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  #341  
Old 10-10-2013, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
What about if HM is related to Diana Hay?
Diana Hay's line is this:
  1. George III
  2. William IV
  3. Elizabeth FitzClarence
  4. Major William Hay, 19th Earl of Erroll
  5. Lt.-Col. Charles Gore Hay, 20th Earl of Erroll
  6. Victor Alexander Sereld Hay, 21st Earl of Erroll
  7. Josslyn Victor Hay, 22nd Earl of Erroll
  8. Diana Denyse Hay, 23rd Countess of Errol
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
    Is HM also related to:1
  10. ) Infanta Alicia, Duchess of Calabria
  11. 2) Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou, and
  12. 3) Duchess Marie Therese of Wurttemberg?
  13. Infante Alicia, Duchess of Calabria, born Princess Alicia of Bourbon-Parma:
  1. Johan Willem Friso
  2. William IV, Prince of Orange
  3. Princess Caroline of Orange-Nassau
  4. Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg
  5. Princess Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg
  6. Archduchess Marie Theresa of Austria-Teschen
  7. Princess Maria Pia of the Two Sicilies
  8. Elias, Duke of Parma
  9. Princess Alicia of Bourbon-Parma
Her husband Infante Alfonso's line is:
  1. Johan Willem Friso
  2. William IV, Prince of Orange
  3. Princess Caroline of Orange-Nassau
  4. Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg
  5. Princess Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg
  6. Archduchess Marie Theresa of Austria-Teschen
  7. Prince Alfonso, Count of Caserta
  8. Prince Carlos of Bourbon-Two Sicilies
  9. Infante Alfonso, Duke of Calabria
Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou:
  1. Johan Willem Friso
  2. Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Baden
  3. Charles Louis, Hereditary Prince of Baden
  4. Princess Wilhelmine of Baden
  5. Prince Alexander of Hesse and by Rhine
  6. Colonel Prince Henry of Battenberg
  7. Princess Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg
  8. Infante Jamie, Duke of Segovia
  9. Alfonso, Duke of Anjou and Cádiz
  10. Louis Alphonso, Duke of Anjou
Duchess Marie Thérèse of Württemberg, Duchess of Montpensier
  1. Johan Willem Friso
  2. Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Baden
  3. Charles Louis, Hereditary Prince of Baden
  4. Princess Caroline of Baden
  5. Princess Sophie of Bavaria
  6. Archduke Karl Ludwig of Austria
  7. Archduchess Margarete Sophie of Austria
  8. Philipp Albrecht, Duke of Württemberg
  9. Duchess Marie Thérèse of Württemberg, Duchess of Montpensier
Philipp Albrecht also had a sister named Marie Therese.
.
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  #342  
Old 10-11-2013, 08:04 AM
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A quick question... Since we're on the topic of Diana... Are the Spencer's and the Windsors related?
So HM is related to Infanta Alicia through John William Friso?
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  #343  
Old 10-11-2013, 03:45 PM
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The Spencers and the Windsors have many shared relations. I believe (off the top of my head) the closest one is their mutual descent from James I; the Windsors descend from James' daughter, Elizabeth, while the Spencers descend from James' son, Charles.

Diana also had a lot of family connections with the Queen Mother as well. Really prior to the Hanovers, the BRF married a lot of aristocrats, and Diana's family has a long aristocratic ancestry.

Yes. I traced HM's descent from Johan earlier in this thread.
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  #344  
Old 10-11-2013, 04:11 PM
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Thanks for that. I have a long book by Iain Moncreiffe about the Spencer & Windsor ancestry of Prince William.
I read in "Ancestry of the Royal Child" that Prince William has Persian and Albanian ancestry.

Is William related to:
--Hermann, Prince of Wied
--Any Asian royal families?
Besides the Queen Mother's Islamic ancestry.
And are the Albanian royal family related to the Albanian royals that William's related to?
If he's related to them, I want to see the lines of descent.
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  #345  
Old 10-11-2013, 04:37 PM
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That would be "Royal Highness - Ancestry of the Royal Child" by Sir Iain Moncreiffe of that Ilk, Bt.
Published 1982.
Wherein the descent of the first child of Charles and Diana is detailed from every source imaginable, from Babylonia to Windsor.
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  #346  
Old 10-11-2013, 04:46 PM
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why dont you do the research? The sources should be in the book
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  #347  
Old 10-11-2013, 04:47 PM
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Yes you're correct. I just didn't feel like putting the extremely long title! *Giggles*
There should be a book about Prince George's Windsor-Spencer-Middleton ancestry. I wonder when that will turn up...

His sources aren't in there.
A serious question to you though.... Does it matter that it was published 30 years ago? I ask because what if some of his sources are outdated?
And some things could shut down or close...
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  #348  
Old 10-11-2013, 04:51 PM
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Fair points. Interesting that the sources aren't there. That matters to me more than the age of the book. The best person to ask is Ish on the other thread, I think.
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  #349  
Old 10-11-2013, 04:57 PM
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True. He never listed his sources but he did list both lines of descent and two-three pages of explanations on who each of William's ancestors are in each nationality.

Something's weird. I write something and when I click "Submit", my post gets put in the thread I was in prior to opening the new one I want to post to...
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  #350  
Old 10-11-2013, 05:21 PM
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There is nothing "weird" going on. You keep creating new threads although they all relate to British Royal Family genealogy. Therefore they have been merged into the one existing thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan
His sources aren't in there.
What do you mean "His sources aren't in there."?
Sir Iain Moncreeiffe of that Ilk, Albany Herald at Arms, was a heraldist and genealogical historian. He was President of the Association of Genealogists and Record Agents, Vice President of the Scottish Genealogy Society, Fellow of the Society of Genealogists, a Member of the Court of the Lord Lyon King of Arms etc etc and a former Chairman of Debretts.

His book "Royal Highness - Ancestry of the Royal Child" contains about 80 separate and detailed genealogical lines of descent in over 100 pages. There would be thousands of names listed. Did you expect to find that the original sources for each and every name, date, relationship, anecdote and historical fact that appears in the book be provided?

Genealogical lines of descent of this quality are rare and don't become "out of date" after 30 years. You either accept them or you do your own research and try to come up with something better.
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  #351  
Old 10-11-2013, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Something's weird. I write something and when I click "Submit", my post gets put in the thread I was in prior to opening the new one I want to post to...
What's happened is the other threads have been moved by the mods into this one.

Pertaining to William's ancestry; I don't know if he's related to any of the Asian monarchies although if he is it's a very distant one. Most Asian monarchies had at least a degree of isolation and wouldn't have married a Westerner.

With the Albanian family, I don't know the line of descent but given as William has a lengthy ancestry in Eastern European monarchies it's very likely that somewhere they have a common ancestor.

As to the lack of sources in Ian Moncreiffe's book, depending on the audience it was intended for it's not necessarily all that uncommon. If it was meant for a more academic audience then it would - or should - be heavily on the sources, but if it's meant for a more general audience it's likely to be light on the sources listed.

The book being 30 years old isn't a problem at all. While some fields change a lot in a short period of time, history and genealogy doesn't - sometimes our understanding of events changes, and the way in which we interpret events changes, but the history typically stands. One thing that should be questioned - especially if there's a lack of sourcing - is what is the bias, and what claims are being made that can be debated.

A good portion of the genealogy here isn't debatable; you can clearly trace the lines of royal and noble families through history. The problem I that you often hit a point where the genealogy isn't necessarily clear. Prior to the modern era, history wasn't always clearly recorded and things that were mythical were recorded as fact - remember, Henry VII once traced his ancestry to King Arthur. When looking at the connections made it's important to try to determine when and by whom they were made - and what the purpose behind making them was.

My recommendation is to check out multiple sources, and even Wikipedia, before taking something as fact. We know that Henry wasn't likely descended from Arthur, any more than he was also descended from Woden (also claimed at one point).
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  #352  
Old 10-11-2013, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
There is nothing "weird" going on...
A few responses.

1) That makes sense. Didn't know that at the time that they were merged.
2) I just was making a point. Good point, they probably don't.
And for most of the lines I looked up, I couldn't look up better research.

I also do have a question for you.
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  #353  
Old 10-12-2013, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Is William related to:
--Hermann, Prince of Wied?
One of many lines is:

Count Alexander zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1661-1728)
I
Count Albrecht zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1698-1752)
I
Countess Friederike zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1738-1786)
I
Duke Friedrich von Hosltein-Sonderburg-Beck (1757-1816)
I
Duke Wilhelm von Schleswig-Hosltein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (1785-1851)
I
King Christian IX of Denamrk (1818-1906)
I
Princess Alexandra of Denmark (1844-1925)
I
King George V of Great Britain (1865-1936)
I
King George VI of Great Britain (1895-1952)
I
Queen Elizabeth II of Great Briatin (1926-)
I
Prince Charles, Prince of Wales (1948-)
I
Prince William, Duke of Cambridge (1982-)

and

Count Alexander zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1661-1728)
I
Count Albrecht zu Dohna-Schlobitten (1698-1752)
I
Countess Louise Charlotte zu Dohna-Schlodien (1688-1736)
I
Prince Johann Friedrich zu Wied (1706-1791)
I
Prince Friedrich Carl zu Wied (1741-1802)
I
Prince Johann August zu Wied-Neuwied (1775-1836)
I
Prince Hermann zu Wied (1814-1864)

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
--Any Asian royal families?
Besides the Queen Mother's Islamic ancestry.
The Queen visited China in 1986 and as a present she got her ancestry line from the Chinese Emperors(through Mary of Teck),so I guess there are some chances that she is very distantly related to some of them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
And are the Albanian royal family related to the Albanian royals that William's related to?
If he's related to them, I want to see the lines of descent.
I didn't understand the question,but Albanian royal family is related to Prince William.Here is the line of Albanian royal family from Prince Johann Georg II von Anhalt-Dessau (1627-1693) and the line to Prince William:

Prince Johann Georg II von Anhalt-Dessau (1627-1693)
I
Prince Leopold I von Anhalt-Dessau (1676-1747)
I
Prince Leopold I von Anhalt-Dessau (1700-1751)
I
Princess Agnes von Anhalt-Dessau (1744-1799)
I
Baroness Agnes von Loen (1783-1832)
I
Count Hermann von Seherr-Thoss (1810-1893)
I
Countess Marguerite von Seherr-Thoss (1848-1931)
I
Count Gyula Apponyi de Nagy-Apponyi (1873-1924)
I
Countess Geraldine Apponyi de Nagy-Apponyi (1915-2002)
I
King Leka I of Albania (1939-2011)

and

Prince Johann Georg II von Anhalt-Dessau (1627-1693)
I
Princess Henriette Amalia von Anhalt-Dessau (1666-1726)
I
Prince Johan Willem Friso of Orange-Nassau (1689-1711)
I
Prince Willem IV of Orange-Nassau (1711-1751)
I
Princess Carolina of Orange-Nassau (1743-1787)
I
Pincess Henriette von Nassau-Weilburg (1780-1857)
I
Duke Alexander von Württemberg (1804-1885)
I
Duke Franz von Teck (1844-1900)
I
Princess Mary von Teck (1867-1953)
I
King George VI of Great Britain (1895-1952)
I
Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain (1926-)
I
Prince Charles, Prince of Wales (1948-)
I
Prince William, Duke of Cambridge (1982-)
.
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  #354  
Old 10-19-2013, 04:12 PM
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Hi Ish,
About Infanta Alicia & Marie Therese's lines, you gave me their lines from Friso. What would QEII's line be from JWFriso?
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  #355  
Old 10-20-2013, 01:41 PM
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It's already there, if you look.
Elizabeth II's line of descent from Prince Johan Willem Friso appears in Marc23's post directly above yours.
You can also find it in Ish's post #324 and Marengo's post #318.
It doesn't need to be repeated a fourth time.
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  #356  
Old 10-20-2013, 01:47 PM
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I also posted it, along with the descent of the other currently reigning monarchs.
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  #357  
Old 10-27-2013, 05:00 PM
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Is HM the Queen related to:

1) The current Earl of Kellie
2) Margaret of Mar, 31st Countess of Mar
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  #358  
Old 10-28-2013, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Is HM the Queen related to:

1) The current Earl of Kellie
They are related...if not closer through British nobility(which is not very likely to believe that they aren't),they have both descended from Prince William "the Silent" of Nassau-Orange and his wife Juliane zu Stolberg-Wernigerode...

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
2) Margaret of Mar, 31st Countess of Mar
Yes,distantly...One of the mutual lines is from Sir William Cavendish of Chatsworth...
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  #359  
Old 11-05-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quick question: Was Queen Victoria related to Christian IX? And is QEII related to him as well?
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  #360  
Old 11-05-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
And is QEII related to him as well?
Yes. Her Majesty is a great-great-granddaughter o King Christian IX of Denmark.

Christian IX --- Queen Alexandra --- George V --- George VI --- Elizabeth II.
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