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  #221  
Old 06-30-2014, 02:21 AM
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Hi Genegirl, I cannot trace my Pollock line to the middle ages--impressive that you could trace yours so far--but all of us Pollocks are descended from Robert Pollock who took that name in the 12th century. That would be 26,000 of us and counting.
I found more recently that Robert Pollock married Isabel Croce, the daughter of Sir Robert Croce, a knight and peer who lived next door to Robert Pollock, and his wife Eschyna de Molle. Eschyna was married secondly to Walter Fitzallen, the first High Steward. So Isabel Croce is half-sister to the second High Steward.
I just found out this week from a genealogist interested in the families of that period that Eschyna married as her third husband Henry de Molle (a cousin or someone who took her name because she was an heiress), and their daughter Avicia married Richard Scott. The Scott/Douglass line produced many years later Princess Alice who married in the 20th century Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucestor, and Alice and Henry had a son William whom we all are familiar with as an interesting personality. Thus Eschyna was a foremother to more than three notable families.

I am not so interested in demonstrating a direct line as learning of the history of these families in the high Middle Ages, and their interaction, which is fascinating, with pictures on the web which show their life, such as the rolling hills of de Molle by the River Tweed, and the stone Crookston castle of the 14th century which reproduced Sir Robert Croce's wooden castle of the 12th century, which was owned in the 14th century by the Darnley family, which produced Mary Stuart's husband.
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  #222  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:29 PM
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Archduke Joseph Francis of Austria was my great grandfather look at the photos!

my father otakar was bastard son of Archduke Joseph Francis of Austria he was born in prague may 2 1941. i also was born in prague nov.10,1963 i have a picture of him and i have pictures of me and them you be the judge pictures don't lie. i also have my DNA results they just need to be matched. i am in the last 2 photos in the white hat and in my mothers arms.
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  #223  
Old 08-07-2014, 11:38 PM
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So, I think I have it straight. Queen Victorias grandson kaiser Wilhelm was my great grandmothers cousin.


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  #224  
Old 08-08-2014, 12:23 AM
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That would mean that you're descended from either Queen Victoria or Wilhelm I.

Of Victoria's 9 children 8 had children themselves, one being Wilhelm II's mother. If you were descended from Victoria through her eldest son, Edward VII, you would probably know.

If you're descended from Wilhelm I it would be through his daughter, Louise, who married Frederick I, Grand Duke of Baden. If you descend in this line then you're a descendant of George I of Great Britain. But even then... I think you would probably know, as Louise and Frederick had grandchildren from just one of their children, Victoria, who married Gustaf V of Sweden.
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  #225  
Old 08-08-2014, 12:48 PM
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My grandmother has always talked about how were related to the queen it's just she has done much more research than I have and she just knows much more. I really need to sit down and talk to her some more.

Is there anything I can do to verify it legally? Or to prove my ancestry to the British government?
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  #226  
Old 08-08-2014, 04:31 PM
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What exactly are you verifying? That you're (for example) a 16th cousin twice removed? There are thousands of living descendants of King George I (died 1727) and tens of thousands of living descendants if you trace the royal descent back a few centuries earlier. All can be said to be "related to the Queen" in one way or another, including several US Presidents and numerous Senators. The British government would have no interest in such a distant relationship and "verifyng it legally" wouldn't serve much purpose.

However, researching, exploring and understanding one's family's genealogical record with as many gaps as possible filled in is for many a very satisfying pasttime with possibly unexpected and surprising discoveries to be made. In other words such genealogical research is usually done for individual pleasure, curiosity and satisaction, and not for profit or recognition by State authorities.
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  #227  
Old 08-08-2014, 05:43 PM
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It's really not for profit. Mainly because if I am related to the queen I would want her to know to know me. And me her. It's more for the relationship. I don't care about money. I want to meet her. I'm sure it's a perfectly appropriate feeling to have. And I don't see anything wrong with wanting to meet her and for her to know I'm her family. Even if it is distant family.

I'm really not trying to seem rude. I'm just trying to validate myself. I don't want to come off as if I'm in it for money or anything related to that. I just would really to meet the queen. And finding out if I'm related to her would help make it easier.
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  #228  
Old 08-08-2014, 06:59 PM
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If everyone who is a distant relative of the Queen was to meet her and get to know her she would have no time at all for anything else. She has literally millions of distant relatives who can prove that relationship e.g. David Cameron who would never have come into her orbit if he hadn't chosen politics as a career.

For starters there are 1000s of descendants of Queen Victoria and then back to George II there are more and more - and they are just the legitimate descendants. Cameron is a descendant of William IV, through and illegitimate line of course but that still makes him a relative.

She simply wouldn't have the time to meet all her relatives going back about 200 years because so many people are able to prove that descent.

It is great to be able to say - 'I am related to royalty' but that is all that it would be and you can have the dream of meeting her but in reality it won't be happening. She doesn't have the time and the relationship is way too distant.

Given the relationship to Wilhelm II it sounds like it could be through an illegimate line and not all of those are acknowledged even by the father concerned - often a family 'story' with no real proof (now I am not saying that is the case for you but it is the case for a lot of the claims).

Kaiser Wilhelm's first cousins are easy to locate:

Prince Albert Victor - no legitimate offspring - illegitmate ?? - probably none
George V - 6 offspring whose descendants are well known
Louise - descendants are also well known
Victoria - no descendants
Maud - the Norwegian royal family

Victoria - Marchioness of Milford Haven - we know her descendants - include Prince Philip
Elizabeth - grandduchess of Russia - no children
Irene - 3 children and a number of identified and named grandchildren
Ernst Louis - only legitimate descendants died in 1937 (son married Prince Philip's sister Cecile)
Frederich - died aged 3
Alix - died with her entire family 18th July, 1918 - Ekaterinburg Russia
Marie - died aged 4

Alfred - no legitimate descendants
Marie - Queen of Romania - descendants are known and identified
Victoria - married twice - 3 daughters and a son whose only legitimate child is a girl
Alexandra - 5 children with 2 sons (1 died after 2 days) and he married another of Prince Philip's sisters so their children are first cousins of Charles etc and known to the BRF
Beatrice - who married into the Spanish royal family and had three sons

Christian Victor - didn't marry
Albert - didn't marry but did have an illegitmate child who was acknowledged but who after two marriages died without issue
Helena Victoria - never married
Marie Louise - no children from her unhappy marriage
2 other sons who died at 2 days and stillborn

Margaret - descendants are the Swedish and Danish royal families
Arthur - had one son who died without issue
Patricia - had one son and we know his children

Alice - 3 children, 1 who died in infancy - the others well known to The Queen as Alice was still alive into the 1980s and a member of the BRF - daughter was a bridesmaid to The Queen Mum
Charles Edward - had a number of children who also had identified children,

Alexander - one child - Iris Mountbatten - and again well known to the BRF
Victoria Eugenie - Queen of Spain
Leopold - no legitimate issue
Maurice - no legitimate issue (died during WWI)

Frederick - no legitimate children as none of his issue survived
Victoria - descendants are the Swedish royal family
Ludwig - no issue

So we know all of the Kaiser's first cousins and their legitimate descendants so if you are a descendant of one of his first cousins you would be from one of these listed above and would be moving in many of the same circles as the Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Spanish, British and Germany royal families/houses.

Of course in the late Victorian age a number of the princes probably had illegitmate children who may or may not ever have been acknowledged.
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  #229  
Old 08-08-2014, 07:42 PM
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Thank you so much for your time! Really.
You have been so helpful for everything.
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  #230  
Old 01-22-2015, 01:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Chico, United States
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Yes, I am

Hello, I have been able to trace my lineage back to my 13 great grandmother, Elizabeth Plantagenet, and farther. While it may not mean a lot at this point, it is nice to know, and to be able to share that knowledge.
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  #231  
Old 03-01-2015, 06:27 PM
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Location: Corpus Christi, United States
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Okay, lets give this a whack and see how it ends up.

My Male Line crest shows royalty and a crown -
400 years ago - Verdun married in. (Habsburgs)
1 gen after Suybrandt married in (Webber)
200 years ago the Spaffords married in. b. GG Grandfather (Clare)
1 gen after Gilchrist married in b. G Grandfather
75 years ago the Brundages married in b. Father (Verdun/Ogilvy(Bruce)/Drake)


Plus you can add in verified McAlister from my mothers side.

I hear "royal dna" referenced earlier in this thread. I am e-v13. Does that point to anything?

Any information would be useful, as I would love to verify that this is indeed quite a collection of names in my male line.

Thanks

WWBBIII
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  #232  
Old 03-01-2015, 06:36 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Danville, United States
Posts: 18
Verdun

I descend from Godfrey I Count of Verdun, and his wife Matilda Billung. Is this your line? This is 25 generations worth of this line, from my genealogy files. Duplicate lines of descent removed.

Descendants of Godfrey I Count of Verdun

1 Godfrey I Count of Verdun
.... +Matilda Billung
2 Gothelo I Duke of Lorraine
3 Oda of Verdun
.... +Lambert II Count of Louvain
4 Henry II Count of Louvain
..... +Adèle of Orthen
5 Godfrey I Count of Louvain
..... +Ida of Chiny
6 Godfrey II Count of Louvain
..... +Luitgarde of Sulzbach
7 Godfrey III Count of Louvain
...... +Margaret of Limburg
8 [4] Henry I Duke of Brabant
...... +[3] Matilda of Flanders
9 Henry II Duke of Brabant
...... +Marie of Swabia
. 10 Matilda of Brabant
....... +Robert I of Artois
. 11 Blanche of Artois
....... +Henry I of Navarre
. 12 Joan I Princess of Navarre
....... +Philip IV King of France
.. 13 Isabella Princess of France
........ +Edward II King of England
.. 14 Edward III King of England
........ +Philippa of Hainault
.. 15 John Of Gaunt Prince of England
........ +Katherine De Roet
... 16 [2] Henry Beaufort
......... +[1] Alice FitzAlan
... 17 Joan Beaufort
......... +Edward Stradling
... 18 Henry Harry Stradling
......... +Elizabeth Verch William Herbert
.... 19 Thomas Stradling
.......... +Janet Mathew
.... 20 Edward Stradling
.......... +Elizabeth Arundell
.... 21 Catherine Stradling
.......... +Thomas Palmer
..... 22 William Palmer
........... +Elizabeth Verney
..... 23 Catherine Palmer
........... +Thomas Hinton
..... 24 Mary Frances Hinton
........... +Samuel Mathews
...... 25 Cicely Mathews
............ +Peter Montague
. *2nd Husband of Blanche of Artois:
....... +Edmund 2nd Earl Lancaster
. 12 Henry 3rd Earl Lancaster
....... +Maud Chaworth
.. 13 Eleanor of Lancaster
........ +Richard FitzAlan
.. 14 Richard FitzAlan
........ +Elizabeth de Bohun
.. 15 [1] Alice FitzAlan
........ +[2] Henry Beaufort
3 Godfrey III Duke of Lower Lorraine
.... +Doda Duchess of Lower Lorraine
4 Ida of Lorraine
..... +Eustace II of Boulogne
5 Eustace III Count of Boulogne
..... +Mary Princess of Scotland
6 Matilda of Boulogne
..... +Stephen of Blois King of England
7 Marie of Blois
...... +Matthew of Alsace
8 [3] Matilda of Flanders
...... +[4] Henry I Duke of Brabant




Quote:
Originally Posted by WarHiker View Post
Okay, lets give this a whack and see how it ends up.

My Male Line crest shows royalty and a crown -
400 years ago - Verdun married in. (Habsburgs)
1 gen after Suybrandt married in (Webber)
200 years ago the Spaffords married in. b. GG Grandfather (Clare)
1 gen after Gilchrist married in b. G Grandfather
75 years ago the Brundages married in b. Father (Verdun/Ogilvy(Bruce)/Drake)


Plus you can add in verified McAlister from my mothers side.

I hear "royal dna" referenced earlier in this thread. I am e-v13. Does that point to anything?

Any information would be useful, as I would love to verify that this is indeed quite a collection of names in my male line.

Thanks

WWBBIII
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  #233  
Old 03-01-2015, 06:54 PM
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Location: Corpus Christi, United States
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TLJ, thanks for replying so quickly. If I am a descendant of your line of Verdun - I am not sure. My line of Verdon comes from Magdalena Jacobs Verdon b 1624. Her lines go right to the Badie/Badye family. This is basically the family of the HRE. While I can't draw any direct connections with what you have listed (no dates), I do have Catherine of Lorraine born 1402 up the line from the Badies. Since you have Godfrey and Ida of Lorraine.

TLJ, I would be curious where you connect with the Verdun line, not just how far that you can track it back. Again, thanks for the reply. It seems we may be cousins!
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  #234  
Old 03-01-2015, 07:01 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Danville, United States
Posts: 18
Verdun

Generation 34 (Anna Whitman Benton and Lawrence Wesley Lowe) are my Great-Grandparents

Descendants of Godfrey I Count of Verdun

1 Godfrey I Count of Verdun
.... +Matilda Billung
2 Gothelo I Duke of Lorraine
3 Oda of Verdun
.... +Lambert II Count of Louvain
4 Henry II Count of Louvain
..... +Adèle of Orthen
5 Godfrey I Count of Louvain
..... +Ida of Chiny
6 Godfrey II Count of Louvain
..... +Luitgarde of Sulzbach
7 Godfrey III Count of Louvain
...... +Margaret of Limburg
8 [4] Henry I Duke of Brabant
...... +[3] Matilda of Flanders
9 Henry II Duke of Brabant
...... +Marie of Swabia
. 10 Matilda of Brabant
....... +Robert I of Artois
. 11 Blanche of Artois
....... +Henry I of Navarre
. 12 Joan I Princess of Navarre
....... +Philip IV King of France
.. 13 Isabella Princess of France
........ +Edward II King of England
.. 14 Edward III King of England
........ +Philippa of Hainault
.. 15 John Of Gaunt Prince of England
........ +Katherine De Roet
... 16 [2] Henry Beaufort
......... +[1] Alice FitzAlan
... 17 Joan Beaufort
......... +Edward Stradling
... 18 Henry Harry Stradling
......... +Elizabeth Verch William Herbert
.... 19 Thomas Stradling
.......... +Janet Mathew
.... 20 Edward Stradling
.......... +Elizabeth Arundell
.... 21 Catherine Stradling
.......... +Thomas Palmer
..... 22 William Palmer
........... +Elizabeth Verney
..... 23 Catherine Palmer
........... +Thomas Hinton
..... 24 Mary Frances Hinton
........... +Samuel Mathews
...... 25 Cicely Mathews
............ +Peter Montague
...... 26 Peter Montague
............ +Elizabeth Morris
...... 27 William Montague
............ +Lettice Weeks
....... 28 Abraham Montague
............. +Charlotte Latane
....... 29 Lattaney Montague
............. +Catherine Young
....... 30 Charlotte Montague
............. +William Owen
........ 31 Martha Latney Owen
.............. +Allen Howard
........ 32 Mark Howard
.............. +Nancy Ellen Maddox
........ 33 Sallie Henry Howard
.............. +James William Benton
......... 34 Anna Whitman Benton
............... +Lawrence Wesley Lowe
. *2nd Husband of Blanche of Artois:
....... +Edmund 2nd Earl Lancaster
. 12 Henry 3rd Earl Lancaster
....... +Maud Chaworth
.. 13 Eleanor of Lancaster
........ +Richard FitzAlan
.. 14 Richard FitzAlan
........ +Elizabeth de Bohun
.. 15 [1] Alice FitzAlan
........ +[2] Henry Beaufort
3 Godfrey III Duke of Lower Lorraine
.... +Doda Duchess of Lower Lorraine
4 Ida of Lorraine
..... +Eustace II of Boulogne
5 Eustace III Count of Boulogne
..... +Mary Princess of Scotland
6 Matilda of Boulogne
..... +Stephen of Blois King of England
7 Marie of Blois
...... +Matthew of Alsace
8 [3] Matilda of Flanders
...... +[4] Henry I Duke of Brabant
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  #235  
Old 03-01-2015, 07:21 PM
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Hey TJL thanks for that. While your line definitely stays with male lineage longer, it is much more complex than mine. There are only a few daughter name changes in mine.


Godfrey 1 Verdun
Gothelo
Godfrey III
.Ida de Lorraine
.Werner Habsburg
.hab
.hab
.hab
.hab
.hab
.hab
.hab
.hab
. Ernst 1 von Habsburg
..Katharine Von Habsburg
..Christof von Baden
..Thomas Badye
..Thomas Badye
...Verdon
...Verdon 1624
....My Male Line current

This means that my line only had 4 name changes. From Loraine to Habsburg to Baden to Verdon to my Male Line Name. I would love to research more into the Verdon connection. It would be novel if the Verdon name was a relic of Verdun and so my claim would be even stronger.
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  #236  
Old 03-01-2015, 07:31 PM
Commoner
 
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Location: Danville, United States
Posts: 18
Family Tree

If you think that's wild, try this on for size. I descend from 5 of the children of Yaroslav of Kiev. <G>

1 Yaroslav I "The Wise" Grand Prince Kiev
.. +Ingegerd Olofsdotter of Sweden
2 Anastasia Princess of Kiev
.. +Andrew I King Hungary
2 Iziaslav Yaroslavovich Grand Prince Kiev
.. +Gertrude of Poland
2 Agatha Princess of Kiev
.. +Edward "the Exile" Prince of England
2 Vsevolod I Grand Prince of Kiev
.. +Anastasia of Byzantium
2 Agnesa Yaroslavna (Anna) Princess Kiev
.. +Henry I King Franks

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  #237  
Old 03-01-2015, 07:35 PM
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Location: Corpus Christi, United States
Posts: 22
how can you be descendant of all 5 children?
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  #238  
Old 03-01-2015, 07:43 PM
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Location: Corpus Christi, United States
Posts: 22
Sort of ridiculous to claim descent from 5 children.
I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.
With noble families you can often trace back very far.

Example: with my Spofford link, I can draw lineage to Dygvi Domarson of Sweden from the 4th century. This is the same link that 5 to 10 million descendants who live in the US can make. What matters (in my opinion) is how long ago your line split from royalty and how many times it has changed.

Example: On your Verdun lineage I count at least 14 changes to your great grandparents - so there could be another few changes after that also. I'm not trying to reign on your parade, just trying to show how there is a different way of thinking about lineage than (I'm descendant from Godfrey 1).

I wish you luck in your journey and your research.
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  #239  
Old 03-01-2015, 07:45 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Danville, United States
Posts: 18
Family Tree

Their descendents intermarried down the line. I'm not trying to "prove" anything. I've been working on my tree for over 30 years. My last royal ancestor, Joan Beaufort who married Edward Stradling, was about 20 generations ago.


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  #240  
Old 03-01-2015, 08:09 PM
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Location: Corpus Christi, United States
Posts: 22
Royal intermarrying is very common. It's a bit scary to see, but its understandable why it happens. Heck, they didn't know about mutations like they do nowadays.
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