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  #321  
Old 10-08-2013, 04:30 PM
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Johan Willem Friso.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
Thank you, Ish. So, if he descends from Prince John William Friso through Princess Pia Maria of the Two Sicilies, I suppose the Portuguese and French (Orleans) Royal Families are related to Prince John William Friso. Am I right?
The Bourbon, Orleans, and Napoleon claims to the throne of France are all descendants. The Portuguese claimant is also a descendant.
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  #322  
Old 10-08-2013, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
The Bourbon, Orleans, and Napoleon claims to the throne of France are all descendants. The Portuguese claimant is also a descendant.
Okay.

You know, Prince Luiz has a lot of Royal ancestors (I was unable to find a commoner ancestor going back five generations of his family tree).

It's difficult to find some European Royal His Imperial and Royal Highness is not a related to.

Thank you, Ish.
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  #323  
Old 10-08-2013, 04:38 PM
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Oh, okay... *Facepalms* Should've known that before.

Ish, I also know that Prince William and the 16th Duke of Hamilton are related, through the Earls of Northumberland.

Here's the line (from the 16th Duke):

16th Duke of Hamilton->15th Duke of Hamilton->8th Duke of North..->7th Duke of North..->6th Duke of North..->Lord Lovaine->1st Earl Beverley->(Earl Beverley's first cousin) 4th Duke of North..->Hugh Percy, 2nd Duke of North..->Hugh Percy, 1st Duke of Northumberland

What would Prince William's line be? I know for a fact that he is related to "Hotspur" Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland. Plus, wouldn't Wills and the 16th Duke be related through the 1st Duke of North's wife Elizabeth Seymour? Her ally held the Earldom of Percy (aka Northumberland?)?

My other question is is Elizabeth II related to the 11th Duke of Hamilton? He (if I'm correct) is Prince Rainier's paternal great-great grandfather.
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  #324  
Old 10-08-2013, 05:16 PM
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Don't how correct it is, but this is a pretty extensive database you can search and look for relations between two people:
Généalogie - Roglo
It shows these relations between HM Queen Elizabeth II and said Duke of Hamilton: *click*
It also has Prince Rainier III as 2x-great-grandson of the 11th Duke Hamilton through his mother Charlotte, her father Louis II and his mother Mary Douglas-Hamilton. Wikipedia confirms this (although I take Wikipedia with a grain of salt).
Hope this helps.
Only downside this database has is, that you have to try several spellings of a name until you have a hit (e.g. Amalia of Orange-Nassau can't be found, so you have to type in Catharina-Amalia van Oranje-Nassau). And it's not complete.

best wishes Michiru

PS: Long-time lurker finally posting. *blushes* Hello, everyone!
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  #325  
Old 10-08-2013, 06:12 PM
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Michiru, thanks for the link. I found many, many, many lines where EII and the 11th Duke are relations of each other. So thanks for that.
But how do I enter in Prince William and the 16th Duke?
Perhaps you could prove my earlier statement, which was:
Quote:
What would Prince William's line be? I know for a fact that he is related to "Hotspur" Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland. Plus, wouldn't Wills and the 16th Duke be related through the 1st Duke of North's wife Elizabeth Seymour? Her ally held the Earldom of Percy (aka Northumberland?)?
Michiru, I put in the Duke's full name (Alexander Douglas Douglas-Hamilton) in Roglo, but the database couldn't find his name.
Do you know if William & the 16th Duke are related?
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  #326  
Old 10-08-2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Michiru, I put in the Duke's full name (Alexander Douglas Douglas-Hamilton) in Roglo, but the database couldn't find his name. Do you know if William & the 16th Duke are related?
If you look at the line from George Villiers on the site that Michiru linked, the 4th person in the Douglas-Hamilton side is James Douglas Hamilton, the 4th Duke. That's where the 16th Duke's ancestry branches:

- The 4th Duke
- Lord Anne Hamilton
- Admiral Charles Hamilton
- Augustus Douglas-Hamilton
- The 13th Duke
- The 14th Duke
- The 15th Duke
- The 16th Duke

William's ancestry in that relationship would be the same as the Queen's, just with him and his father added to her afterwards.
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  #327  
Old 10-08-2013, 08:00 PM
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Here is the line between the Duke of Cambridge and the 16th Duke of Hamilton: Relationship
Apparently they are closer related through the late Diana.

best wishes Michiru
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  #328  
Old 10-08-2013, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou View Post
Here is the line between the Duke of Cambridge and the 16th Duke of Hamilton: Relationship Apparently they are closer related through the late Diana. best wishes Michiru
I knew there was a Hamilton connection for Diana, but I couldn't remember it. My brain is on overload tracing Philip's various Spanish ancestors.
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  #329  
Old 10-08-2013, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou View Post
Here is the line between the Duke of Cambridge and the 16th Duke of Hamilton: Relationship
Apparently they are closer related through the late Diana.

best wishes Michiru
I saw your link. The name that kept coming up was Alfred Hamilton (1862-). I didn't see any mention of the 16th Duke at all...
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  #330  
Old 10-08-2013, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
I saw your link. The name that kept coming up was Alfred Hamilton (1862-). I didn't see any mention of the 16th Duke at all...
They all end in XX, which I think is the 16th Duke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
Okay. You know, Prince Luiz has a lot of Royal ancestors (I was unable to find a commoner ancestor going back five generations of his family tree). It's difficult to find some European Royal His Imperial and Royal Highness is not a related to. Thank you, Ish.
It would be impossible to find a currently ruling European Royal Family that the current Imperial House of Brazil isn't related to, as they all descend from Johan Willem Friso.

As the majority of the non-reigning European Houses also descend from him, it furthers the connection. I'm not sure who the most common ancestor is for all European royal houses, ruling and non-ruling, is, but I have a hard time believing that there isn't someone in recorded history who connects them all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Oh, okay... *Facepalms* Should've known that before. Ish, I also know that Prince William and the 16th Duke of Hamilton are related, through the Earls of Northumberland. Here's the line (from the 16th Duke): 16th Duke of Hamilton->15th Duke of Hamilton->8th Duke of North..->7th Duke of North..->6th Duke of North..->Lord Lovaine->1st Earl Beverley->(Earl Beverley's first cousin) 4th Duke of North..->Hugh Percy, 2nd Duke of North..->Hugh Percy, 1st Duke of Northumberland What would Prince William's line be? I know for a fact that he is related to "Hotspur" Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland. Plus, wouldn't Wills and the 16th Duke be related through the 1st Duke of North's wife Elizabeth Seymour? Her ally held the Earldom of Percy (aka Northumberland?)?
I didn't read this post thoroughly earlier, and I'm computer-less again for the evening but I'll try to pull up this specific line for you later on tonight (if no one else finds it before then).
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  #331  
Old 10-08-2013, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
I saw your link. The name that kept coming up was Alfred Hamilton (1862-). I didn't see any mention of the 16th Duke at all...
The bottom XX is the 16th Duke. If you go to, say Alfred Douglas-Hamilton (13th Duke), you see his titles under his name on the top of the page, there you can click on any given title and get a list of Dukes of Hamilton, the list in the database ends with Duke Alfred, but the others are listed, too, with xx, which you can click and do the relationship computing. By the way, to get the display I linked tick the "long display" box on the "Link between [] and ..." page.

best wishes Michiru
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  #332  
Old 10-08-2013, 09:58 PM
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thanks Ish and everyone who has this profound knowledge of relationships. Very impressed. I come here to learn history.
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  #333  
Old 10-09-2013, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou View Post
The bottom XX is the 16th Duke.
Oh okay. When I clicked on one of the "XX" choices, all it gave me were a bunch of X's. "Married to XX", etc. and I was so confused and thought the page was misleading.

Is EII related to:

1) Diana Hay, 23rd Countess of Errol
2) George Villiers of Brokesby

If so, please give lines of descent. Or the family tree relations.
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  #334  
Old 10-09-2013, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
Ish, as you have the list of descendants of Prince John William Friso, do you know if Prince Luiz, the Head of the Imperial House of Brazil, descends from him? Thank you.
It's occurred to me that I didn't trace the actual lines for you.
  1. Johan Willem Friso
  2. William IV, Prince of Orange
  3. Princess Caroline of Orange Nassau
  4. Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg
  5. Princess Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg
  6. Archduchess Maria Theresa of Austria-Teschen
  7. Prince Alfonso, Count of Caserta
  8. Princess Maria di Grazia of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, married Prince Luiz of Orléans-Braganza
  9. Prince Pedro Henrique of Orléans-Braganza
  10. Prince Luiz of Orléans-Braganza
The other line is:
  1. Johan Willem Friso
  2. William IV, Prince of Orange
  3. Princess Caroline of Orange Nassau
  4. Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg
  5. Princess Henriette of Nassau-Weilburg
  6. Duchess Maria Dorothea of Württemberg
  7. Archduchess Elizabeth Franziska of Austria
  8. Prince Franz of Bavaria
  9. Princess Maria Elisabeth of Bavaria, married Prince Pedro Henrique of Orléans-Braganza
  10. Prince Luiz of Orléans-Braganza
Heads of Houses that appear closely in these lines are:

Infante Carlos, Duke of Calabria, Prince Pedro Carlos of Orléans-Braganza, Archduke Sigismund, Grand Duke of Tuscany, Prince Jean-Christophe Napoléon, Prince Carlo, Duke of Castro. The wives of Charles, Prince Napoléon and Alexander, Crown Prince of Yugoslavia also appear here.
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  #335  
Old 10-09-2013, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
It's occurred to me that I didn't trace the actual lines for you.
Thank you, Ish, that was very nice.

And the Count of Paris and the Duke of Braganza, are they descendants of Prince Johan Friso?
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  #336  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
...Prince William and the 16th Duke of Hamilton are related, through the Earls of Northumberland.
William's descended from the Northumberlands in a number of lines. Specifically, he's descended from 3 of the 2nd Earl of Northumberland's children. My chart on this one is in a bit of an awkward stage right now, so I'm only going to trace one of those lines.
  1. Henry Percy, 2nd Earl of Northumberland
  2. Anne Percy
  3. Mary Hungerford, 5th Baroness Botreaux
  4. George Hastings, 1st Earl of Huntingdon
  5. Francis Hastings, 2nd Earl of Huntingdon
  6. George Hastings, 4th Earl of Huntingdon
  7. Francis Hastings, Lord Hastings
  8. Catherine Hastings
  9. Sir Henry Stanhope, Lord Stanhop
  10. Philip Stanhope, 2nd Earl of Chesterfield
  11. Elizabeth Stanhope
  12. Thomas Lyon, 8th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
  13. John Bowes, 9th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
  14. Thomas Lyon-Bowes, 11th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
  15. Thomas George Lyon-Bowes, Lord Glamis
  16. Claude Bowes-Lyon, 13th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
  17. Claude Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne
  18. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
  19. Elizabeth II
  20. Charles, Prince of Wales
  21. Prince William, Duke of Cambridge

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan View Post
Is EII related to George Villiers of Brokesby.
HM is descended from three of George Villier's children, Edward, Elizabeth, and Susan.
The line from Edward is as follows:
  1. Sir Edward Villiers
  2. Sir Edward Villiers
  3. Anne Villiers
  4. Capt.-Gen. Henry Bentinck, 1st Duke of Portland
  5. William Bentinck, 2nd Duke of Portland
  6. William Cavendish-Bentinck, 3rd Duke of Portland
  7. Lt.-Col. Charles Cavendish-Bentinck
  8. Reverend Charles Cavendish-Bentinck
  9. Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck
  10. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
  11. Elizabeth II
George's wikipedia page lists the 16 PM's who are descended from him. George Villiers (died 1606) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #337  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
Thank you, Ish, that was very nice. And the Count of Paris and the Duke of Braganza, are they descendants of Prince Johan Friso?
I can't find the Duke of Braganza in the chart, and the Count of Paris isn't a descendant, but his wife is.
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  #338  
Old 10-10-2013, 07:47 AM
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Hi Ish,

Thanks for the lines and clearing it up.
What about if HM is related to Diana Hay?
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  #339  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:11 AM
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Well,she is...Diana Hay is a descendant of King William IV through his illegitimate daughter Elizabeth,who was the Countess of Erroll,while the Queen is descendant of King William's brother Edward...
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  #340  
Old 10-10-2013, 04:26 PM
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I know of the Queen's descent. But thanks for the info.
Is HM also related to:

1) Infanta Alicia, Duchess of Calabria
2) Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou, and
3) Duchess Marie Therese of Wurttemberg?
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