British Royal Family Genealogy

[Michiru-Kaiou]

I saw your link. The name that kept coming up was Alfred Hamilton (1862-). I didn't see any mention of the 16th Duke at all...

The bottom XX is the 16th Duke. If you go to, say Alfred Douglas-Hamilton (13th Duke), you see his titles under his name on the top of the page, there you can click on any given title and get a list of Dukes of Hamilton, the list in the database ends with Duke Alfred, but the others are listed, too, with xx, which you can click and do the relationship computing. By the way, to get the display I linked tick the "long display" box on the "Link between [] and ..." page.

best wishes Michiru

 

[Mariel]

thanks Ish and everyone who has this profound knowledge of relationships. Very impressed. I come here to learn history.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

The bottom XX is the 16th Duke.

Oh okay. When I clicked on one of the "XX" choices, all it gave me were a bunch of X's. "Married to XX", etc. and I was so confused and thought the page was misleading.

Is EII related to:

1) Diana Hay, 23rd Countess of Errol
2) George Villiers of Brokesby

If so, please give lines of descent. Or the family tree relations.

 

[Ish]

Ish, as you have the list of descendants of Prince John William Friso, do you know if Prince Luiz, the Head of the Imperial House of Brazil, descends from him? Thank you.

It's occurred to me that I didn't trace the actual lines for you.

1. Johan Willem Friso
2. William IV, Prince of Orange
3. Princess Caroline of Orange Nassau
4. Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg
5. Princess Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg
6. Archduchess Maria Theresa of Austria-Teschen
7. Prince Alfonso, Count of Caserta
8. Princess Maria di Grazia of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, married Prince Luiz of Orléans-Braganza
9. Prince Pedro Henrique of Orléans-Braganza
10. Prince Luiz of Orléans-Braganza

The other line is:

1. Johan Willem Friso
2. William IV, Prince of Orange
3. Princess Caroline of Orange Nassau
4. Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg
5. Princess Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg
6. Duchess Maria Dorothea of Württemberg
7. Archduchess Elizabeth Franziska of Austria
8. Prince Franz of Bavaria
9. Princess Maria Elisabeth of Bavaria, married Prince Pedro Henrique of Orléans-Braganza
10. Prince Luiz of Orléans-Braganza

Heads of Houses that appear closely in these lines are:

Infante Carlos, Duke of Calabria, Prince Pedro Carlos of Orléans-Braganza, Archduke Sigismund, Grand Duke of Tuscany, Prince Jean-Christophe Napoléon, Prince Carlo, Duke of Castro. The wives of Charles, Prince Napoléon and Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia also appear here.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

It's occurred to me that I didn't trace the actual lines for you.

Thank you, Ish, that was very nice.

And the Count of Paris and the Duke of Braganza, are they descendants of Prince Johan Friso?

 

[Ish]

...Prince William and the 16th Duke of Hamilton are related, through the Earls of Northumberland.

William's descended from the Northumberlands in a number of lines. Specifically, he's descended from 3 of the 2nd Earl of Northumberland's children. My chart on this one is in a bit of an awkward stage right now, so I'm only going to trace one of those lines.

1. Henry Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland
2. Anne Percy
3. Mary Hungerford, 5th Baroness Botreaux
4. George Hastings, 1st Earl of Huntingdon
5. Francis Hastings, 2nd Earl of Huntingdon
6. George Hastings, 4th Earl of Huntingdon
7. Francis Hastings, Lord Hastings
8. Catherine Hastings
9. Sir Henry Stanhope, Lord Stanhop
10. Philip Stanhope, 2nd Earl of Chesterfield
11. Elizabeth Stanhope
12. Thomas Lyon, 8th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
13. John Bowes, 9th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
14. Thomas Lyon-Bowes, 11th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
15. Thomas George Lyon-Bowes, Lord Glamis
16. Claude Bowes-Lyon, 13th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
17. Claude Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
18. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
19. Elizabeth II
20. Charles, Prince of Wales
21. Prince William, Duke of Cambridge

Is EII related to George Villiers of Brokesby.

HM is descended from three of George Villier's children, Edward, Elizabeth, and Susan.
The line from Edward is as follows:

1. Sir Edward Villiers
2. Sir Edward Villiers
3. Anne Villiers
4. Capt.-Gen. Henry Bentinck, 1st Duke of Portland
5. William Bentinck, 2nd Duke of Portland
6. William Cavendish-Bentinck, 3rd Duke of Portland
7. Lt.-Col. Charles Cavendish-Bentinck
8. Reverend Charles Cavendish-Bentinck
9. Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck
10. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
11. Elizabeth II

George's wikipedia page lists the 16 PM's who are descended from him. George Villiers (died 1606) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ish]

Thank you, Ish, that was very nice. And the Count of Paris and the Duke of Braganza, are they descendants of Prince Johan Friso?

I can't find the Duke of Braganza in the chart, and the Count of Paris isn't a descendant, but his wife is.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Hi Ish,

Thanks for the lines and clearing it up.
What about if HM is related to Diana Hay?

 

[Marc23]

Well,she is...Diana Hay is a descendant of King William IV through his illegitimate daughter Elizabeth,who was the Countess of Erroll,while the Queen is descendant of King William's brother Edward...

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

I know of the Queen's descent. But thanks for the info.
Is HM also related to:

1) Infanta Alicia, Duchess of Calabria
2) Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou, and
3) Duchess Marie Therese of Wurttemberg?

 

[Ish]

What about if HM is related to Diana Hay?

Diana Hay's line is this:

1. George III
2. William IV
3. Elizabeth FitzClarence
4. Major William Hay, 19th Earl of Erroll
5. Lt.-Col. Charles Gore Hay, 20th Earl of Erroll
6. Victor Alexander Sereld Hay, 21st Earl of Erroll
7. Josslyn Victor Hay, 22nd Earl of Erroll
8. Diana Denyse Hay, 23rd Countess of Errol

9. Is HM also related to:1
   [*]) Infanta Alicia, Duchess of Calabria
   [*]2) Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou, and
   [*]3) Duchess Marie Therese of Wurttemberg?

   Infante Alicia, Duchess of Calabria, born Princess Alicia of Bourbon-Parma:

1. Johan Willem Friso
2. William IV, Prince of Orange
3. Princess Caroline of Orange-Nassau
4. Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg
5. Princess Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg
6. Archduchess Marie Theresa of Austria-Teschen
7. Princess Maria Pia of the Two Sicilies
8. Elias, Duke of Parma
9. Princess Alicia of Bourbon-Parma

Her husband Infante Alfonso's line is:

1. Johan Willem Friso
2. William IV, Prince of Orange
3. Princess Caroline of Orange-Nassau
4. Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg
5. Princess Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg
6. Archduchess Marie Theresa of Austria-Teschen
7. Prince Alfonso, Count of Caserta
8. Prince Carlos of Bourbon-Two Sicilies
9. Infante Alfonso, Duke of Calabria

Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou:

1. Johan Willem Friso
2. Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Baden
3. Charles Louis, Hereditary Prince of Baden
4. Princess Wilhelmine of Baden
5. Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine
6. Colonel Prince Henry of Battenberg
7. Princess Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg
8. Infante Jamie, Duke of Segovia
9. Alfonso, Duke of Anjou and Cádiz
10. Louis Alphonso, Duke of Anjou

Duchess Marie Thérèse of Württemberg, Duchess of Montpensier

1. Johan Willem Friso
2. Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Baden
3. Charles Louis, Hereditary Prince of Baden
4. Princess Caroline of Baden
5. Princess Sophie of Bavaria
6. Archduke Karl Ludwig of Austria
7. Archduchess Margarete Sophie of Austria
8. Philipp Albrecht, Duke of Württemberg
9. Duchess Marie Thérèse of Württemberg, Duchess of Montpensier

Philipp Albrecht also had a sister named Marie Therese.
.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

A quick question... Since we're on the topic of Diana... Are the Spencer's and the Windsors related?
So HM is related to Infanta Alicia through John William Friso?

 

[Ish]

The Spencers and the Windsors have many shared relations. I believe (off the top of my head) the closest one is their mutual descent from James I; the Windsors descend from James' daughter, Elizabeth, while the Spencers descend from James' son, Charles.

Diana also had a lot of family connections with the Queen Mother as well. Really prior to the Hanovers, the BRF married a lot of aristocrats, and Diana's family has a long aristocratic ancestry.

Yes. I traced HM's descent from Johan earlier in this thread.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Thanks for that. I have a long book by Iain Moncreiffe about the Spencer & Windsor ancestry of Prince William.
I read in "Ancestry of the Royal Child" that Prince William has Persian and Albanian ancestry.

Is William related to:
--Hermann, Prince of Wied
--Any Asian royal families?
Besides the Queen Mother's Islamic ancestry.
And are the Albanian royal family related to the Albanian royals that William's related to?
If he's related to them, I want to see the lines of descent.

 

[Warren]

That would be "Royal Highness - Ancestry of the Royal Child" by Sir Iain Moncreiffe of that Ilk, Bt.
Published 1982.
Wherein the descent of the first child of Charles and Diana is detailed from every source imaginable, from Babylonia to Windsor.

 

[cepe]

why dont you do the research? The sources should be in the book

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Yes you're correct. I just didn't feel like putting the extremely long title! *Giggles*
There should be a book about Prince George's Windsor-Spencer-Middleton ancestry. I wonder when that will turn up...

His sources aren't in there.
A serious question to you though.... Does it matter that it was published 30 years ago? I ask because what if some of his sources are outdated?
And some things could shut down or close...

 

[cepe]

Fair points. Interesting that the sources aren't there. That matters to me more than the age of the book. The best person to ask is Ish on the other thread, I think.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

True. He never listed his sources but he did list both lines of descent and two-three pages of explanations on who each of William's ancestors are in each nationality.

Something's weird. I write something and when I click "Submit", my post gets put in the thread I was in prior to opening the new one I want to post to...

 

[Warren]

There is nothing "weird" going on. You keep creating new threads although they all relate to British Royal Family genealogy. Therefore they have been merged into the one existing thread.

His sources aren't in there.

What do you mean "His sources aren't in there."?
Sir Iain Moncreeiffe of that Ilk, Albany Herald at Arms, was a heraldist and genealogical historian. He was President of the Association of Genealogists and Record Agents, Vice President of the Scottish Genealogy Society, Fellow of the Society of Genealogists, a Member of the Court of the Lord Lyon King of Arms etc etc and a former Chairman of Debretts.

His book "Royal Highness - Ancestry of the Royal Child" contains about 80 separate and detailed genealogical lines of descent in over 100 pages. There would be thousands of names listed. Did you expect to find that the original sources for each and every name, date, relationship, anecdote and historical fact that appears in the book be provided?

Genealogical lines of descent of this quality are rare and don't become "out of date" after 30 years. You either accept them or you do your own research and try to come up with something better.

 

[Ish]

Something's weird. I write something and when I click "Submit", my post gets put in the thread I was in prior to opening the new one I want to post to...

What's happened is the other threads have been moved by the mods into this one.

Pertaining to William's ancestry; I don't know if he's related to any of the Asian monarchies although if he is it's a very distant one. Most Asian monarchies had at least a degree of isolation and wouldn't have married a Westerner.

With the Albanian family, I don't know the line of descent but given as William has a lengthy ancestry in Eastern European monarchies it's very likely that somewhere they have a common ancestor.

As to the lack of sources in Ian Moncreiffe's book, depending on the audience it was intended for it's not necessarily all that uncommon. If it was meant for a more academic audience then it would - or should - be heavily on the sources, but if it's meant for a more general audience it's likely to be light on the sources listed.

The book being 30 years old isn't a problem at all. While some fields change a lot in a short period of time, history and genealogy doesn't - sometimes our understanding of events changes, and the way in which we interpret events changes, but the history typically stands. One thing that should be questioned - especially if there's a lack of sourcing - is what is the bias, and what claims are being made that can be debated.

A good portion of the genealogy here isn't debatable; you can clearly trace the lines of royal and noble families through history. The problem I that you often hit a point where the genealogy isn't necessarily clear. Prior to the modern era, history wasn't always clearly recorded and things that were mythical were recorded as fact - remember, Henry VII once traced his ancestry to King Arthur. When looking at the connections made it's important to try to determine when and by whom they were made - and what the purpose behind making them was.

My recommendation is to check out multiple sources, and even Wikipedia, before taking something as fact. We know that Henry wasn't likely descended from Arthur, any more than he was also descended from Woden (also claimed at one point).

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

There is nothing "weird" going on...

A few responses.

1) That makes sense. Didn't know that at the time that they were merged.
2) I just was making a point. Good point, they probably don't.
And for most of the lines I looked up, I couldn't look up better research.

I also do have a question for you.

 

[Marc23]

Is William related to:
--Hermann, Prince of Wied?

One of many lines is:

Count Alexander zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1661-1728)
I
Count Albrecht zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1698-1752)
I
Countess Friederike zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1738-1786)
I
Duke Friedrich von Hosltein-Sonderburg-Beck (1757-1816)
I
Duke Wilhelm von Schleswig-Hosltein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (1785-1851)
I
King Christian IX of Denamrk (1818-1906)
I
Princess Alexandra of Denmark (1844-1925)
I
King George V of Great Britain (1865-1936)
I
King George VI of Great Britain (1895-1952)
I
Queen Elizabeth II of Great Briatin (1926-)
I
Prince Charles, Prince of Wales (194
I
Prince William, Duke of Cambridge (1982-)

and

Count Alexander zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1661-1728)
I
Count Albrecht zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1698-1752)
I
Countess Louise Charlotte zu Dohna-Schlodien (1688-1736)
I
Prince Johann Friedrich zu Wied (1706-1791)
I
Prince Friedrich Carl zu Wied (1741-1802)
I
Prince Johann August zu Wied-Neuwied (1775-1836)
I
Prince Hermann zu Wied (1814-1864)

--Any Asian royal families?
Besides the Queen Mother's Islamic ancestry.

The Queen visited China in 1986 and as a present she got her ancestry line from the Chinese Emperors(through Mary of Teck),so I guess there are some chances that she is very distantly related to some of them...

And are the Albanian royal family related to the Albanian royals that William's related to?
If he's related to them, I want to see the lines of descent.

I didn't understand the question,but Albanian royal family is related to Prince William.Here is the line of Albanian royal family from Prince Johann Georg II von Anhalt-Dessau (1627-1693) and the line to Prince William:

Prince Johann Georg II von Anhalt-Dessau (1627-1693)
I
Prince Leopold I von Anhalt-Dessau (1676-1747)
I
Prince Leopold I von Anhalt-Dessau (1700-1751)
I
Princess Agnes von Anhalt-Dessau (1744-1799)
I
Baroness Agnes von Loen (1783-1832)
I
Count Hermann von Seherr-Thoss (1810-1893)
I
Countess Marguerite von Seherr-Thoss (1848-1931)
I
Count Gyula Apponyi de Nagy-Apponyi (1873-1924)
I
Countess Geraldine Apponyi de Nagy-Apponyi (1915-2002)
I
King Leka I of Albania (1939-2011)

and

Prince Johann Georg II von Anhalt-Dessau (1627-1693)
I
Princess Henriette Amalia von Anhalt-Dessau (1666-1726)
I
Prince Johan Willem Friso of Orange-Nassau (1689-1711)
I
Prince Willem IV of Orange-Nassau (1711-1751)
I
Princess Carolina of Orange-Nassau (1743-1787)
I
Pincess Henriette von Nassau-Weilburg (1780-1857)
I
Duke Alexander von Württemberg (1804-1885)
I
Duke Franz von Teck (1844-1900)
I
Princess Mary von Teck (1867-1953)
I
King George VI of Great Britain (1895-1952)
I
Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain (1926-)
I
Prince Charles, Prince of Wales (194
I
Prince William, Duke of Cambridge (1982-)
.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Hi Ish,
About Infanta Alicia & Marie Therese's lines, you gave me their lines from Friso. What would QEII's line be from JWFriso?

 

[Warren]

It's already there, if you look.
Elizabeth II's line of descent from Prince Johan Willem Friso appears in Marc23's post directly above yours.
You can also find it in Ish's post #324 and Marengo's post #318.
It doesn't need to be repeated a fourth time.

 

[Ish]

I also posted it, along with the descent of the other currently reigning monarchs.

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Is HM the Queen related to:

1) The current Earl of Kellie
2) Margaret of Mar, 31st Countess of Mar

 

[Marc23]

Is HM the Queen related to:

1) The current Earl of Kellie

They are related...if not closer through British nobility(which is not very likely to believe that they aren't),they have both descended from Prince William "the Silent" of Nassau-Orange and his wife Juliane zu Stolberg-Wernigerode...

2) Margaret of Mar, 31st Countess of Mar

Yes,distantly...One of the mutual lines is from Sir William Cavendish of Chatsworth...

 

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Quick question: Was Queen Victoria related to Christian IX? And is QEII related to him as well?

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

And is QEII related to him as well?

Yes. Her Majesty is a great-great-granddaughter o King Christian IX of Denmark.

Christian IX --- Queen Alexandra --- George V --- George VI --- Elizabeth II.