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  #201  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:01 PM
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I found recently I am descended from the "foremother' of the House of Stewart, Eschyna de Molle. Eschyna married Walter Fitzallen, the first High Steward of Scotland in the 12th century,and had several children, including the second High Steward, Allan Fitzwalter. But before she married Walter, she married Sir Robert de Croc, one of the knights who accompanied Walter to Scotland and was given land there. With Robert de Croc, she had several children, including my ancestor Isabel de Croc de Pollok. Isabel married my ancestor Robert de Pollok, who also accompanied Walter Fitzallen from England to Scotland. I found this in a book "Normans in Scotland" by Graeme Ritchie, and also in the annals of the town of Crookston (Crocs'town), which is now a part of Glasgow. There is a very old stone castle in Crookston built by the Darnley Stuarts after they inherited Croc's land. Robert Croc's castle was built of wood in the 12th century, but the 12th c. moat is still there, as is the moat around the nearby castle foundation built by my ancestor Robert Pollok. So this may be off the main topic but it's a hoot for me! I hope you enjoyed my hoot. Here's to Eschyna, who had ten children with three husbands and lived to be either 99 years old or 79, depending on variant annals.
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  #202  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandduchess24 View Post
Of course that is how the duke of Edinburgh is related to king George III
The point was, the Poster I responded to, said he could find no connection after George III (no distinction made maternal/paternal), to any British monarch after George III. I pointed out the obvious one the poster was missing or choosing to ignore, Victoria. As George had numerous children who had descendents, it is quite possible to be of the line of George III, but not descended from any other monarch.
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  #203  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:29 PM
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SLV wasn't missing the obvious one, though. The conversation which started the whole line of Philip part originated with her showing us the tree she did showing how Philip and the Queen descend from Victoria and George III, and beyond that Edward III.

I had made a comment saying that there were a few lines through which Philip is descended from George III (which is a mistake, there's just the one line through Victoria; I think I meant Edward III and not George). The comment to which you responded was SLV telling me how she couldn't find any other George III - Philip connections.
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  #204  
Old 07-21-2013, 08:22 PM
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I thought it was the Windsors for some reason, partially the reason for Charles interest in Romania.

http://www.today.com/id/45063968/ns/.../#.Uex8FUf4DIV
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  #205  
Old 07-21-2013, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Homme View Post
Royal baby strange facts

I like this fact: The Islamic Sultan bit is through the Spencers I believe.
They are distantly related, extremely distantly, but not descended.

The Moorish Princess in question is Zaida, mistress and sometimes considered wife, of Alfonse VI of Castile.

Diana and the Spencers are descended from one of the bastards of Charles II. Charles maternal grandmother (mother of Queen Henrietta Marie) was Marie de Medicci. Marie was a direct descendent of Alphonse, through her mother Joanna who was a granddaughter of Joanna the Mad of Castile. But they are descendents of Alphonso through his daughter Urraca, who was mothered not by Zaida, but his second wife Constance of Burgundy.

The Windsors are not, as Henrietta Marie's line died out in England, with Anne. It was her sister in law Elizabeth, who the Hannoverians are descended from.
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  #206  
Old 07-21-2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
Queen Mary (Princess Mary of Teck) is a descendant of Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia
The current non-reigning King Michael of Romania is a descendant of Queen Victoria. His grandmother was the granddaughter of the Queen, daughter of Victoria's second son Albert of Saxa-Coburg-Gotha. All roads lead to London, someway. :)))
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  #207  
Old 07-22-2013, 05:15 PM
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So, since the newest descendant of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert has been born today, I thought I might post my chart tracing the descendants of the pair of them.

http://sdrv.ms/133pRVZ
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  #208  
Old 07-23-2013, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
Queen Mary (Princess Mary of Teck) is a descendant of Vlad III, Prince of Wallachia
Here is the line from Vlad II Dracul,who was the father of Vlad Dracula,or Vlad the Impaler:

Vlad II Dracul,"Vlad the Dragon",Duke of Wallachia,ruled from 1430-1446
I
Vlad IV ''the Monk",Duke of Wallachia,lived from 1435-1495
I
Radu IV "the Great",Duke of Wallachia,lived from 1467-1508
I
Mircea III "the Shepherd",Duke of Wallachia,died in 1559
I
Princess Stanca Basarab of Wallachia
I
Semphira Logofat de Szaszebes,died in 1602
I
Adam Racz de Galgo
I
Peter Racz de Galgo
I
Christina Racz de Galgo
I
Katalin Kuun de Osdola
I
Agnes Kendeffy de Malomviz,born in 1727
I
Baron Gregor Inczédy de Nagy-Varad,died in 1816
I
Baroness Agnes Inczedy de Nagy Varad,lived from 1788-1856
I
Countess Claudine Rhedey de Kis-Rhede,lived from 1812-1841
I
Duke Franz von Teck,lived from 1837-1900
I
Princess Victoria Mary of Teck,lived from 1867-1953
I
King George VI of Great Britain,lived from 1895-1952
I
Elizabeth II,Queen of Great Britain,born in 1926
I
Charles,Prince of Wales,born in 1948
I
Prince William,the Duke of Cambridge,born in 1982
I
Prince "Name" of Cambridge,born in 2013
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  #209  
Old 07-23-2013, 12:36 PM
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In honor of the new King of the Belgians, here's the closest to the British throne of his multiple descents from George II. A bit surprised there's no Victoria or George III link.

1. George II of Great Britain (1683-1760)
2. Frederick, Prince of Wales (1707-1751)
3. Princess Augusta of Great Britain, Duchess of Brunswick (1737-1813)
4. Augusta, Princess of Wurttemberg (1764-1788)
5. Paul, Prince of Wurttemberg (1785-1852)
6. Pauline, Dutchess of Nassau (1810-1856)
7. Sophia, Queen of Sweden (1836-1913)
8. Prince Carl, Duke of Vastergotland (1861-1951)
9. Astrid, Queen of Belgium (1905-1935)
10. Albert II of Belgium (b. 1934)
11. Philippe of Belgium (b. 1960)

He's also in the Jacobite line, as a descendent of King Louis XV of France, who in turn was a great-grandson of Charles I of England's daughter, Henrietta, who married the Duke of Orleans.
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  #210  
Old 07-23-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
So, since the newest descendant of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert has been born today, I thought I might post my chart tracing the descendants of the pair of them.

http://sdrv.ms/133pRVZ
Excellent chart thank you
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  #211  
Old 07-23-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralcoffin View Post
In honor of the new King of the Belgians, here's the closest to the British throne of his multiple descents from George II. A bit surprised there's no Victoria or George III link..
The first King of the Belgians was Q Victorias uncle but that was through the coburg line.
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  #212  
Old 07-23-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearghas View Post
Excellent chart thank you
Thanks! I plan on eventually expanding it to the descendants of Sophie of Hanover.
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  #213  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearghas View Post
The first King of the Belgians was Q Victorias uncle but that was through the coburg line.
Ah, true and he was also married to her (earlier) cousin, Princess Charlotte (I recall him from Young Victoria). I was surprised neither the Belgian nor Dutch Royal Families weren't descended from her though, considering that the Scandinavian trio, Germany, Spain, even Romania among others descend from her.
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  #214  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dralcoffin View Post

Ah, true and he was also married to her (earlier) cousin, Princess Charlotte (I recall him from Young Victoria). I was surprised neither the Belgian nor Dutch Royal Families weren't descended from her though, considering that the Scandinavian trio, Germany, Spain, even Romania among others descend from her.
The RFs of Belgium, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, and the Netherlands are not descended from Victoria.
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  #215  
Old 07-24-2013, 03:02 AM
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The two contemporary monarchs, Queen Victoria and Christian IX of Denmark each have five descendants reigning at the moment.
QV has England, Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Spain
CIX has Denmark, Norway, England, Belgium and Luxembourg.
But in the next generation, CIX will overtake the numbers as the future King of Spain is also a descendant. Considerin that the royal families no longer intermarry I dont think either monarchs will gain any more thrones.
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  #216  
Old 07-24-2013, 03:25 AM
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You never know. They don't not intermarry, it's just no longer as popular. Given just how many descendants they each have it's highly possible that an individual descended from one but not a member of a reigning RF could marry into a reigning RF. Or, if some of the non-reigning thrones get restored one could overtake the other. For monarchs overall, reigning or non-reigning, I believe Victoria wins with 16 to Christian's 14.

Of course Johan Willsm Friso beats them both, being the most common ancestor of every reigning European RF plus a good number of the non-reigning ones (plus Brazil and, via adoption, Mexico). Granted he lived a few generations before Victoria and Christian.
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  #217  
Old 07-27-2013, 04:04 PM
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Beeing a Brazilian, I have read today a very interesting article about baby Pince George's ancestors who lived in Brazil:

Notcia Capital
Here is the translation:

“ George Alexander Louis of Cambridge

….

The newborn Prince is a direct descendant of the only daughter of Alexander Cunningham¹, her Majesty's British Consul in Bahia. Charlotte Cunningham married James Brownell Boothby, one of the most important members of the British community in Salvador. He was a partner of the second largest British company of the time in Bahia, Boothby Johnston & Co². The ceremony was held at the Consul’s residence in Salvador on August 1, 1816 in the presence of the witnesses, Captain Henry Dannison and Alexander John Heatherly. The marriage is quoted in “The British Community of 19th century Bahia: Public and Private Lives”³, interesting study of Louise Guenther.

The Cunningham-Boothby couple returned to England where a daughter, Elizabeth Caroline Boothby, Baroness Fermoy by marriage was born. She was Diana Frances Spencer, Princess of Wales’ great great grandmother.

Alexander Cunningham lived in Brazil until the death, which took place in Rio de Janeiro in April 13, 1832. He had an active role in combating slave trafficking in Brazil..

Charlotte Cunningham lived in UK the major part of her life – she was 93 when she died. She saw the birth of her great grandson Edmund Maurice Burke Roche – great grandfather of Prince George.


Charlotte Cunningham (Melcombe Regis, 06.11.1799 - Leamington, 22.01.1893)
(married in Bahia, Brazil, 1st August, 1816)
= James Brownell Boothby (Sheffield, 10.02.1791 - Twyferd Abbey, 28.10.1850)


Elizabeth Caroline Boothby (Everton Priory, 09.08.1821 - Torquay, 26.04.1897)
= Edmund Burke Roche (1815 - 1874) (1st Baron Fermoy)


James Boothby Burke Roche (Twyford Abbey, 28.07.1851 - Artillery Mansions, 30.10.1920) (3rd Baron Fermoy)
= Francis Ellen Work (1857 - 1947)


Edmund Maurice Burke Roche (Chelsea, 15.05.1885 - King's Lynn, 08.07.1955) (4rd Baron Fermoy)
= Ruth Sylvia Gill (1908 - 1993)


Frances Ruth Burke Roche (Sandringham, 20.01.1936-2004)
=(1) Edward John Spencer (1924 - 1992) (8th Earl Spencer)


Diana Frances Spencer (Park House, Sandringham, 01.07.1961 - Paris, 31.08.1997) (Princess of Wales)
= Charles Philip Arthur George (1948 - ) (Prince of Wales)


William Arthur Philip Louis (St. Mary's Hospital, 21.06.1982 - )
(Duke of Cambridge)
= Catherine Elizabeth Middleton (Reading, 09.01.1982 - )


Prince George Alexander Louis of Cambridge (St. Mary's Hospital, 22.07.2013 - )".



1 – I have found out on internet that he was also Chief Commissioner in Rio de Janeiro.
2 – See a 1842 extract from The London Gazette http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../2457/page.pdf
3 – Read the paper here http://www.lac.ox.ac.uk/sites/sias/f...Guenther32.pdf
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  #218  
Old 08-04-2013, 04:35 PM
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Or the House of Oldenburg,as S-H-S-G is one of it's lines
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  #219  
Old 08-04-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Homme View Post
Thank you Mark23, I am new at this but is the gist of the line correct and if not can you point out my mistakes.
The line is correct.

The debate is as to what House Baby George (and his father and grandfather) belong to.

Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp, which Prince Philip is a member of, is a cadet branch of the older House of Oldenburg. However, it has been said by Elizabeth II that her family belongs to the House of Windsor, which is traditionally the British cadet branch of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

The question here is whether Charles, William, George, etc are a part of the House of Windsor as a cadet branch of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, like the Queen, or if there are two Houses of Windsor - the Saxs-Coburg and Gotha Windsors who are male-line descendants of George V, and the Schleswig-Holstein-Gottorp Windsors, the male-line descendants of Prince Philip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homme View Post
By Royal decree the name of the royal house IS Windsor, but patrilineally the Royal House is Glucksburg and it's male-line descendants belong to the Royal House of Oldenburg/Glucksburg.
It's a bit more complicated than that.

Children typically take the house of their father, yes, so the Royal House is currently Windsor as a cadet branch of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Elizabeth II is the monarch, and she belongs to the house of her father, not her husband.

Elizabeth's royal degree stated that the House would remain Windsor, which brings up the debate of does Charles (and William, George, etc) belong to his mother's House or his father's House? When he is the monarch, will the Windsors be a cadet branch of S-C and G, or will they be a cadet branch of the Glucksburgs?
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  #220  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
When he is the monarch, will the Windsors be a cadet branch of S-C and G, or will they be a cadet branch of the Glucksburgs?
Elizabeth II is a member of the gens wettinensis by agnatic bloodline. Her House is a cadet branch of the Wettins (Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, since 1917 "Windsors"). Charles, his siblings and his offsprings are members of the Oldenburgs through his father Philipp von Griechenland.
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