, he would have been a hemophiliac. See my previous post in this thread posted on 9/10/06 for an explanation.
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  #48  
Old 09-17-2006, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SusanE
I've never read anything about hemophilia being prevalent in European nobles in medieval times. Can you post a source so others can read about it? When I Google "disease of kings," pages of references to gout come up.
See: http://www.haemophilieportal.de/WebA...plate=78&LNG=1

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A4mophilie

http://www.werlhof-institut.de/Patie...en/content.htm

http://ärzte-aktuell.de/index.php/Bluter

and other medical pages in German. Just google Haemophilie or "Bluterkrankheit" and "Krankheit der Könige" and you'll find the links.
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  #49  
Old 09-17-2006, 05:53 PM
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My high school and college German has not been used for many years and I'm not able to completely understand those links. I used Babel Fish to translate and the only reference to hemophilia in nobles of the middle ages was in the Wikipedia article and in the last article listed which appears to be exactly the same as the Wikipedia article. There are no families named. What noble families had hemophilia?

I've read a lot about hemophilia and about the middle ages and never read about hemophilia being prevalent in noble families then. It wasn't even named "hemophilia" until 1828. Jewish texts of the second century AD mention the exemption of male boys from circumcision if two previous brother had died of bleeding after the procedure. The first modern description of hemophilia is attributed to Dr. John Conrad Otto, a doctor in Philadelphia, who in 1803 published a treatise entitled "An account of an haemorrhagic disposition existing in certain families." The genetics of the disease were not understood until the 20th century.
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  #50  
Old 09-24-2006, 01:02 PM
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Has it absolutely been publicly acknowledged that Haemophilia doesn't exist in these royal families? I would love to know the source. Will we really know if not? The reason I ask is that there are plenty of blood clotting medications in existance today that weren't around when royal members were dying off. So the dangers of this illness are as risky as they back then. Someone educate me please if these answers are known. Thanks.
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  #51  
Old 09-24-2006, 01:44 PM
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I think we would know about haemophilia in the current royal families, if it existed. We know more about it today, and I see no reason for it being kept secret in our time and age.
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  #52  
Old 09-24-2006, 03:37 PM
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Hemophilia in royal families appears to have died out.

Queen Victoria's youngest son Leopold was a hemophiliac. He had 2 children: a daughter Alice, who had to be a carrier and a son Charles who had to be unaffected as I have explained in previous posts. Alice had a son and a daughter. The son was hemophiliac and died in a car accident at age 21 so his line stopped. It is possible Alice's daughter was a carrier but so far none of her descendants have hemophilia but that doesn't necessarily mean she was not a carrier.

Queen Victoria's 2nd daughter Alice was a carrier. Alice married Grand Duke Louis of Hesse-Darmstadt. Their son Friedrich (Frittie) was hemophiliac. When Frittie was 3, he came running into Alice's room and was running so fast that he fell out the window. By evening he was dead due to the uncontrollable bleeding.

Alice's daughter Irene married Prince Henry of Prussia. They had 2 hemophiliac sons but no daughters. One of Irene's sons died at age 4. The other, Waldemar, actually survived for quite a while. Waldemar died at age 56 and he had married but had no children. So the hemophilia from Frittie and Irene died out.

Alice's youngest surviving daughter was Alix who married Nicholas II of Russia and became Alexandra Feodorovna. And as we know, their son Alexei was a hemophiliac. We do not know if any of their 5 daughters were carriers but it is probable. So hemophilia did not descend through this line since all the children were killed.

Victoria's youngest daughter Beatrice was also a carrier. Beatrice had 3 sons and 1 daughter. Her son Leopold was a sufferer but he died at age 23 with no children. Her son Maurice also died at age 23 with no children...he MAY have had hemophilia. So there is no hemophilia descent through Beatrice's sons. Her daughter Victoria Eugenie known as Ena was a carrier and brought hemophilia into the Spanish Royal Family. Ena married King Alfonso XIII of Spain and they are the grandparents of King Juan Carlos of Spain...but there is no hemophilia in that line. Three of Ena's sons had hemophilia...one was stillborn. Her son Alfonso had it but he died in a car accident at age 31. He married but had no children. Her son Gonzalo also had it and he died in a car accident at age 20. So there is no hemophilia descent through any of Ena's sons. Now Ena had a daughter Beatriz and she is a possible carrier but none of her descendants have hemophilia. If it still exists, it is in the descendants of Beatriz, who was King Juan Carlos's aunt or in the descendants of Alice, the daughter of Prince Leopold. All the other lines have died out.
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  #53  
Old 09-24-2006, 05:07 PM
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I appreciate all of the replies especially SusanE's complete breakdown. Maybe we just won't ever know about Beatriz or Alice's lines. Thanks again.
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  #54  
Old 02-01-2007, 01:01 PM
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I think that all of the European Royal famalies may have been quietly researching this topic on their own now for years. It seems to me that recently some sort of conformation may have been made to these famalies in regards to the genetic downfalls of intermarrying. Just look at all of the royal famalies bringing in new blood! I don't think that this is coincidence.

Let's see.....
Hakon & MM
Fredrick & Mary
Wilehm & Maxima
Felipe & letizia
Victoria of Sweden & Daniel (probably to marry)
William & Kate (most likely to marry but you never know)
Even the Japanese RF Narhuito & Masako

Royal brothers & sisters of heir apparents are marrying new blood now whereas before this was unthinkable. The media seems to try to spin this as Royals marrying for love which may be true (Royals trying to avoid the whole Diana & Charles thing) which makes a very romantic and great story but there seems to be more to this than meets the eye. Even the some of the older Royal generations did not marry royal (King of Sweden) which is definately a good thing!! Could you imagine the genetic disorders/diseases that may have occured if he had - seeing as how it's possible he passed down dyslexia to his present children had he intermarryed imagine what the health ramifications could have been to those children. Same with Norway, maybe there were illness' that the public was not aware of that tipped off the Royals to hunt for new blood.

I thought this article was very good. Thank you for posting.
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  #55  
Old 03-31-2007, 09:11 PM
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Here you have to good links to Hemophilia and his treatment, today and before all the new discoverings were made:

Hemophilia of the Sunshine State

Welcome to the National Hemophilia Foundation

In one of them (I don't remember which one, and it even could have been in a book I have in Spanish about Hemophilia) it's said that hemophilia was common at Middle Age BUT NOT in noble families. Only with when Queen Victoria there was a cromosoma mutation (at least it seems that this was the case, since Queen Victoria's family never suffered from hemophilia before ) and hemophilia appeared in European noble houses...

Vanesa.
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  #56  
Old 03-31-2007, 09:56 PM
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Hi Vanessa,
If you look further towards the begining of this thread you will find some articles I posted which seem to indicate that the disease had appeared in Victoria's maternal family several generations before. There were an extraordinary number of infants & toddlers who died young. This seems to point towards childhood accidents made more serious, even life threatening, by haemophilia.
When you consider that Victoria had a half-sister & half-brother, both apparently clear of the haemophilia gene, then the usual 50/50 laws of probablility appear to have played out.
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  #57  
Old 04-01-2007, 07:52 PM
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Thank you, Wymanda. Yes. It is true. You already wrote about the disease being in Queen Victoria's family some generations before her birth. So, Robert K. Massie (the "Nicholas and Alexandra" author, and who has an hemophile son himself) must have been wrong. He quoted Queen Victoria's saying something over the lines of: "This disease was not in our family ", when he knew for sure that her son, the Duke of Albany suffered from it. Now I think she could have said it hidding behind negationism. But maybe she ignored that some of her relatives had suffered from a bleeding disease.

And now, just a little of national pride: as you know, there is two kinds different of hemophilia. The first one, is the one where Factor VIII cloture lacks in the patient blood. It is known as hemophilia "A". Then , there is the second one; in it, is Factor IX who is not present in the blood. This is "hemophilia "B". Well, it was an Argentine doctor, Alfredo Pavlovsky who discovered this fact in 1944. This is very important for the treatment. The hemophiliacs who suffers from the first kind of hemophilia must use Factor VIII extraction as cloturer when they bleed. The others , must ask for Factor IX. If you , hemophiliac uses the wrong factor, your bleeding would not stop.

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Old 04-07-2007, 09:12 PM
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In Robert K. Massie's book Nicholas and Alexandra, he says that there may still be the gene out there, and a future boy may be born with it, but that so far nobody has had it in the fifth?, sixth?, and seventh? generations.

sorry I get my generations confused
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  #59  
Old 04-08-2007, 02:50 PM
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Maybe you knowit or maybe not Haemophilia in Queen Victoria's Descendants
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  #60  
Old 03-03-2008, 01:41 AM
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Princess Sibilla of Luxembourg (nee Weiller) is a descendant through the female line of Queen Victoria. As far as I know none of her three sons have Haemophillia. It is possible that her daughter, Princess Charlotte could be acarrier.
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