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  #41  
Old 03-16-2015, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is interesting that people stress royals should follow their heart etc. etc. but when they have found a partner, really all efforts are done to trace any blue blood somewhere...

It is widely known by genealogists that everyone has both royal and commoner ancestors. As we say in France, "tout le monde descend d'un roi et d'un pendu" ("everyone is descended from a king and a hanged man"). So it is common practice to try to find hanged men in a king's ancestors, and royal in a commoner's ancestors.
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  #42  
Old 03-19-2015, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is interesting that people stress royals should follow their heart etc. etc. but when they have found a partner, really all efforts are done to trace any blue blood somewhere...

You took the words right out of my mouth Duc. I thought that Kate's great appeal-to her fans anyway-is that she is not an aristocrat, that she is the girl-next-door descendant of coal miners? Isn't that what the public, and more pointedly William-wanted? Surely if he'd wanted a true noblewoman he could have married one.

And yet, almost before the ink was dry on the engagement announcement the Middletons were having a Coat-of-Arms and signet rings designed for themselves, and here are some posters eagerly searching for any sign of Royal descent?
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  #43  
Old 03-20-2015, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
You took the words right out of my mouth Duc. I thought that Kate's great appeal-to her fans anyway-is that she is not an aristocrat, that she is the girl-next-door descendant of coal miners? Isn't that what the public, and more pointedly William-wanted? Surely if he'd wanted a true noblewoman he could have married one.

And yet, almost before the ink was dry on the engagement announcement the Middletons were having a Coat-of-Arms and signet rings designed for themselves, and here are some posters eagerly searching for any sign of Royal descent?
William wanted Catherine. He has never commented on her genealogy. He rarely comments on his own. The British media(which is mostly owned by aristocrats), is much more snobbish than the BRF. The only way they can justify to themselves that Catherine is worthy of love as if she has a drop of blue blood. As they see it, commoners and complex emotions don't mix. They have a very low opinion of their readership.

As for the Coat-of-Arms, all royal brides are required to get them. Sophie Rhys-Jones had to have one designed too. I read that the signet rings that Carole, Pippa, and James occasionally wear are not Family Crests, but rather the Arms/Silks of the race horse stable that Middleton's have partial ownership in. I know it sounds zany, but as a racing fan I can assure you that horse owners take their position very seriously.

For example, the very pampered horse Tiago is owned by the Moss family. All their premier horses drink Evian water, exclusively.
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  #44  
Old 03-20-2015, 08:09 AM
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The genealogy of the British Royals has already been established so they are always going to do the genealogy of the person marrying into especially when that person is going to be Queen and their children future monarchs.

It is always going to be easier to find the more wealthier side of a family since there will be more of paper trail than a poorer side. So the aristocrat will be found but the illiterate laborer not at all.


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  #45  
Old 04-21-2015, 02:32 AM
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I noticed that on this thread some have said the Duchess of Cambridge is descended from George Washington. This is impossible, George Washington had no children, just two stepchildren, so no one is directly descended from him.
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  #46  
Old 04-21-2015, 03:17 AM
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I believe it is something like she is a descendant of the sister of Martha Washington.... or something like that.
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  #47  
Old 04-21-2015, 06:26 AM
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Kate and George Washington are cousins

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-research.html


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  #48  
Old 05-06-2017, 07:06 PM
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What kings or nobles is Kate related to, who Princess Diana is not related to?
I hope this is not off topic.
I know Diana and the Windsors have both brought ancestry from every royal house in Europe.
But what does Catherine bring to the table?
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  #49  
Old 05-06-2017, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
What kings or nobles is Kate related to, who Princess Diana is not related to?
I hope this is not off topic.
I know Diana and the Windsors have both brought ancestry from every royal house in Europe.
But what does Catherine bring to the table?
Herself and thats what mattered/s to William
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  #50  
Old 05-06-2017, 08:15 PM
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When you think of it, shake anyone's family tree hard enough and a lot of nuts fall out. Its interesting but actually the "bloodline" of a person has no bearing on who the person is.
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  #51  
Old 05-06-2017, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
What kings or nobles is Kate related to, who Princess Diana is not related to?
I hope this is not off topic.
I know Diana and the Windsors have both brought ancestry from every royal house in Europe.
But what does Catherine bring to the table?
You have to go far back to find any. One of her closest would be the ancestor she shares with Diana, Thomas Fairfax who was a descendent of Edward III.

Through an ancestor of her mother, sir thomas Blackistn Coyner, She is a descendent of Edward IV. They are descended from Edwards bastard daughter Elizabeth with his mistress Elizabeth Lucy. But that family was already related to the windsors before Kate. Thomas' cousin Mary was married into the Bows-Lyon family and is the queen mums ancestress.
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  #52  
Old 05-07-2017, 08:54 AM
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(In reply to Osipi's quote)
True that!
Personality is everything!
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  #53  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
What kings or nobles is Kate related to, who Princess Diana is not related to?
I hope this is not off topic.
I know Diana and the Windsors have both brought ancestry from every royal house in Europe.
But what does Catherine bring to the table?
William didn't marry Kate because of her ancestry. In fact, no British royal has married someone because they brought new ancestors into the mix - some have certainly married because the prospective spouse had the right background or family, but nothing as simple as who their ancestors were.

That said, Kate's mother, Carol, is descended from Edward IV through one of his illegitimate children, Elizabeth FitzRoy in two different lines;
  • Carol's mother was Dorothy Harrison
  • Dorothy's father was Thomas Harrison
  • Thomas' father was John Harrison
  • John's mother was Jane Liddell
  • Jane's father was Anthony Liddell
  • Anthony's father was Jane Hardy
  • Jane's mother was Jane Conyers
  • Jane's father was Sir Thomas Conyers, 9th Baronet
  • Thomas' father was Sir Ralph Conyers, 5th Baronet
  • Ralph's father was John Conyers
  • John's father was another John Conyers
  • John's father was Sir John Conyers, 1st Baronet
  • John's father was Christopher Coyners of Horden
  • Christopher's mother was Isabel Lumley
  • Isabel's father was Roger Lumley
  • Roger's mother was Elizabeth FitzRoy
Going back a bit

  • Sir John Conyers, 1st Baronet's mother was Anne Hedworth
  • Anne's father was John Hedworth
  • John's mother was Anne Hilton
  • Anne's mother was Sybil Lumley
  • Sybil's mother was Elizabeth FitzRoy
The Queen and Diana's father are also descended from Elizabeth FitzRoy, but through other children of hers.



Kate's father, Michael Middleton, is descended from the Percy's:
  • Michael's father was Peter Francis Middleton
  • Peter's mother was Olivia Lupton
  • Olivia's father was Francis Martineau Lupton
  • Francis' mother was Frances Elizabeth Greenhow
  • Frances' mother was Elizabeth Martineau
  • Elizabeth's father was Thomas Martineau
  • Thomas' mother was Sarah Meadows
  • Sarah's father was Philip Meadows
  • Philip's father was Sarah Fairfax
  • Philip's mother was Sarah Fairfax
  • Sarah's father was Benjamin Fairfax
  • Benjamin's father was another Benjamin Fairfax
  • Benjamin's father was John Fairax
  • John's father was William Fairfax
  • William's mother was Anne Gascoigne
  • Anne's mother was Margaret Percy
  • Margaret's father was Henry Percy, 3rd Earl of Northumberland
Diana's father is descended from Anne Gascoigne through another one of her children, and the Queen is also descended from Henry Percy. Henry's great-grandparents, Ralph de Neville, 1st Earl of Westmorland and Joan Beaufort, are also ancestors of the Duke of Edinburgh (through a different line). Joan's father was John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster, who is an ancestor of Diana's mother through another one of his children. I believe John of Gaunt is actually the most recent common ancestor of the Queen, the DoE, both of Diana's parents, and both of Kate's parents.
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  #54  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:55 PM
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Do Diana, Kate, The Queen & the DoE all have any other common ancestors?
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  #55  
Old 05-16-2017, 07:11 PM
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When you think about it, you go far back enough and we all have common ancestors somewhere along the line.

Its an interesting hobby tracing lineages and it sounds like you have been bitten by the genealogy bug. It takes a bit of dedication and willingness to do research but the information is out there if you really want to look for it.

Its also very possible too that if you have any kind of European ancestry in your family, you start digging and you can find that you, yourself may be distantly related to royalty or the aristocracy somewhere.
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  #56  
Old 05-16-2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Do Diana, Kate, The Queen & the DoE all have any other common ancestors?
That's the most recent royal ancestry that Kate has (and as such is the most recent common ancestry with her in-laws) that's been traced.

Of course, all the ancestors of Edward IV or the Percys are in turn ancestors of Kate, Diana, the Queen, and the DoE... Edward IV lived in the 15th century, his ancestry can be traced back about a thousand years, even longer if you really delve into the more mythical ancestry. There's a lot of common ancestors at that point.

There's very likely more royal ancestry in Kate's genealogy, but we'll likely never know it. If you go back far enough you're going to find either noble or royal ancestors, the key is being able to go back far enough. That is actually rather tricky to do if you come from recent common ancestors - the ancestry of "commoners" wasn't as well recorded. I mean, even know it's fairly typical for people to not know their grandparents' parents' names, let alone when and where they were born, or died, or so on - making doing the research rather difficult.
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