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  #461  
Old 05-27-2017, 12:24 AM
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Curryong, thank you for not being a big Monty Python foot on my posts.
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  #462  
Old 05-27-2017, 02:24 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
What is wrong with saying "German Royals"?

This isn't 1917.

HM has a fraction of German blood, OK, a hefty serving of that orderly pie, but maybe it is the German blood that has made her so perfect as an imperturbable monarch.

Being thought of German ... that's nothing.
This is thread about genealogy, not about politics or their thoughts, views etc.

In genealogy terms, for someone whose 126 out of 128 nearest ancestors were from German families, saying that isn't German just because she didn't like Germans and she didn't feel German because of the politics of the day is absurd.

How she felt, how she dealt with various things is for the thread about her personally, but in genealogy there isn't such thing, as we explore something you were born with, not something you can change through your life depending on circumstances.
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  #463  
Old 05-27-2017, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I agree that until the Duke of York married Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyon British sovereigns and their consorts were of mainly German blood, however they regarded themselves.
More interesting fact is that Elizabeth Bowes has also descended from various German families through her Bentinck ancestors.

Those ancestors were Counts von Oldenburg-Delmenhorst(same dynasty as Prince Philipp), Counts von Bentheim, Counts von Sayn, von Götterswick, von Münster, von Bodelschwingh, von Lüdinghausen and so on...
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  #464  
Old 05-27-2017, 03:49 AM
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Yes, that's so. However, Hans Bentinck came over to England with William of Orange (III), which was some time ago now, and since then the Dukes of Portland and Cavendish-Bentincks have mostly married fellow Britons and certainly the Queen Mother's paternal line married Scots and English brides and grooms. I don't think you could honestly say that the Queen Mother's ancestry was primarily German.
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  #465  
Old 05-27-2017, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I don't think you could honestly say that the Queen Mother's ancestry was primarily German.
Certainly not

But we were discussing ancestry of Queen Alexandra, for whom everybody likes to say that she wasn't German.

She was Princess of Denmark when she married Edward, Prince of Wales, but she was born as German Princess von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, which was her official title until the age of 9.

If Frederick VII had a legitimate son, she would stay Princess von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.
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  #466  
Old 05-27-2017, 10:47 AM
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I'm staying out of this argument.
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  #467  
Old 05-27-2017, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I'm staying out of this argument.
This is not an argument, just genealogy facts.

I just don't know what is wrong with stating them?

This is thread about British royal family genealogy and the purpose of this thread is stating genealogy facts.

I am not saying anything that isn't written in genealogy charts.

In case you don't trust me:

http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree....&generations=8

And you will se what I was talking about!
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  #468  
Old 05-27-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Certainly not

But we were discussing ancestry of Queen Alexandra, for whom everybody likes to say that she wasn't German.

She was Princess of Denmark when she married Edward, Prince of Wales, but she was born as German Princess von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, which was her official title until the age of 9.

If Frederick VII had a legitimate son, she would stay Princess von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.
The thing is its not as easy as saying Alexandra was German period. The House of Schleswig-Holstein had for centuries ruled over Schleswig, a part of the Danish dominion since the early Middle-ages and with a Danish speaking majority up until the early 19th century. Both her parents were raised in Copenhagen & the generations before them had married as much among themselves, into the BRF as with German families. Most of them were German by descent yes but nationality is as much about self-perception as about fact.
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  #469  
Old 05-27-2017, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
The thing is its not as easy as saying Alexandra was German period. The House of Schleswig-Holstein had for centuries ruled over Schleswig, a part of the Danish dominion since the early Middle-ages and with a Danish speaking majority up until the early 19th century. Both her parents were raised in Copenhagen & the generations before them had married as much among themselves, into the BRF as with German families. Most of them were German by descent yes but nationality is as much about self-perception as about fact.
Oldenburg dynasty was/is German dynasty which ruled and still rules in many countries.

In genealogy terms it doesn't matter where they rule as genealogically they are still German dynasty that married almost only Germans for centuries, either from Germany or from German dynasties that ruled in other countries.

In genealogy terms, will I be Chinese if I am born and raised there and don't have a drop of Chinese blood? Maybe I would have citizenship which will for sure determine me as a person and shape my feelings, but in genealogy terms I stay who I am and who my ancestors were, because genealogy is not subjective thing, but exact as we are already born with it and can't change it, just like we can always easily change cities, countries or our passports based on our circumstances.
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  #470  
Old 05-27-2017, 12:43 PM
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If one really had to nitpick about ancestry, all of these people above whether from most areas of Western Europe, descend from the Gallic people of antiquity.
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  #471  
Old 09-05-2017, 10:01 AM
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Please review my British Monarch Family Tree

Hello everyone , I'm a web programmer, I am currently building an interactive family tree of the British monarch at my site,
HTML Code:
<a href="http://www.scienic-data.com/force-layout-british-monarch-family-tree/" target="_blank">here</a>
it is.

This is based on data from
HTML Code:
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_the_British_royal_family" target="_blank">wiki source</a>
.

Since a family tree will look better with pictures, I'm trying to embed pictures/photos of the monarch family members into the tree nodes. As the wiki source above did not came with pictures, I must find them by googling. Now, the more famous/important member of the family tree will have their pictures easier to find, however some of the family members pictures seems nowhere to be found, even by googling.

Currently, I'm trying to find pictures of Feodora von der Horst(1905 - 1991) and Maria Reindl(1908 - 1996), both were spouses of Johann Leopold (1906 - 1972). Also, does anybody has picture of the adult Johann Leopold? What i currently display on the tree is him as child, i want to change that, if i can...

And i've recently notice that the wiki source does not actually display very complete family members. Upon inspecting on Johann Leopold
HTML Code:
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Leopold,_Hereditary_Prince_of_Saxe-Coburg_and_Gotha" target="_blank">wiki page</a>
, i came to notice that he has a younger brother that does not displayed on the wiki tree : Hubertus (1901 - 1943). Is there any particular reason for this, or it is just a mere wiki error? Should i displayed him on my interactive tree as well?

Are there any other family members that i haven't diplay yet on my family tree?

And also please confirm did I use every pictures correctly? Or do you see any error? Please look at the family crest emblems, are those properly placed? And about persons, I particulary a litle concern about the picture of Caroline Mathilda (1912 - 1983), is it the correct picture of her, or another person who coincidentally have the same name?

Hint(s) :
  • You can use the 'Search' box to find a certain family member in the tree.
  • Zoom with mouse scrooll button.
  • You can drag the tree to adjust position.
  • Use 'Reset' button to reset tree position.

Thank you for your time.
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  #472  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:03 PM
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I have one as well! At dawnpiercy.com ...bet we are related 🤔
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  #473  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:06 PM
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It's set up nicely
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  #474  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:15 PM
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The Royal Arms of the British Royal Family

Hello,

I am currently completing an online Heraldry Course with the IHGS, Cantebury, with a view to sitting The Heraldry Society's examinations in 2018.

A course assignment on which I am currently working requires me to discover the personal differences used by members of the Royal Family on their personal coats of arms. The research is proving very enjoyable, but I'm coming across some contradictory information and am looking for expert advice. My specific queries are:

1. I have read that coats of arms are not awarded until an individual member of the Royal Family attains the age of 18 years. However, I have seen evidence of arms being awarded at a much younger age. Would it be fair to say that arms are 'typically' awarded at the age of 18?
2. Are all coats of arms of members of the Royal Family awarded by the Queen, including consorts, or does the Queen does issue arms to children and grandchildren?
3. I assume that, in the event of divorce from a Royal Family member, any coats of arms awarded to the 'non-royal' spouse are nullified (e.g. Captain Mark Phillips).

Any help that forum members can provide will be much appreciated.
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  #475  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:36 PM
cepe's Avatar
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The most accurate source of information for you would be the Royal College of Arms.

This is their website.
The Law of Arms - College of Arms

I’m sure they would be able to help
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  #476  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBroom1 View Post
1. I have read that coats of arms are not awarded until an individual member of the Royal Family attains the age of 18 years. However, I have seen evidence of arms being awarded at a much younger age. Would it be fair to say that arms are 'typically' awarded at the age of 18?
I believe the standard of being granted a coat of arms is something that's only happened with the Queen's grandchildren; her children and cousins all received them at a variety of ages.


Quote:
2. Are all coats of arms of members of the Royal Family awarded by the Queen, including consorts, or does the Queen does issue arms to children and grandchildren?
I don't know who does the actual awarding, but the Queen, her children, grandchildren, and cousins all have arms (excluding the Wessex children). The Duke of Edinburgh and the wives of the above all have arms as well; in the case of the wives, the arms are that of their husbands' impaled with that of their father's.


Quote:
3. I assume that, in the event of divorce from a Royal Family member, any coats of arms awarded to the 'non-royal' spouse are nullified (e.g. Captain Mark Phillips).


Nope. The arms of an ex-wife would change, but the arms of an ex-husband are unaffected.

When Mark Phillips married a coat of arms was granted to his father, and as his father's son he used those arms with a differentiation. When his father died he inherited his father's arms. Peter and Zara's arms are based on their father's.

When Diana was married to Charles, her arms where her husband's impaled with her father's. When they divorced, her arms became a variant of her father's arms. Sarah's arms follow this as well.
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  #477  
Old 10-13-2017, 06:45 AM
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Many thanks for your guidance 'Ish'.
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  #478  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:57 AM
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Speaking of BRF genealogy, have any genealogists been able to prove that Queen Charlotte had African ancestry?
And has it been proven that Mary Boleyn is Henry Carey's mother? Wikipedia believes it's supposed.
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  #479  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Speaking of BRF genealogy, have any genealogists been able to prove that Queen Charlotte had African ancestry?
And has it been proven that Mary Boleyn is Henry Carey's mother? Wikipedia believes it's supposed.
Regarding Charlotte: the idea that Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz had African ancestry is based on the research of one person (Mario Valdes) who makes several errors in his research, and ignores the fact that Charlotte's alleged African ancestor lived 500 years before her, is something like 15 generations removed, and was actually of unknown ethnicity; she may have been North African, she may not have been. Suggestions that the ancestor was North African didn't come up until 400 year after she'd died, and suggestions that Charlotte was somehow African as a result of it are hugely unsubstantiated.

Regarding Henry Carey: I've never seen any suggestion that anyone other than Mary Boleyn was his mother. There is a rumour that Henry VIII may have fathered one or both of Mary's elder children (Catherine and Henry Carey), but that can't really be proven. While we know when Mary's children were born, we don't know for sure when Mary was Henry VIII's mistress, and even if we did we don't know exactly when she was having sex with Henry VIII and when she was having sex with her husband, and we're not likely to ever know that. So, really the only way to ever prove that anyone other than William Carey (the acknowledged father of both Catherine and Henry Carey) fathered the children would be to do DNA testing. Which would require exhuming 400 year old corpses.
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  #480  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:23 PM
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I do remember seeing a picture of Catherine Carey and thinking she looked an awful lot like Henry VIII ....


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