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  #141  
Old 10-19-2012, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sangre_Real016 View Post
This succession bypassed more than fifty people then living who had better claims to the throne according to primogeniture. The following chart will show those people, and only those who are relevant to this issue are included.
The point is that all these people were Catholics. And the Catholic claim lay with the Stuart pretenders. No other Catholic had a better claim than the Stuarts.
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  #142  
Old 10-19-2012, 05:31 AM
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The point is that all these people were Catholics. And the Catholic claim lay with the Stuart pretenders. No other Catholic had a better claim than the Stuarts.
true enough.. but there is no other descendants from morganatic marriage too.. Catholics were debarred from the line of succession.. children of morganatic marriages does not inherit dynastic rights.. the Stuarts are out of the picture.. catholic relatives are also removed from the line of succession.. there is one close protestant relative but with obscure origins since she is a product of an unequal marriage.. so all bets goes to the nearest Protestant relative with unquestionable royal pedigree.. plus the fact that Sophia is a crowned ruler add more in the criteria.. given all the facts, Sophia is the best candidate.. but does that prove Karoline's illegitimacy? the answer is no..
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  #143  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:18 PM
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Questions about Princess Anne's title of Princess Royal have been moved to the British Styles & Titles thread in the British Forums.
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  #144  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sangre_Real016 View Post
and unlike Prince Charles, Lady Diana can boast ancestry to the Kings of France, Grand Dukes of Tuscany, Dukes of Milan and even to the most powerful aristocratic family of the Dukes of Alba, leading all the way to the House of Capet of the Capetian Dynasty..

Prince Charles may have more royal ancestors from the more recent history, but Lady Diana though only came from a much humbler aristocratic background, can boast ancestry from also every single Royal House in Europe since time immemorial.. ..
This is all well said, but I don't believe that Charles does not have similar ancestry and having such Royal ancestry does not make you a Royal.

The closest link in my family tree to the nobility are two noble great-great-grandmothers, who due to the French revolution and two lost World Wars first married into the wealthy bourgeoise out of France who lconsequently ost their money bit by bit till we are now well-educated but very normal people. While the Heads of these families today still own their chateaux and estate. Lucky cousins!

Their families had thrived on good marriages, while the basic familes were not that noble (Barons and Counts), they served their kings and overlords (like the Guise-family) and were rewarded with heiresses of exceptionally good bloodlines. Thus I can trace my line through several daughters and sons of Charlesmagne, William the Conqueror, Alfred the Great of Wessex, the first Habsburg and Hohenzollern Counts, the Zaehringen, the great dukes of Saxony, to the Billungs of the North, numerous German emperors from Otto The Great, Frederick Barbarossa or the Luxembourg emperors Bohemian lines... Lorraine, Bar, Hainault, Champagne, Bourgogne, Bretagne, Acquitaine, Savoy of Piedmont, Tuscany - name it, a connection is there.
And I just started to look for it. So I don't wonder that Lady Diana Spencer probably had a much better access to these close-knit Royals up to the 16th century.

One thing I learned from my research was: it is just a matter of luck or fate who you are descended from, nothing to feel special about. It's what you make out of your life that counts. And Charles did a great job in creating him into today's "Prince of Wales". And anyone else has a chance to so in his own circumstances. A nice touch, though that you can get help from the Prince of Wales when living in the Uk. This is much more than what you get from the most noble Lord the Earl Spencer who shares Diana's noble ancestry but not Charles' nobility of spirit. IMHO, of course.
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  #145  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:53 AM
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True, Diana's blood was bluest.
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  #146  
Old 01-26-2013, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
.

Now please explain to me how Lady Diana Spencer could have had more Royal blood than her husband?
I have read the numerous posts on Diana's ancestry and havent quite figured that one out myself. It all sounds like a rather liberal interpretation of "royal" in order to somehow boost Diana up and demeen her former husband which seems rather pointless since her former husband is a future King with a rather long traceable history throughout the royal families of Europe. The fact remains that the Windsors are the royal family and the Spencers are your basic garden variety English noble family.
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  #147  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:03 PM
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I don't see the reason why anyone will try to put Charles's ancestry down. Both Charles & Diana came from blue blooded families.
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  #148  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I don't see the reason why anyone will try to put Charles's ancestry down. Both Charles & Diana came from blue blooded families.
Charles came from royal family, Diana came from noble family.
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  #149  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
Charles came from royal family, Diana came from noble family.
Right, but their families are still blue bloods.
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  #150  
Old 01-26-2013, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
It all sounds like a rather liberal interpretation of "royal" in order to somehow boost Diana up and demeen her former husband which seems rather pointless since her former husband is a future King with a rather long traceable history throughout the royal families of Europe. The fact remains that the Windsors are the royal family and the Spencers are your basic garden variety English noble family.
It sometimes sounds as a consolation for not being born a royal or at least mediatized to be treated as equal...

The truth is that she descends further from various royal and prominent families,but it is also the truth that in 17th,18th and 19th century marriage concept her status of a daughter of an Earl would not be enough for any reigning or most mediatized families...
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  #151  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:45 PM
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Tracing Queen Elizabeth Ancestry Line back to the Tudors

I made a British Royal Family Tree Tracing Queen Elizabeth Ancestry Line back to the Tudors. Please Tell me what you think and if In made any mistakes, error, etc.

1. 14th Great Grandparent King Henry VII 1457-1509 Elizabeth of York 1466-1503

2. 13th Great Grandparents Margaret Tudor 1489-1541 Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of Angus 1489-1557- Margaret Tudor Daughter of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York

3. 12th Great Grandparent Margaret Douglas 1515-1578 Matthew Stewart, 4th Earl of Lennox 1516-1571

4. 11th Great Grandparents Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley 1545-1567 Mary, Queen of Scots 1489-1541- Henry Stuart Son of Margaret Douglas and Matthew Stewart

5. 10th Great Grandparent King James I 1566-1625 Anne of Denmark 1574-1619- James I Son of Henry and Mary of Scots

6. 9th Great Grandparents Elizabeth Stuart 1596-1662 Frederick V, Elector Palatine 1596-1632- Elizabeth Daughter of James I and Anne of Denmark

7. 8th Great Grandparents Sophia of Hanover 1630-1714 Ernest Augustus 1629-1629- Sophia of Hanover Daughter of Frederick V, Elector and Elizabeth

8. 7th Great Grandparents King George I 1660-1727 Sophia Dorothea of Celle 1666-1726-King George I Son of Sophia of Hanover and Ernest Augustus

9. 6th Great Grandparents King George II 1683-1760 Caroline of Ansbach 1683-1737- George II Son of Gorge ! and Sophia

10. 5th Great Grandparents Frederick, Prince of Wales 1707-1751 Princess Augusta 1719-1772- Frederick Son of George II and Caroline

11. 4th Great Grandparents King George III 1738-1820 Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz 1744-1818- George III Son of Frederick and Augusta


12. 3rd Great Grandparents Prince Edward, Duke of Kent 1767-1820 Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld 1786-1861- Prince Edward Son of George III And Charlotte

13. Great Great Grandparents Queen Victoria 1819-1901 Prince Albert 1819-1861- Victoria Daughter of Edward and Princess Victoria

14. Great Grandparents King Edward VII 1841-1910 Alexandra of Denmark 1844-1925- Edward VII Son of Victoria and Albert

15. Grandparents King George V 1865-1936 Queen Mary of Teck 1867-1953
-George V Son of Edward and Alexandra

16. Parents King George VI 1856-1952 Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother 1900-2002
-George VI Son of George and Mary

Queen Elizabeth II Born 1926 Prince Philip Born 1921
Daughter of King George VI and Elizabeth


Next Generations:
Prince Charles Born 1948 Princess Diana 1961-1997 married 1981-1996
Son of Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip

Prince Williams Born 1982, Married Kate Middleton Born 1982. Son of Prince Charles and Princess Diana
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  #152  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:53 PM
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Hey someone tell me..does Queen EII have the bloodline of William The Conqueror? Or from where was it interrupted? Who was the earliest English monarch she could be traced directly to? I know the line wasnt straight..(nephews, cousins, distant relatives etc..)..But still..could her ancestry be traced to William I? Or just to Henry VII?
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  #153  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Hey someone tell me..does Queen EII have the bloodline of William The Conqueror? Or where was it interrupted? Who was the earliest English monarch she could be traced directly to? I know the line wasnt straight..(nephews, cousins, distant relatives etc..)..But still..could her ancestry be traced to William I?
of course
Ancestors of Queen Elizabeth II at RoyaList
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  #154  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Hey someone tell me..does Queen EII have the bloodline of William The Conqueror? Or from where was it interrupted? Who was the earliest English monarch she could be traced directly to? I know the line wasnt straight..(nephews, cousins, distant relatives etc..)..But still..could her ancestry be traced to William I? Or just to Henry VII?
Yes you can trace it back to William the Conqueror. I started with the Tudors as it get kind of Complicated between William the Conqueror and the start of the Tudors. He is Elizabeth 22 Great Grandfather.
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  #155  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
I made a British Royal Family Tree Tracing Queen Elizabeth Ancestry Line back to the Tudors. Please Tell me what you think and if Made any mistakes, error, etc.

14th Great Grandparent King Henry VII 1457-1509 Elizabeth of York 1466-1503

13th Great Grandparents Margaret Tudor 1489-1541 James IV of Scotland 1473-1513- Margret Tudor Daughter of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York

12th Great Grandparent Margaret Douglas 1515-1578 Matthew Stewart, 4th Earl 1516- 1571- Margaret Douglas Daughter of Margaret Tudor and James VI

11th Great Grandparents Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley 1545-1567 Mary, Queen of Scots 1489-1541- Henry Stuart Son of Margaret Douglas and James VI
This isn't entirely right. You've got most of the right people, but the wrong connections.

Margaret Tudor and James IV of Scotland had a son, James V. James V married Mary of Guise and had a daughter, Mary of Scots.

Margaret Tudor then married Archibald Douglas and had a daughter, Margaret Douglas. Margaret Douglas married Matthew Stewart and had a son, Henry Stuart.

Henry Stuart and Mary of Scots married and had a son. James VI, who became James I of England, and from whom Elizabeth II descends.
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  #156  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Hey someone tell me..does Queen EII have the bloodline of William The Conqueror? Or from where was it interrupted? Who was the earliest English monarch she could be traced directly to? I know the line wasnt straight..(nephews, cousins, distant relatives etc..)..But still..could her ancestry be traced to William I? Or just to Henry VII?
The Queen is a direct descendant of William the Conqueror through multiply lines: she is his 22nd great-granddaughter.

Elizabeth II is also a direct descendant of many Anglo-Saxon Kings, Kings of Scotland native Princes of Wales, and (High) Kings of Ireland, including Egbert of Wessex (generally accepted to have been the first King of England), Alfred the Great, Harold Godwinson, Rhys ap Gruffydd, Llywelyn the Great, Brian Boru, and many others.

One of the lines of descent from William the Conqueror:
- William the Conqueror
- Henry I
- Empress Matilda
- Henry II
- King John
- Henry III
- Edward I
- Edward II
- Edward III
- Lionel, 1st Duke of Clarence
- Philippa, 5th Countess of Ulster
- Roger, 4th Earl of March
- Anne de Mortimer
- Richard, 3rd Duke of York
- Edward IV
- Elizabeth of York
- Margaret Tudor
- James V of Scotland
- Mary, Queen of Scots
- James VI and I of Scotland and England
- Elizabeth of Bohemia
- Sophia, Electress of Hanover
- George I of Great Britian
- George II
- Frederick, Prince of Wales
- George III
- Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn
- Queen Victoria
- Edward VII
- George V
- George VI
- Queen Elizabeth II
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  #157  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:06 PM
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She's also descended from the pre-conquest Wessex kings.

- Alfred the Great
- Edward the Elder
- Edmund I
- Edgar the Peaceful
- Æthelred the Unready
- Edmund Ironside
- Edward the Exile
- Saint Margaret of Scotland
- Matilda of Scotland
- Empress Matilda
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  #158  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:08 PM
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Indeed, the Queen can trace her ancestry all the way back to Cedric, King of Wessex - the original Anglo-Saxon conqueror who founded and became the first King of Wessex from 519 to 534. All subsequent English Monarchs were descended from him.

- Cedric, King of Wessex
- Creoda
- Cynric of Wessex
- Ceawlin of Wessex
- Cuthwine of Wessex
- Cutha Cathwulf
- Ceolwald of Wessex
- Coenred of Wessex
- Ingild of Wessex
- Eoppa of Wessex (nephew of King Ine of Wessex)
- Eafa of Wessex
- Ealhmund, King of Kent
- Egbert, King of England
- Aethelwulf
- Alfred the Great
- Edward the Elder
- Edmund I
- King Edgar
- Ethelred II the Unready
- Edmund II Ironside
- Edward the Exile
- Margaret of Scotland
- Edith of Scotland
- Empress Matilda
- Henry II of England- King John
- Henry III
- Edward I
- Edward II
- Edward III
- Lionel, 1st Duke of Clarence
- Philippa, 5th Countess of Ulster
- Roger, 4th Earl of March
- Anne de Mortimer
- Richard, 3rd Duke of York
- Edward IV
- Elizabeth of York
- Margaret Tudor
- James V of Scotland
- Mary, Queen of Scots
- James VI and I of Scotland and England
- Elizabeth of Bohemia
- Sophia, Electress of Hanover
- George I of Great Britian
- George II
- Frederick, Prince of Wales
- George III
- Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn
- Queen Victoria
- Edward VII
- George V
- George VI
- Queen Elizabeth II

A bit off-topic but I just have to mention she is also descended from Armenian Kings (both those of the Kingdom of Armenia and the Cilician Kingdom of Armenia).
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  #159  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:20 PM
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I have a "family tree" that says she can trace her ancestry back to Woden!
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  #160  
Old 04-01-2013, 05:25 PM
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I have a "family tree" that says she can trace her ancestry back to Woden!
Kind of. According to the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle (composed during the reign of Alfred theGreat), Woden was the father of Wecta, Beldeg, wihtgils and Wihtlaeg. Those four were the ancestors of the Kings of Wessex, Northumbria, Mercia and East Anglia - and Queen Elizabeth is a direct descendant of each one of them (and Woden, by default).

There is also the Ecclesiastical History of te English People (completed in early 8th century), which states that the first two commanders of the Anglo-Saxon settlers of Britain were Hengist and Horsa. They were "the sons o Civtgilsus, whose father was Vecta, son of Woden; from whose stock the royal race of many provinces deduce their original".

Quite an illustrious ancestry Elizabeth II has! She is also supposed to be a direct descendant of Prophet Mohammed (although I haven't been able to find a reliable genealogical chart of that), Roman Emperors (that I can easily provide, if necessary; however, it must be remembered that quite a few of the Roman Emperors were adopted and not biological children of their predecessors although they all came from just a handful of most notable Roman families), Genghis Khan (again, a chart can be provided although there are some debatable points), and so on.
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