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  #81  
Old 08-03-2010, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Thena View Post
Oooh!

My inner historian is squealing because this that William and Kate would be returning the Boleyn bloodline to the throne for the first time since Elizabeth I!
Don´t let your inner historian squeal too loudly without seeing actual documentary proof, many a royal ancestor has been invented, the Daily Mail is very good at throwing out little tidbits like this.
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  #82  
Old 08-03-2010, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Don´t let your inner historian squeal too loudly without seeing actual documentary proof, many a royal ancestor has been invented, the Daily Mail is very good at throwing out little tidbits like this.
Fair point!
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  #83  
Old 08-03-2010, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Don´t let your inner historian squeal too loudly without seeing actual documentary proof, many a royal ancestor has been invented, the Daily Mail is very good at throwing out little tidbits like this.
Yeah, I calmed down after about an hour or so. It turns out that Wikipedia lists the Queen Mother as a possible descendant of Mary Boleyn without any sort of citation.

And I should know better to trust the Daily Mail as a source, but it was 3 AM and I was sleep deprived.
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  #84  
Old 08-04-2010, 07:55 AM
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Don´t worry about it Thena. Actually this could mean either good news or bad news for the interested people.
For those who would like to see Kate Middleton ascend the consort´s throne of Great Britain, well this could be a sign that journalists are trying to prove that she is a good match, as they know something.
For the very same reasons it is bad news for those who would rather her marry a millionaire and disappear into an opulent life out of sight.
To tell you the truth I think it is just to try and sell more newspapers at a time when most people are away on holiday. Mary Boleyn seemed far enough away to get away with it. I have often said on the forum, royal ancestors are usually remembered by the descendants even if they were the wrong side of the blanket.
I was interested enough to look up some of the descendants of Anne Boleyn´s sister and there were quite a few, Stanhope appeared which makes me wonder if the Lady Serena is one of her descendants, but as I said there seems to be so many it would take up too much time to try and trace them all just for curiosity.
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  #85  
Old 08-05-2010, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Anne83 View Post
This is an illusion Queen Elizabeth doesn't have enough blue blood in her veins William or Harry must do something to correct that People will say what kind of royals are these?

The Queen mightn't but don't forget Philip whose lineage is scattered with royal blood that isn't in the Queen's lineage e.g. I believe he is descended from Charlemagne but the Queen isn't. Through Philip Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward are actually full of more royal blood than their mother. Of course that has been watered down again with their marriages.
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  #86  
Old 08-06-2010, 01:49 PM
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Q

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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Queen mightn't but don't forget Philip whose lineage is scattered with royal blood that isn't in the Queen's lineage e.g. I believe he is descended from Charlemagne but the Queen isn't. Through Philip Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward are actually full of more royal blood than their mother. Of course that has been watered down again with their marriages.

The Queen IS descended from Charlemagne. Also for your information so was the Queen mother, the former Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon.
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  #87  
Old 08-06-2010, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
The Queen IS descended from Charlemagne. Also for your information so was the Queen mother, the former Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon.

That is interesting as all my research has indicated that Philip brought that line into the BRF as it wasn't there before.

Could you provide the lineage please as I have never seen one with Elizabeth coming from Charlemagne, only Philip.
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  #88  
Old 08-06-2010, 07:17 PM
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Oh! Oh! I can! I can!
Of course I asked Wisteria for her link and she gave it to me. It's this one. However! One has to register to get the full geneology and as Russo hasn't registered, Russo doesn't have it. Although! The Legend says those dots at the top are all those that the person is decended from and there are 5 Kings up there along with Charlemagne.
Of course Wisteria will set things right once she comes one, however! I was SO excited about this new toy I had to jump in. Wisteria, I hope you forgive me!

GeneAll.net - Elizabeth II, Queen of Great Britain
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  #89  
Old 08-07-2010, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
That is interesting as all my research has indicated that Philip brought that line into the BRF as it wasn't there before.

Could you provide the lineage please as I have never seen one with Elizabeth coming from Charlemagne, only Philip.
Of course, I have much better sources than this, but on the spur of the moment I found this as I am not that keen on publishing my family tree on the forum but for starters you can look at this. Google has many references to the royal descendants (and others who are descended from Charlemagne). Not long ago there was a site asking for all persons who could prove (prove is the key word) that they were descended from Charlemagne to add their names to it.

Descendants of Charlemagne - Familypedia

To make it easier for you to search even though there are more links to Charlemagne, both Prince Albert and Queen Victoria were descended from Charlemagne.
As far as the Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (the Queen Mother) the connection (among others) is through Joan Stuart, Princess of Scotland who married John Lyon, Master of Glamis.
These are the most simple to find but HM is not descended just through one line but many leading to Charlemagne and many other great Kings.
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  #90  
Old 08-07-2010, 06:24 AM
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Mods if this should go to a new thread please do.
But as we were talking about Charlemagne here is a list of the Presidents of the United State of America who are/were actually descended from Charlemagne to related to the British Royal family and most of the other royal families of Europe.

George Washington William Jefferson Clinton
John Adams George Walker Bush
Thomas Jefferson Barack Hussein Obama
James Madison
James Monroe
John Quincy Adams
Andrew Jackson
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
James Knox Polk
Zachary Taylor
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses Simpson Grant
Stephen Grover
Benjamin Harrison
Theodore Rossevelt
William Howard Taft
John Calvin Coolidge
Herbert Clark Hoover
Franklin Delano Rossevelt
Richard Milhouse Nixon
Gerald Rudolph Ford
James Earl Carter Jr
Ronald Wilson Reagan
George Herbert Bush
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  #91  
Old 08-07-2010, 11:21 AM
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"You can ask whether everyone in the Western world is descended from Charlemagne, and the answer is yes, we're all descended from Charlemagne. But can you prove it? That's the game of genealogy." The Atlantic | May 2002 | The Royal We | Olson

"There is virtually no chance that anyone of European ancestry is not directly descended from Charlemagne." Everyone is Descended From Charlemagne

Though I am not sure how you came to discussing Charlemagne's descendants in this thread.
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  #92  
Old 08-07-2010, 12:56 PM
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to nitpick, if you're going to have George Bush on there, then so should George W. Bush. And it's actually George Herbert Walker Bush.
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  #93  
Old 08-07-2010, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
to nitpick, if you're going to have George Bush on there, then so should George W. Bush. And it's actually George Herbert Walker Bush.
There are two George Bushs' on the list, one at the bottom, and one just above Barack Obama at the top of what I presume is the next list.
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  #94  
Old 08-07-2010, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
There are two George Bushs' on the list, one at the bottom, and one just above Barack Obama at the top of what I presume is the next list.
You are right Lumut, when I posted they were in another column.
Kotroman, as to why Charlemagne was introduced to the thread, I was asked by Iluvbertie to give a link to prove that the Queen was descended from Charlemagne. I think that HM´s family tree has been sufficiently recorded to give her the benefit of the doubt, but as to Mr Jones of the local bakery, well if he has proof!
Now let´s forget Charlemagne, I did ask for the link to the Presidents to be moved if thought necessary,but I thought it wass rather interesting for our US members and some of the names are quite surprising.
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  #95  
Old 08-24-2010, 02:48 AM
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British Descent From the Tang Dynasty

Hello:

sevaral years ago, I came across mention of an article in a Chinese newspaper that maintained Queen Elizabeth II had possible Tang Dynasty of China ancestors. While I and another have pieced together one such possibility, I would like to see the original article.

Does anyone know where this was published?

What is the lineage? (note: anything online about this I already have seen or I am one of the sources for, so, referring me there won't help)

thank-you
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  #96  
Old 08-26-2010, 06:36 AM
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Hello,I copied this from another forum where I think you asked the same question and thought that it would also be good to be seen here...here is the line:


Emperor Su Tsung (Tang)
Ning-Kuo (daughter) m. Moyenhur (Uighur)
Bayanue (daughter) m. Surkhab II (Tabaristan)
Sharwin I
Karim
Shahriyar I
Qarin
Abul Melik
Surkhab
Abul-Hamza
Michke m. Katchik-Gagik (Vaspurakin)
Abu Sahl Hamazasp III
Derenik
Katchik I
Hasan
Abul Gharib
daughter m. Auschin I (Lampron)
Hetum II
Alix m. Balian d'Ibelin

Guy d'Ibelin

Alix d'Ibelin m. Hugh de Lusignan
Jacques I 

James I de Lusignan m. Charlotte Bourbon

Anne de Lusignan m. Louis (Savoy)

Margaret m. Peter (Luxemburg) 1390-1433

Louis

Peter

Marie m. Francis Bourbon

Antoinette m. Claude, Duke of Guise

Mary m. James V of Scotland

James VI

Elizabeth m. Frederick V of Bavaria

Sophia m. Ernst Augustus, Elector of Hanover

George I

George II

Frederick

George III

Edward

Victoria

Edward VII

George V

George VI

Elizabeth II


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  #97  
Old 08-29-2010, 01:14 AM
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marc:

thank-you. however, I am looking for what the original article maintained and how it compares to the lineage I and a friend worked out. the latter is what you posted. I am also interested in any other possibilities
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  #98  
Old 08-29-2010, 08:05 PM
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The United States presidents up until a certain point were also former British subjects. Is it possible that some of them could've been British nobility as well?
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  #99  
Old 08-30-2010, 01:03 AM
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nobility? no. but their ancestors were
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  #100  
Old 08-31-2010, 12:24 AM
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Lightbulb Bridging the Gap: Ethnic Strains in the British Royal Family

The Monarchist League of Canada: Our Multicultural Monarchy - OUR MULTI-CULTURAL MONARCHY

www.monarchist.ca/redbox/ourmulticulturalmonarchy.doc

As well as being the great family tree of Canadian history, the Royal Family also connects us directly with the wider panorama of recorded human history, embracing the four corners of the world and many of its races.

ARAB
Queen Elizabeth II descends from the Muslims who created the Arab Andalusian civilization of Spain. Since some of those people sprang from the family of the Prophet, the Queen herself is a descendant of Mohammed. When Her Majesty visited Morocco in 1980, the Moroccan media pointed out this Islamuc ancestry of Canada’s Queen.

ARMENIAN
The Prince of Wales (Charles) descends from both the medieval Armenian Kings and from the earlier rulers of ancient Armenia.

AUSTRIAN
(and SWISS) All the immediate Royal Family have Habsburg ancestors who came originally from Switzerland, and who created the state of Austria.

BOSNIAN
Stephen Tvrtko, who his made his Kingdom of Bosnia the greatest Balkan power in the Middle Ages, is an ancestor of The Queen through her grandmother Queen Mary.

BELGIAN
Although the modern Belgian state dates from only 1830, the Belgian cultural heritage is that of old Burgundy. The famous Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy, is a direct ancestor of Charles, Princes of Wales. Pictures show them looking remarkably alike !

BYZANTINE GREEK
The Duke of Edinburgh (Prince Philip) has the blood of the Angeloi and Sommenoi Emperors of the East as well as of the famous Palaeologus Sovereigns of Byzantium in his veins.

CHINESE
During the visit of Elizabeth II to China in 1986, articles published in the Chinese media traced Her Majesty’s lineage to the Tang Dynasty, whose Emperors provided the Chinese Empire with a period of great peace, prosperity and artistic achievement.

CROATIAN
The Croatian ancestry of The Queen includes the House of Subic. Her Majesty is also descended from several Bans of Croatia.

CUMAN
The Cumans originally lived in southern Russia before being driven west into Hungary by the Mongols. Kutyen, their Khan, is an ancestor of Charles, Prince of Wales.

CZECH
All the Bohemian Kings who left children are ancestors of Charles, Prince of Wales.

DANISH Through the Duke of Edinburgh (Prince Philip) the Royal Family is Danish in the male line.

DUTCH William the Silent, Prince of Orange and founder of the Dutch state, is a forebear of Charles, Prince of Wales.

ENGLISH Charles, Prince of Wales, descends from every English King who left descendants except Charles I, Charles II and James II. The Prince’s sons, Prince William and Prince Harry of Wales, are descendants several times over of Charles I, Charles II and James II through their mother, the late Diana, Princess of Wales.

FRENCH Queen Elizabeth II is descended from Saint Louis, who was King Louis IX, the most famous medieval King of France, and from many other Carolingin, Capetian and Valois Sovereigns. Through their mother, the late Diana, Princess of Wales, Princes William and Harry of Wales are descended five times over from Henri IV, King of France, who sent Champlain to Canada, and who by insisting that commercial activities in the new land be accompanied by settlement, laid the original foundations for the French-speaking community of Canada.

GEORGIAN Now once again an independent country, Georgia was a Kingdom has long ago as the days of the Greco-Roman world. The Prince of Wales (Charles) descends from many of its ancient and modern monarchs.

GERMAN German ancestry makes up a good part of the Royal Family’s background. Included in it are the great medieval Emperors and the dynasties of Bavaria, Saxony, Hesse, Baden, Mecklenburg, Brunswick and Anhalt, as well as such famous families as Hohenlohe, Moltke and Trauttmansdorf. Frederick the Great was an ancestral uncle of the Duke of Edinburgh (Prince Philip).

IRISH Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother brought into the Royal Family the blood of the Dal Cais and Eoganacht dynasties of Munster and that of the Ui Neill High Kings. Charles, Prince of Wales, also descends from Brian Boru, Nial of the Nine Hostages and the Iron Age sacral Kings of Tara.

ITALIAN The Dukes of Savoy, the medieval Kings of Sicily, the Orsini of Rome, the Visconti of Milan, the della Scala of Verona and the Doria of Genoa are among the many Italian families whose blood has come to Charles, Prince of Wales.

JEWISH Charles, Prince of Wales, descends from the Colonna family who were Jewish in origin. He also has descent from the Khazars (see below) who adopted Judaism as their religion. The Queen and her family enjoy another Jewish descent from an historical figure named Makhir. He was a Jewish Prince of the Davidic Royal House sent by Caliph Harun-al-Rashid as ambassador to the Emperor Charlemagne at the end of the 9th Century. Makhir remained in Europe where he founded a family, one of whose descendants married into the medieval English Royal Family.

KHAZAR The Khazars formed a powerful state between the Byzantine Empire and the Islamic world. The Queen is descended from Menu Morat, Elteber of the Bihar Khazars.

LITHUANIAN The Queen is a descendant of Gedimin, the last pagan King of the Lithuanians who died in 1341.

MONGOL The Prince of Wales (Charles) is a direct descendant of Genghis Khan. This relationship provides The Royal Family with another link to China, for Genghis Khan’s grandson Kublai Khan became Emperor of China and founder of its Yuan Dynasty.

NORWEGIAN Harold Haardrade, King of Norway, and the old Norse jarls of Orkney are ancestors of Charles, Prince of Wales.

PERSIAN Through their mother, Princes William and Harry of Wales descend from Arsakes Vologaeses V Dikaios Epiphanes Philhellen, sacral King of Parthia, and of the Parthian Royal House of Arsaces who ruled Persia (Iran), Mesopotamia and Babylon (Iraq). The Parthian kings claimed descent from the earlier Achaemenid Dynasty. If true, this relationship makes the young Princes descendants of Cyrus the Great, and establishes a blood link with Classical Greece.

POLISH The original Piast Dynasty and Jagielonian Kings up to Sygmunt I (d. 1548) are all ancestors of The Prince of Wales (Charles). During her visit to Poland in 1996, The Queen made public reference to her Polish royal ancestors.

PORTUGESE Alfonzo, Duke of Braganza, is an ancestor of The Royal Family. The Holy Constable who secured Portugal’s independence is also an ancestor several times over of Princes William and Harry of Wales.

ROMANIAN Queen Mary, grandmother of Elizabeth II, brought Romanian blood into The Royal Family as well as Hungarian. Thus the Queen is descended from Vlad Dracul, Prince of Wallachia and father of the original Dracula !

RUSSIAN The Prince of Wales (Charles) descends from Peter the Great and Catherine the Great as well as the princes of the Rurik period. The later Russian Emperors through the murdered Nicholas II were close relatives of The Royal Family.

SCOTTISH King George VI (his grandfather) and the Duke of Edinburgh (his father) together provide the Prince of Wales (Charles) with twenty-two descents from Mary Queen of Scots and over two hundred from Robert the Bruce.

SERBIAN Serbia’s greatest ruler, Emperor Stephen Dusan, and the first King of Serbia, Stephen I, are both ancestors of The Queen.

SPANISH Ferdinand and Isabella, sponsors of Columbus’ expedition to America, and the epic Spanish hero El Cid are among the notable Spanish ancestors of Elizabeth II.

SWEDISH Through Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, his son The Prince of Wales (Charles) is descended from the Peace Kings of Uppsala and the rulers of Sweded in the age of the sagas, as well as many other of the historic figures of that land.

UKRANIAN Elizabeth II is 31st in direct descent from Volodymyr Monomachus, ruler of the Ukraine.

WELSH As is appropriate for a Prince of Wales, Charles is descended from Llywelen the Great and most of the Welsh Kings and Princes back to the time the Romans left Britain.
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