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  #21  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Deborah View Post
Then we are cousins!
What resources are available to study details from that far back? Court records? Diaries and journals?
Good to hear from you.
Yes, that we are

Depends on which country you deal with. If you're dealing with her and Henry II, then there is quite a bit of info in various places...namely court rolls, pipe rolls, catalogues of ancient deeds etc. If you'd like some links to these, I can give them to you. There mightn't be too much in them about Eleanor as an individual, depends on what she was up to at the time. There are also plenty of historical texts written about her by historians and antiquarians such as Alison Weir, Lisa Hilton etc. They supply quite a few other texts and such in their appendices and bibliographies.

I would imagine that there are French records similar to the ones they have kept in England that would be of assistance to you.

Actually, Wikipedia has a very good rundown on her, with quite a few references for you to look at.... Eleanor of Aquitaine
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  #22  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:17 AM
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Yes I've seen wikipedia. I'm most interested in the French side and the life also of Alix de France.
How are you descended? From Eleanor and Henry II?
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  #23  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Deborah View Post
Yes I've seen wikipedia. I'm most interested in the French side and the life also of Alix de France.
How are you descended? From Eleanor and Henry II?
Yes, from Eleanor and Henry II. They're my 27th Great Grandparents

You also know that through her you have a blood link to Brooke Shields and a number of other celebrities
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  #24  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:51 AM
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I'm aware of many descendants, yes. Actually more interested in elenor's ancestors I.e.Charlemagne et al
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  #25  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Deborah View Post
I'm aware of many descendants, yes. Actually more interested in elenor's ancestors I.e.Charlemagne et al
Just one of her famous ancestors. She's also a great grand-daughter of Rollo as well. Henry "The Fowler" is another. Her mother and grandmother were known as very beautiful women, as well as herself.
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  #26  
Old 12-15-2010, 12:03 PM
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I don't think that last attribute of hers has made it down to me LOL!
I'm fortunate to have the descent details from her down through the centuries.
Near where I live there is a house /museum which was built in 1781. When I give tours or attend events (I'm on the board of the place) I dress in formal dress from that period and portray one of my ancestors who i know lived during that time and was even my approximate whe in 1781! It's a lot of fun and visitors love the touch of authenticity!
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  #27  
Old 12-16-2010, 08:43 AM
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That would be very interesting to go to
I imagine you get a lot of enjoyment out of dressing up in the part

There are different forms of beauty, you know. Eleanor and many of the other girls in the family have the looks, but there are others who also take it to other dimensions. Phillipa of Hainault was a very kind and compassionate lady, liked by everyone...for instance. Some were very intellectual (Eleanor was no slouch when it came to the brains department), such as Leonilla Baryatinskaya and Anna Komnene. There's a painting of Leonilla in the J Paul Getty Museum, in LA. She was 27 at the time. Nice painting, actually. Anna wrote the Alexiad...a biography of her father Alexios Komnenos, the Byzantine Emperor...apart from a number of other works. She was one of the first women historians.

There's much to commend the women in the family, even today.
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  #28  
Old 06-14-2012, 03:53 AM
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CHARLES IX FRANCE CHARLES MAXIMILLIAN CAPETHOUSE VALOIS VALOIS ANGOULEME
AKA Charles IX King of France 1561-74
Charles IX, King of France, was the third son of Henri II and Catherine de Medici. At first he bore the title of Duke of Orleans.

Father: Henri II
Mother: Catherine de Medici
Brother: Francis II
Brother: Henri III
Wife: Elisabeth of Austria (m. 26-Nov-1570)
Daughter: Marie-Elisabeth (b. 27-Oct-1572, d. 9-Apr-1578)
Son: Charles (by Marie Touchet)
Mistress: Marie Touchet

He was my 14th Great Grandfather does that make me any kind of royalty?
LOUISE DESAVOIE SAVOY was my 17th Great Grandmother
so could I be royalty? My 14th Great Grandfather was KIng Charles IX King of France 1561-74
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  #29  
Old 06-14-2012, 03:26 PM
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No. You are a descendant of royalty.
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  #30  
Old 04-09-2013, 01:28 PM
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So am I....
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  #31  
Old 05-30-2015, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Ileana is also a descendant of Prince Vlad II Dracul of Wallachia,Byzantine Emperors as well as the descendant of the Kings of France and House of Capet,House of her husband...here is her line:



King Henri I of France,lived from 1008-1060
I
Prince Hughes I Magnus of France,Count of Vermadois et de Valois,lived from 1057-1101
I
Princess Agnes of France,Countess of Vermandois,died in 1125
I
Marquis Manfredo I de Vasto of Saluzzo,lived from 1090-1175
I
Marquis Anselmo de Bosco
I
Marquise Elena de Bosco,married before 1178
I
Marquis Guillermo VIII of Monferrato,lived from 1773-1225
I
Marquis Boniface II of Monferrato,lived from 1202-1256
I
Marquis Guillermo IX of Monferrato,lived from 1243-1292
I
Marquise Yolanda de Monferrato,Regent of Thessaloniki,lived from 1274-1313
I
Prince Demetrios Angelodukas Palaiologos of Byzantium,lived from 1296-1343
I
Princess Eirene Palaiologos of Thessaloniki,married in 1341
I
Prince Theodorus Palaiologos Kantakuzenos,Sebastokrator and Despot of Moreia,lived from 1361-1410
I
Princess Eirene Palaiologos Kantakuzenos,lived from 1400-1457
I
Prince Stephan Brankovic,Despot of Raska,lived from 1425-1476
I
Prince Jovan Brankovic,Despot of Raitzen,lived from 1465-1502
I
Princess Jelena Brankovic,strangled in 1552
I
Princess Ruxandra Rares,Regent of Moldavia,lived from 1537-1570
I
Ilias,Ruler of Wallachia
I
Alexandru Ilias,Duke of Wallachia
I
Ilias Alexandru,Duke o Wallachia from 1666-1668
I
Princess Sultane Chrysokula of Wallachia,died in 1694
I
Princess Helene Mavrocordato,lived from 1682-1722
I
Princess Marioara Rosetti
I
Michael Soutzo,Prince of Wallachia and Moldavia,lived from 1729-1803
I
Princess Marioara Soutzo,died in 1846
I
Sevastia Argyropoulo,lived from 1806-1883
I
Trasybulos Manos,lived from 1835-1922
I
Konstantinos Manos,lived from 1869-1913
I
Alexander Manos,lived from 1903-1979
I
Konstantinos Manos,born in 1937
I
ILEANA MANOS,Duchesse de Chartres,born in 1971
Greetings, I have just read with great interest your illuminating post but I am unable to further research the subject with my current sources, if you could be so kind could you help me in providing me with your sources and if possible a diagram that presents the marriages and the clear picture of the linage from Henri I of Frankia to her today... it is of the utmost importance to my overall research and I would be in your dept.

Kind Regards
Alec
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  #32  
Old 07-19-2015, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex93 View Post
Greetings, I have just read with great interest your illuminating post but I am unable to further research the subject with my current sources, if you could be so kind could you help me in providing me with your sources and if possible a diagram that presents the marriages and the clear picture of the linage from Henri I of Frankia to her today... it is of the utmost importance to my overall research and I would be in your dept.

Kind Regards
Alec
King Henri I of France,lived from 1008-1060
I
Prince Hughes I Magnus of France,Count of Vermadois et de Valois,lived from 1057-1101
I
Princess Agnes of France,Countess of Vermandois,died in 1125
I
Marquis Manfredo I de Vasto of Saluzzo,lived from 1090-1175
I
Marquis Anselmo de Bosco
I
Marquise Elena de Bosco,married before 1178
I
Marquis Guillermo VIII of Monferrato,lived from 1773-1225
I
Marquis Boniface II of Monferrato,lived from 1202-1256
I
Marquis Guillermo IX of Monferrato,lived from 1243-1292
I
Marquise Yolanda de Monferrato,Regent of Thessaloniki,lived from 1274-1313
I
Prince Demetrios Angelodukas Palaiologos of Byzantium,lived from 1296-1343
I
Princess Eirene Palaiologos of Thessaloniki,married in 1341
I
Prince Theodorus Palaiologos Kantakuzenos,Sebastokrator and Despot of Moreia,lived from 1361-1410
I
Princess Eirene Palaiologos Kantakuzenos,lived from 1400-1457
I
Prince Stephan Brankovic,Despot of Raska,lived from 1425-1476
I
Princess Milica Brankovic of Raska,lived from 1474-1554
I
Prince Teodosie Basarab of Wallachia,reigned from 1521-1522
I
Prince Radu Serban Basarab of Wallachia,reigned from 1602-1610,died in 1611
I
Princess Elena Basarab-Craiovescu of Wallachia,lived from 1611-1697
I
Prince Serban III Cantacuzene,lived from 1635-1688
I
Prince Gheorghe Cantacuzene,lived from 1680-1739
I
Prince Matei Cantacuzene,also Reischgraf Kantakuzen,born in 1717
I
Prince Nicolae Cantacuzene
I
Princess Maria Cantacuzene-Craiovescu,married in 1781
I
Boyarine Ruxandra Racovitza of Buzau,died in 1866
I
Princess Euphrosine Soutzos,lived from 1830-1878
I
Roxane Mavromichalis,lived from 1848-1905
I
Konstantinos Manos,lived from 1869-1913
I
Alexander Manos,lived from 1903-1979
I
Konstantinos Manos,born in 1937
I
ILEANA MANOS,Duchesse de Chartres,born in 1971
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  #33  
Old 07-19-2015, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex93 View Post
Greetings, I have just read with great interest your illuminating post but I am unable to further research the subject with my current sources, if you could be so kind could you help me in providing me with your sources and if possible a diagram that presents the marriages and the clear picture of the linage from Henri I of Frankia to her today... it is of the utmost importance to my overall research and I would be in your dept.

Kind Regards
Alec
Hello Alex93,I posted another line from King Henri I of France to Ileana Manos...

To your response,I was mixing resources because,not all of them are that complete...sources are Genealogy index by Miroslav Marek and Genealogics.org by Leo van de Pas...

For some names missing in those genealogy sites I used google in romanian language,such as the name of Teodosie of Wallachia who ruled briefly from 1521-1522...
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  #34  
Old 07-27-2015, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Hello Alex93,I posted another line from King Henri I of France to Ileana Manos...

To your response,I was mixing resources because,not all of them are that complete...sources are Genealogy index by Miroslav Marek and Genealogics.org by Leo van de Pas...

For some names missing in those genealogy sites I used google in romanian language,such as the name of Teodosie of Wallachia who ruled briefly from 1521-1522...

Dear Marc,

Forgive me for not responding to your message at a faster passe but a plethora of affairs have kept me from the Royal Forums for a while now.

Thank you for your reply but forgive me but I must say both lines of descend you have presented so far are utterly wrong, please allow me to show you the mistakes.

In the first line of descent of Henry I to Ileana Manos you had shown a rather correct descent up until Ruxandra (daughter of Petru Rares and Jelena Brankovic and wife of Alexandru Lapusneanu) unfortunately her "son" shown in your line named Ilias (he was heir pretender to the throne) was in fact not her son but her stepson (his mother is not known to us but Alexandru Xenopol and Nicolae Iorga as well as all other prominent Romanian Historians/Genealogists never state Ilias as Ruxandra's son) so this line I am afraid cannot stand.

Regarding your second line of descent from Henry I to Ileana Manos I am afraid I must also here state that it is wrong, Radu X Serban was in no way linked to Theodosie Basarab. Theodosie the son of Neagoe Basarab and Milica Brankovic had no known sons and as far as we know he was never married, Radu X Serban is possible that was descendent from Neagoe (according to Xenopol and Watson) but this requires an in depth research, the certain is that Radu was in no way a descendant of that particular Theodosie so this line is also incorrect.

If you wish (and it would be my pleasure)) we could together strive to find the correct line and exchange sources, but regarding this particular dual line of descent the mother of Ilias and (possibly) the father and mother of Radu X Serban have no Capetian/Montferrat/Palaiologos blood in their veins.

Looking Forward to hear from you

Kind Regards
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  #35  
Old 07-27-2015, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex93 View Post
Dear Marc,

Forgive me for not responding to your message at a faster passe but a plethora of affairs have kept me from the Royal Forums for a while now.

Thank you for your reply but forgive me but I must say both lines of descend you have presented so far are utterly wrong, please allow me to show you the mistakes.

In the first line of descent of Henry I to Ileana Manos you had shown a rather correct descent up until Ruxandra (daughter of Petru Rares and Jelena Brankovic and wife of Alexandru Lapusneanu) unfortunately her "son" shown in your line named Ilias (he was heir pretender to the throne) was in fact not her son but her stepson (his mother is not known to us but Alexandru Xenopol and Nicolae Iorga as well as all other prominent Romanian Historians/Genealogists never state Ilias as Ruxandra's son) so this line I am afraid cannot stand.

Regarding your second line of descent from Henry I to Ileana Manos I am afraid I must also here state that it is wrong, Radu X Serban was in no way linked to Theodosie Basarab. Theodosie the son of Neagoe Basarab and Milica Brankovic had no known sons and as far as we know he was never married, Radu X Serban is possible that was descendent from Neagoe (according to Xenopol and Watson) but this requires an in depth research, the certain is that Radu was in no way a descendant of that particular Theodosie so this line is also incorrect.

If you wish (and it would be my pleasure)) we could together strive to find the correct line and exchange sources, but regarding this particular dual line of descent the mother of Ilias and (possibly) the father and mother of Radu X Serban have no Capetian/Montferrat/Palaiologos blood in their veins.

Looking Forward to hear from you

Kind Regards
Thank you for your answer and corrections...

I stand corrected for in possible way and look forward in some more research regarding this ancestry...

I searched for ancestry of Radu Serban and found this:

https://books.google.rs/books?id=ZAB...Serban&f=false


If this is correct that means that Radu Serban has descended from Zrinyi,Subich,Bathory families which means that Ileana also has it's blood...
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  #36  
Old 07-27-2015, 01:45 PM
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But if the genealogy of the Cantacuzene family is correct then we could also find this line:


King Henri I of France,lived from 1008-1060
I
Prince Hughes I Magnus of France,Count of Vermadois et de Valois,lived from 1057-1101
I
Princess Agnes of France,Countess of Vermandois,died in 1125
I
Marquis Manfredo I de Vasto of Saluzzo,lived from 1090-1175
I
Marquis Anselmo de Bosco
I
Marquise Elena de Bosco,married before 1178
I
Marquis Guillermo VIII of Monferrato,lived from 1773-1225
I
Marquis Boniface II of Monferrato,lived from 1202-1256
I
Marquis Guillermo IX of Monferrato,lived from 1243-1292
I
Marquise Yolanda de Monferrato,Regent of Thessaloniki,lived from 1274-1313
I
Prince Demetrios Angelodukas Palaiologos of Byzantium,lived from 1296-1343
I
Princess Eirene Palaiologos of Thessaloniki,born in 1321
I
Prince Demetrios Kantakuzenos,born in 1343,Sebastocrator from 1355-1356
I
Prince Georgios Kantakuzenos,1390-1459
I
Prince Demetrios Kantakuzenos
I
Prince Mikhai Kantakuzenos,died in 1522
I
Prince Demetrios Cantacuzino,died in 1536
I
Prince Mikhai Cantacuzene,lived from 1515-1578
I
Prince Arkhon Cantacuzene,lived from 1553-1601
I
Prince Constantine Cantacuzene,Grand Boyar of Wallachia,lived from 1598-1663
I
Prince Sherban III Cantacuzene,lived from 1635-1688
I
Prince Gheorghe Cantacuzene,lived from 1680-1739
I
Prince Matei Cantacuzene,also Reischgraf Kantakuzen,born in 1717
I
Prince Nicolae Cantacuzene
I
Princess Maria Cantacuzene-Craiovescu,married in 1781
I
Boyarine Ruxandra Racovitza of Buzau,died in 1866
I
Princess Euphrosine Soutzos,lived from 1830-1878
I
Roxane Mavromichalis,lived from 1848-1905
I
Konstantinos Manos,lived from 1869-1913
I
Alexander Manos,lived from 1903-1979
I
Konstantinos Manos,born in 1937
I
ILEANA MANOS,Duchesse de Chartres,born in 1971
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  #37  
Old 07-27-2015, 01:47 PM
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This was done by mixing Genealogy Index of Miroslav Marek, genealogics.org by Leo van de Pas and Cantacuzene family genealogy:

http://ghika.net/Familles/Cantacuzino/Canta_03.pdf
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  #38  
Old Today, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
But if the genealogy of the Cantacuzene family is correct then we could also find this line:


King Henri I of France,lived from 1008-1060
I
Prince Hughes I Magnus of France,Count of Vermadois et de Valois,lived from 1057-1101
I
Princess Agnes of France,Countess of Vermandois,died in 1125
I
Marquis Manfredo I de Vasto of Saluzzo,lived from 1090-1175
I
Marquis Anselmo de Bosco
I
Marquise Elena de Bosco,married before 1178
I
Marquis Guillermo VIII of Monferrato,lived from 1773-1225
I
Marquis Boniface II of Monferrato,lived from 1202-1256
I
Marquis Guillermo IX of Monferrato,lived from 1243-1292
I
Marquise Yolanda de Monferrato,Regent of Thessaloniki,lived from 1274-1313
I
Prince Demetrios Angelodukas Palaiologos of Byzantium,lived from 1296-1343
I
Princess Eirene Palaiologos of Thessaloniki,born in 1321
I
Prince Demetrios Kantakuzenos,born in 1343,Sebastocrator from 1355-1356
I
Prince Georgios Kantakuzenos,1390-1459
I
Prince Demetrios Kantakuzenos
I
Prince Mikhai Kantakuzenos,died in 1522
I
Prince Demetrios Cantacuzino,died in 1536
I
Prince Mikhai Cantacuzene,lived from 1515-1578
I
Prince Arkhon Cantacuzene,lived from 1553-1601
I
Prince Constantine Cantacuzene,Grand Boyar of Wallachia,lived from 1598-1663
I
Prince Sherban III Cantacuzene,lived from 1635-1688
I
Prince Gheorghe Cantacuzene,lived from 1680-1739
I
Prince Matei Cantacuzene,also Reischgraf Kantakuzen,born in 1717
I
Prince Nicolae Cantacuzene
I
Princess Maria Cantacuzene-Craiovescu,married in 1781
I
Boyarine Ruxandra Racovitza of Buzau,died in 1866
I
Princess Euphrosine Soutzos,lived from 1830-1878
I
Roxane Mavromichalis,lived from 1848-1905
I
Konstantinos Manos,lived from 1869-1913
I
Alexander Manos,lived from 1903-1979
I
Konstantinos Manos,born in 1937
I
ILEANA MANOS,Duchesse de Chartres,born in 1971
Ah yes indeed the good old Cantacuzene line of descent! Although many self proclaimed "medieval historians and genealogists" have tried to dismiss that ancestry they have not so far given any single proof of its cancellation. But let us take the matter step by step Marc for we must be precise here.

First: Steven Runciman the most revered Medievalist that the West ever produced states in his book "The Great Church in Captivity" : "(The Cantacuzene are) [the only family whose claim to be in the direct line from Byzantine Emperors was authentic] On the other hand we have David Nicol who has actually written an entire book on the Cantacuzene of the Eastern Roman Empire aka Byzantium creating assumptions with no solid backing such as its exclusion from the book of valid primary sources such us the Massarelli Vatican Manuscript!!! In my opinion Nicol (who a few years after his book was published wrote a small book called Ardenta and Coridgenta to actually back of from its original thesis!) stating that the Balkan Cantacuzene and the actual Imperial line of the family were not directly related is with no backing for the author does not provide a single historical evidence against the matter at hand rather stating something as a fact with no etymology!

Secondly: If we are to take as granted that the Imperial Cantacuzene Line was in fact the primogenitors of the later day Balkan Cantacuzene the following have to be taken into consideration. (A) The Russian Imperial Office of Heraldry investigated the matter thoroughly after Prince Rodion Nikolaevich Cantacuzenus petitiones them asking to receive the title of "Prince" in the basis that his ancestors were the Imperial Cantacuzene of the Empire. The Imperial Heralds after analysing the matter agreed that he was indeed a descendant of the Imperial Line and granted him the title. Now if the Russian Authorities on Nobility got it wrong I would be willing to be castrated and shut in a Monastery with ugly nuns to spent the rest of my life lol ... Now the problematic issue here is that the aforementioned Prince gave the following line of descent to the Authorities:

Emperor Ioannes VI 1292-1383
Matias/Matthew Co-Emperor 1325-83 husband of Eirene Palaiologina (whose blood leads back to what we look for Marc)
I
Despot Demetrios Cantacuzenus of Morea 1345-84
I
Andronikos Cantacuzenus (last Great Domestic of the Empire died five days after the fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans)
I
Zacharia Cantacuzenus
I
Michael Cantacuzenus
I
Teodor Cantacuzenus
I
Manuel Cantacuzenus
I
Isaak Cantacuzenus
I
Matias Cantacuzenus
I
Manuel Cantacuzenus
I
Alexios Cantacuzenus
I
Andronikos Cantacuzenus
I
Demetrios Cantacuzenus
I
Andronikos Cantacuzenus 1595

The tricky thing here is that this line has nothing to do with the one we are analysing it simply shows that the Cantacuzene very well survived the fall of the Empire but keep in mind the Grand Domestic Andronikos he is the key to the matter at hand for the line you have shown to me is based on the book of Sturdza "Grandes familles de Grèce, d'Albanie et de Constantinople" As much as I respect this great genealogist his sources appear to be as misguided on the matter of the Cantacuzene as Eugenios Rizos Rangabes is in his book "Livre d'or de la noblesse phanariot en Grèce, en Roumanie, en Russie et en Turquie" Both great genealogists have correctly asserted that the later day Cantacuzene are indeed direct descendants of the Imperial Cantacuzene but both show different lines but both are wrong for the Line survived only from the children of Andronikos the last Grande Domestic and I dont back this solely on the fact that the Russian SWAT Heralds agreed on it but by the fact that Jean Michel Cantacuzène has also revised his thesis on the linage of his ancestors based on the new foundings that came up after he had published his book 'Mille ans dans les Balkans: chronique des Cantacuzène dans la tourmente des siècles". Now he also points to Andronikos Cantacuzenos as the actual great-grandfather of Mihai Seitanoglou Cantacuzenos being himself the great-grandchild of Co-Emperor Matias/Matthew and Eirene Palaiologina, further into this matter found here https://www.academia.edu/2442284/Lem...post-byzantine

It seems that the actual line is thus Marc

Ioannes VI Kantakouzenos
I
Matthew Kantakouzenos (husband of Eirene)
I
Demetrios Kantakouzenos
I
Theodoros Kantakouzenos
I
Andronikos Kantakouzenos
I
Mihail Kantakouzenos
I
Demetrios Kantakouzenos
I
Mihail Seitanoglou Kantakouzenos

and the rest as you have shown

This I base on the Massarelli Vatican Manuscript regarding the parentage and offsprings of the key figure of Theodoros Kantakouzenos and the rest based on the research of the highly analytic, precise and accurate Jean Michele Cantacuzene whose research is truly of the utmost value to the current matter
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