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  #201  
Old 05-27-2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sirericbreheny View Post
Hi Ish, I wonder if I would have a stronger claim than most people replying here? I can trace my family roots of Genealogy right though The MacFergusson Clan of 4 Step Clans, the O'Donellys, MacDarmaids, of course MacFergussons and MacBreheny's.

I can also trace my roots (I was a member of Ancestry.com untill I could not get anymore information on that website) through King William 1st The Great, you see some of my ancestors were Knights that he asked to come with him on his Conquest of Britain, there is a plaque on the wall of a specific church in France that records the names of the Norman Knights that went with King William The Great, 2 of my ancestors though they were from Britain at the time went and helped King William The Great, their names are recorded on that plaque and mentioned in British records in certain archives as well as the Domesday Books. Does this qualifly me to make a claim to Queen Elizabeth 2nds Throne? I also suspect Queen Elizabeth 2nd is also very much aware of my connections as being one of her legal cousins.
From what I've pieced together in what you've said here and elsewhere on TRF, you're claiming that you can trace your ancestry back to William the Conqueror, that your family was potentially closely related to James I, but were Puritans and thus left England and settled in Plymouth in 1620. Through this connection you believe that you have a claim to the British throne and deserve an apology from Elizabeth II for what happened to your family under James I. Am I correct?

If your familial relationship with Elizabeth II is no closer than the fact that you're descended from a relation of James I, then you're not a legal cousin or close enough of a relation for her to be aware of your connections. There are some 5,00-6,000 living people who descend from Sophia of Hanover, and as such are "cousins" of the Queen, and I really doubt she's aware of most of them.

Even without the Act of Settlement, which puts forth only the descendants of Sophia of Hanover, of whom Elizabeth II is the senior most descendant under male-preferred primogeniture, you don't have a claim to the throne.

James I was the senior most claimant to the throne of Scotland. Once again, according to male-preferred primogeniture, he was the senior most descendant of Robert I, whose rule was cemented by his conquest of Scotland. James I was also the senior most claimant to the throne of England; he was the closest relation of Elizabeth I, he was the senior most living descendant of Henry VII, who himself was both the Lancastrian heir and a conqueror of England, and he was the senior most living descendant of Edward IV, making him the senior most living descendant of both claims from the War of the Roses. The only people who could potentially claim to have a better claim to either throne than James would have to have gone back more than 100 years to claim to be a descendant from Edward IV's younger brother George (for the English throne), or 300 years to claim to be a descendant from one of the other claimants in the Scottish Wars of Independence - both claims which would ignore the fact that James I was descended from the winners of these wars.

As such the only people who could have any kind of claim to the throne of Britain would be descendants of James I, of which there are many. Any one who is a descendant from an earlier monarch has no claim because James I himself was the senior most descendant in his time, making all of his descendants more senior than any descendants of any of his cousins.

In reality, there are at most 2 people who could be considered to have a valid claim to the throne of Britain; Elizabeth II who is the senior most descendant of Sophia of Hanover, who was selected by Parliament to be the legitimate, lawful heir to the throne, and Franz of Bavaria, who is the senior most descendant of James I, but whose ancestors were deposed from ruling by Parliament on the grounds of being unfit to rule.

Unless you are either Elizabeth II or Franz of Bavaria, you have no claim.
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  #202  
Old 05-27-2014, 05:36 PM
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Well put Ish
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  #203  
Old 05-27-2014, 08:50 PM
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Ish, I have gone back 1900 years and cannot go back any further unless certain British Archives want to open their books to me, I AM A PILGRIM OR THE PILGRIM Heir of William BREWSTER THE 3RD. So how much weight does that carry, it was Queen Elizabeth 1st and King JAMES IV that sent my family fleeing, THIS IS HISTORICALLY PROVEN as fact, if one wants to challenge me then QE2 can send me the money and an invitation to come to Edenburgh Castle to talk to her. If Not then I will still tell the truth; I am the only one that can make these claims that I am direct Cousin to QE2 and make them as official as they can get. I also think QE2 has been keeping track of the Brewsters in Nova Scotia, Canada; so why have I not been contacted by her, oddly my father got an document from her long ago about some sort of Jubilee but we did not keep the document and were puzzled why it was sent to us from HER ROYAL MAJESTY.

That is interesting, a number of my ancestors were born near Nottinghamshire, they for the most part were Brewers and very influential before the British recorded their names as Brewsters....that is straight fact. Some were known as Bohuns and Brehons as well, one Bohun was the Sheriff Of Nottingham as my genealogy searches turned up the name, so is Noble Cousins good enough for people, one has to be allowed a position such as Sheriff Of Nottingham by an Royal Family member whom is king or queen at that time. This would be between the 10th to the 11th Century.

That is funny, my ancestor was mentioned in the Pipe Roll #12 I think it was on the Domesday Books, right next to William Stutely, an William Briwere, that is real fact. So how more noble does my family need to be than this? William Brewer was apparently an landowner, William Stutely AKA was a cousin of Robin Hoes-Hode-Hughes. A town in England at the time was called Stukely, so one can assume that William Stutely dropped a few letters in his last name when the Census was recorded. Since I specialize in the Brewster Family and was an member of ancestry.com then such things I am very much aware of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astartiel View Post
...I discovered there was an ancestor who was supposedly descended, twice out of wedlock, to King Charles II Stuart...it is a fun bit of family trivia.
I would agree Astartiel, while it is fun finding out there is some royal blood in your veins it is a quite a serious thing when your ancestors were chased out of Britain and you can prove it but few take it seriously even those that should take it very seriously.

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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
You can get a swab DNA test from at least one major genealogy site that I know of and go from there...
Sady, they protect their DNA Closely, Mermaid1962....if you got a little bit of theirs some of their security might look at you being some nutjob terrorist and they would not want that would they? So their protection is a full time job unless your invited to some event that you could collect their DNA and have it legally tested.

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Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
Then, if Parliament made the law (about Electress Sophie), they could obviously change it!
Princess Kaimi, most definately but I doubt if they will change that legislation any time soon, do you think they themselves will actually want to name a new Queen or King to the Throne Of Britain even if they tossed out the Hanoverian Succession Rule-Statute? The German Government currently in power and the British Parliment that is currently elected would have to get together and have to agree to change that law that was established. But I doubt seriously if either would.
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  #204  
Old 05-27-2014, 10:35 PM
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What does the German government have to do with the British monarch?
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  #205  
Old 05-27-2014, 11:21 PM
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Some records I read during the last year or two state that Edgar Aetheling had a child through a marriage in England (forget to whom) and the child, Margaret (probably named for his sister) married as her second husband Thomas de Londonis. Thomas de Londonis was the supposed father of Eschyna de Molle, who married first Sir Robert Croce of Renfewshire and then Walter Fitzallen of Renfrewshire, the first High Steward of Scotland. Eschyna de Molle is listed in some places as daughter of Thomas de Londonis, other places as his wife...possibly both ladies had this name. However, her true father may have been Uchtred de Molle, who married Margaret, daughter of Edgar Aetheling as her first husband.

If this last is true, since I am descended from Eschyna de Molle (presumably the Younger) then I am descended from Edgar Aetheling. Two scholarly sources stated this to be the case when I was rambling about trying to find Eschyna's forebears. The men who stated that Edgar Aetheling had a marriage and a legitimate daughter were respected scholars, but probably in the minority on this issue. I have given up my pursuit of this subject, but this is what I remember of it.

I am just fine with being the grandaughter of the remarkable Eschyna and Sir Robert Croce, her first husband, who gave birth to my ancestor Isabel Croce Pollock, married to Robert Pollock, her immediate neighbor in Renfrewshire. Eschyna had no idea she was going to be the foremother of the Stewart clan. She had ten children by at least three husbands, must have been tough, and is variously reported as having lived to 100 or 90, and dying in Owestry Castle in England.

ETA...I need to add some further research I did do this week. I found the site which discusses the probable existence of Margaret, daughter of Edgar Aetheling, who would have been a direct male line descendant of King Edmond Ironside.

I read the information in more detail, even doing pretty well with the Latin records, which did surprise me my mentioning my ancestor "Robertus de Pollock".

It seems that Utrecht de Molle was the grandfather, not the father, of that Eschyna de Molle who married first Sir Robert Croce (my ancestor) and subsequently married Walter Fitzallen, the first High Steward. So the line seems intact but, as often is the case, generations shift. I will have to continue looking at what is the right name for this Eschyna's mother, the daughter of Margaret Aetheling Lovell de Molle. I believe she was also an Eschyna but I will have to work on it some more. I am more convinced than I was that this story has legs.
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  #206  
Old 06-01-2014, 06:50 PM
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I'm a Pollock Descendant, but I only gotten as far as William Wilson Pollock born 1723 in Ulster who married Mary Torrey. I have John Pollock for William Wilson Pollock's father, but nothing further. Artist Jackson Pollock is my cousin.
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  #207  
Old 06-22-2014, 12:54 PM
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A friend says she is descended from English royalty - descended from the Earl of Harwood. Not Harewood, but Harwood - anyone know of this family?
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  #208  
Old 06-22-2014, 01:08 PM
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There seems to be no results on the Peerage or Wikipedia, although the Peerage does make reference to a Baron of Harwood, which is a subsidiary of the Earl of Harewood.

Perhaps check Burke's Peerage?
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  #209  
Old 06-22-2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
A friend says she is descended from English royalty - descended from the Earl of Harwood. Not Harewood, but Harwood - anyone know of this family?
Here is a very interesting link about the history of the Harwood family:

http://www.harwoodhistory.com/The%20...troduction.pdf
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  #210  
Old 06-23-2014, 05:09 PM
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I think we can accept the information about Earl Of Harwood as fact. As I can about my ancestors, one Bohun was an Earl himself and one of his sons was Sherriff of Nottingham; it is amazing what "commoners" could accomplish back in those days. It is a pitty that one cannot regain such titles these days since they were swept away by the nasty business that the Lord Of Skye problems of 1701AD swept under the rug and the QE2 is the only royality that counts, sadly the Dalriata-Alba TriKingship should count for something but does not and has not for 1,800 years. I am hoping I can get some recognition from Clan Donald in the USA as well as being a member of Clan MacDonald in the Annapolis Valley, Kings County, Nova Scotia, Canada since I sent apps forms to Clan Donald and they seem to want to accept me.

Telling others about the legacy of the Breheny-Brewer-Brewster Family is a good thing to do since I have done all that hard Genealogy work for 32years of my life, NOR IS IT A LIE, as some would wish to believe for my ancestors lived and had their own place in British, Canadian and American History and should be remembered.
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  #211  
Old 06-23-2014, 05:16 PM
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It has a lot to do with the Royals, QE2 is mostly a German Royal of the Hanoverian Breeding. There was a big scare during WW2 and questions raised about the British Monarchy why they had some German Bloodlines which was rightly asked, however alot of questions equally quickly put down just as fast.
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  #212  
Old 06-23-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sirericbreheny View Post
I think we can accept the information about Earl Of Harwood as fact. As I can about my ancestors, one Bohun was an Earl himself and one of his sons was Sherriff of Nottingham; it is amazing what "commoners" could accomplish back in those days. It is a pitty that one cannot regain such titles these days since they were swept away by the nasty business that the Lord Of Skye problems of 1701AD swept under the rug and the QE2 is the only royality that counts, sadly the Dalriata-Alba TriKingship should count for something but does not hand has not for 1,800 years.
They do count as a rich and colorful history of how changes came to be. In ancient Egypt with its divine Pharoahs, there was a custom of pharaonic marriage where to preserve the bloodline of divine power, brothers married their sisters. We would definitely not want to see that revived in this day and age.
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  #213  
Old 06-23-2014, 05:32 PM
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Mariel, yes that is often the case as the Descendants did shift through many many marriages that makes them almost unrecognizable as I found out; I read the Domesday Books Rolls which were a challenge since they were in old English and Latin; but what I did find out that my ancestors were nobles and cousins of the Norman Kings and Queens and atleast one knowing Robin Hughes Earl Of Huntingdon.....now why would I not say Robin Hood? For the simple reason that Robin's real name has been obscured for a long time and the town of Lockington, England exists so Robert Lord Of Locksley had to have existed to produce Robin Earl Of Huntingdon, both had the last name of Hughes and disguised it to keep their town and holdings as safe as possible. I would like to point out it was a common practice then.
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  #214  
Old 06-23-2014, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sirericbreheny View Post
It has a lot to do with the Royals, QE2 is mostly a German Royal of the Hanoverian Breeding. There was a big scare during WW2 and questions raised about the British Monarchy why they had some German Bloodlines which was rightly asked, however alot of questions equally quickly put down just as fast.
Well,genealogically speaking,future monarch,Prince Charles represents the blood union between the Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha and Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg dynasties...and this Prince Chales has a son,who has a son,so the German blood will be reigning in Britain a bit longer...

But,English laws brought Germans to Britain...Well,even before Hanoverians,Queen Anne was married to the Danish Prince from an Oldenburg dynasty(same German family as of Prince Philipp which ruled in Demark),while her sister was married to King William III who,although with the title Prince of Orange was a member of again German dynasty,von Nassau-Dillenburg...
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  #215  
Old 06-29-2014, 04:40 PM
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If Queen Victoria is my cousin am I also queen Elizabeth's cousin?


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  #216  
Old 06-29-2014, 04:48 PM
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Queen Elizabeth is Queen Victoria's great great granddaughter, so that could make you her third cousin.
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  #217  
Old 06-29-2014, 04:54 PM
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My grandfathers mother was related to a German General who was queen Victorias cousin. I really wish I had all the paperwork. My aunt worked for the us immigration service and she did research on all of our family and has paperwork to prove we're related. I just don't know all the exact details.


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  #218  
Old 06-29-2014, 05:44 PM
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But if you don't have all the details, it's hard to tell exactly how you're related to Queen Elizabeth. What I do know though is that many people, who don't have a royal title, are in the succession to the British throne. To be in that succession, you have to...
1: ... be a descendant of Sophia, electress of Hanover, who lived between 1630 and 1714. (She never became a queen of the United Kingdom, but her son became king George I).
2: ... not be a Roman Catholic (and until 2013, you would also lose your place in the succession if you got married to a Roman Catholic).
3: ... be born within wedlock.

But that still leaves thousands of possible claimants to the British throne, even if most of them are very unlikely to make such a claim for various reasons.
1: Even if the succession would be excluded to the descendants of king George V, that leaves us with fiftytwo people. It's hard to imagine such a situation, where there would be none of them to take the throne.
2: Many of the possible claimants are members of other royal houses, so they would already have duties in other countries than the United Kingdom.
3: Yet others haven't even been raised as royals, and many of these would be unprepared to become a king or queen.
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  #219  
Old 06-29-2014, 06:14 PM
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Well my grandparents have the paper work. All I am certain is that my grandfathers parents were close cousins to the queen. However I haven't seen my grandparents In a while so I haven't gotten copies of the paperwork yet. I know that Charlemagne is my grandfather and that I am a direct descendant of him. I am planning to write the queen and send in the paperwork proving my families relation to her.


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  #220  
Old 06-29-2014, 06:18 PM
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And I know for certain I am cousins to Queen Victoria


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