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  #261  
Old 01-12-2006, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxie
And here's a better one, from ALP and originally posted by Mandy in the wedding thread of Bernhard and Annette, which can be found here


The fabric is weird too, it looks like it has to be ironed...
Such a shame, because she seems to be such a lovely person!
yeah I agree. the fabric is so stiff. it doesnt help. i think the design is not very good. with the column skirt underneath the wider round one. if the underskirt were not so straight and tight the whole thing would move better.
the upperhalf of the dress is nice though.
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  #262  
Old 01-12-2006, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyemma
the upperhalf of the dress is nice though.
Yes, the neck line is actually quite nice, it really seems to fit Annette's sweet disposition... :)
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  #263  
Old 01-13-2006, 08:48 PM
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I went to the Princess Diana exhibit today. It is showing in Houston until Febrruary 5. It is hard to describe the wedding dress. It looks better to me in photographs. It is also hard to believe that such an important wedding had such an understated dress. It is very plain. The lace is beautiful but seems too narrow for the length of the train. It has some sparkle from the irricescent sequins sewn on the lace. Some are also sewn on the veil. But the sparkle wasn't enough to really make a showing.

It seems most everyone dislikes the dress. I read somewhere - don't know if it is true or not - that the designers fashioned the dress after Cinderella. That might be an urban rumor, but the dress does look like the one in Disney. I think she should have used more seasoned designers. She was very young and very in love when she chose the dress, and I think the design shows her young romantic taste at the time. One of the early dresses in the exhibit showed this same quality, the ruffles, bows, etc.
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  #264  
Old 01-13-2006, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by almab
She was very young and very in love when she chose the dress, and I think the design shows her young romantic taste at the time. One of the early dresses in the exhibit showed this same quality, the ruffles, bows, etc.
My apologies for the editing, Alma. I guess the did have a Cinderella quality to it -- I was 11 when Diana got married and I thought it was just exquisite. I saw right past the puff sleeves, the wrinkles, etc. Today, well, it's not my taste but it fit right in with the very early 80's and set the "more is more" trend that highlighted fashion, especially bridal dresses, at that time. Thank goodness, Vera Wang came along. I don't think there was a lot of sequins on the dress b/c it was a morning wedding...you'd probably want to steer away from glitz.

My biggest disappointment was Jackie Kennedy's wedding gown...it was fine from the waist up but I still have no idea what anyone was thinking with those god awful, enormous lace flowers on the skirt. It's so bad, you rarely see photos of it. I know a lot of time and energy and material went into it, but for a woman with such impeccable taste, it boggles the mind.
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  #265  
Old 01-13-2006, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almab
I went to the Princess Diana exhibit today. It is showing in Houston until Febrruary 5. It is hard to describe the wedding dress. It looks better to me in photographs. It is also hard to believe that such an important wedding had such an understated dress. It is very plain. The lace is beautiful but seems too narrow for the length of the train. It has some sparkle from the irricescent sequins sewn on the lace. Some are also sewn on the veil. But the sparkle wasn't enough to really make a showing.
I believe you when you say it looks better in photographs. Even back in the eighties on her wedding day, watching it on tv as a ten year old, I thought it was just a <terrible> dress. Although I'm not sure I follow when you say it's "plain". I take it you mean that the fabric seemed a bit dull for some reason? I would agree with you on that! Also, I think what made the dress look acceptable at all was the fact it was worn by a girl with amazing charisma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by almab
It seems most everyone dislikes the dress. I read somewhere - don't know if it is true or not - that the designers fashioned the dress after Cinderella. That might be an urban rumor, but the dress does look like the one in Disney.
wow, never thought about it that way, but you are right, there's an uncanny resemblance!


Quote:
Originally Posted by almab
I think she should have used more seasoned designers.
I agree in this particular case, as I've never really agreed with most designs the Emmanuels did.
But on the other hand, some indeed more seasoned designers have from time to time turned out equally terrible royal bridal gowns. (Even if they're off the hook because they lean too much to what the ignorant royal bride desperately wants)

Cases in point:

Valentino: yes he designed that gorgeous dress for Maxima, but remember, he also was responsible for Marie Chantal's hodge-podge, "yes-we're-trying-to-channel-grace-kelly-here"-over the top gown..

Marc Bohan of Dior for Silvia of Sweden: let's not forget that at the time, in 1976, when Silvia commissioned the dress, Marc Bohan was <the> designer in haute couture/fashion land. He was the Karl Lagerfeld and Tom Ford of his day combined. And yet this mediocre-at-best dress.

Victor and Rolf for Mabel. Certainly, in 2003 V and R were already well-respected designers in the most snobby of PAris couture circles. And the dress could've been one of the best ever, if it wasn't for the fact they are said to have listened to Mabel a bit too much who insisted on that ocean of bows. (or they are just cowards who unfairly blamed that bow-fest on innocent Mabel)

Frans Molenaar. This Dutch designer had a virtual monopoly in the Netherlands regarding designing for the upper class set in that country. And then he made Annette's dress....what a disappointment!

So even a well-known designer is not always the best bet. It is a tricky thing for these royal brides. Because they have the financial means and the incentive to have a truly original bridal gown (as in, couture), they basically commision and decide on, a sketch made by the designer based on his views and the bride's wishes.
What you then often get is that the gown that looked so incredible on a sketch, is a less than stellar thing in real life once it's all said and done. In my opinion, MAry of Denmark's dress is such an example. Stellar designer, great great sketch of her gown. But then once it was actually sewn together, in my opinion the result was just less than excellent...or in any case it in my opinion didn't compare in gloriousness to the sketch!
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  #266  
Old 01-13-2006, 10:20 PM
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I agree with princess olga, for example Infanta Cristina chose an almost unkown Spanish designer (at the time) called Lorenzo Caprile instead of a bigger name and the results were awesome, the wedding dress was incredible because he knew her so he could channel her personality and make the best dress for her; the mistake that many commit is that "I'm gonna dress by Dior or Armani" and sometimes the designer's style is not what suits that person best even if is beautiful and carefully tailored; your wedding dress should be done in a special way not one more of many of the same style
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  #267  
Old 01-14-2006, 09:42 AM
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I enjoyed all of the comments. You are right Princess Olga - it isn't so much about seasoned designers but using a designer who knows the person ...
I also agree that Diana's charisma is what carried the whole thing off. At the time, and still do, thought the bridesmaids dresses were prettier than Diana's.

And Jackie Kennedy's dress was pretty gruesome, too. I believe she wanted a more contemporary design but bowed to her husband's desire for a traditional dress? I read that somewhere - there are so many stories out there that I always have some doubt about whatever is in print.
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  #268  
Old 01-14-2006, 10:16 AM
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Diana's dress was the result of an up and coming design team that wanted to make a statement with the world watching. The wedding was very good publicity for them.

Diana was young and didn't have a lot of say over a lot of the wedding proceedings so its understandable that she wanted to make her own statement with her dress.

But the dress was very unflattering to her body type. She was tall and big and there was too much girly tissue looking fabric around her. Later she favored more simple cuts.

I've only seen Jackie's dress from the waist up so it looked fine to me. Mary's dress, I thought, was perfect for her body type. It accented the straight lines of her figure without being too severe. I think the headdress carried it off. It was very unusual yet very flattering to her face.
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  #269  
Old 01-15-2006, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga

Victor and Rolf for Mabel. Certainly, in 2003 V and R were already well-respected designers in the most snobby of PAris couture circles. And the dress could've been one of the best ever, if it wasn't for the fact they are said to have listened to Mabel a bit too much who insisted on that ocean of bows. (or they are just cowards who unfairly blamed that bow-fest on innocent Mabel)

Frans Molenaar. This Dutch designer had a virtual monopoly in the Netherlands regarding designing for the upper class set in that country. And then he made Annette's dress....what a disappointment!
I actually had a (short) chat with Viktor -a strange man btw- some time ago and he told me it was Mabel idea to make it more extravagant & with the big bows. Maybe she thought of the motto 'dress to impress', which she certainly did. (I know it is bad tatse to go namesdropping, but I swear it is the only one who approaches 'famous' that I talked to in my life ).

Frans Molenaar was a disappointment indeed. It seemed he tried to make a bad copy of Marilene's dress, mixed with some other things. Wasn't Margriets outfit at the wedding of WA and Maxima created by him as well?

Do you know where Marilene got her dress from? I remember it was made in Brussels, but I do not know the designer.
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  #270  
Old 01-16-2006, 08:46 AM
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Looking at Letizia's dress....I can understand why some people find fault with it. The collar did it for me..but I think the designer used historical context when making the dress. If you look at pics of old Spanish princess (think Katherine of Aragon) that style was big back in the 16th century. I also think that the bridesmaid dresses (which I also didn't like) had the same theme as well.
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  #271  
Old 01-16-2006, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Looking at Letizia's dress....I can understand why some people find fault with it. The collar did it for me..but I think the designer used historical context when making the dress. If you look at pics of old Spanish princess (think Katherine of Aragon) that style was big back in the 16th century. I also think that the bridesmaid dresses (which I also didn't like) had the same theme as well.
exactly! thats what i loved about it too. i thought it was wonderful that she went for a historcal motif.
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  #272  
Old 01-16-2006, 08:51 AM
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I like the historical motif. Some people can't stand it. Both Mary's and Letizia's dress had a bit of that going on and I thought it was lovely.

Jane Seymour used to wear these lovely medieval-style dresses to Hollywood premieres and looked stunning in them but the fashion mavens tore her apart and she stopped wearing them.
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  #273  
Old 01-16-2006, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almab
I went to the Princess Diana exhibit today. It is showing in Houston until Febrruary 5. It is hard to describe the wedding dress. It looks better to me in photographs. It is also hard to believe that such an important wedding had such an understated dress. It is very plain. The lace is beautiful but seems too narrow for the length of the train. It has some sparkle from the irricescent sequins sewn on the lace. Some are also sewn on the veil. But the sparkle wasn't enough to really make a showing.

It seems most everyone dislikes the dress. I read somewhere - don't know if it is true or not - that the designers fashioned the dress after Cinderella. That might be an urban rumor, but the dress does look like the one in Disney. I think she should have used more seasoned designers. She was very young and very in love when she chose the dress, and I think the design shows her young romantic taste at the time. One of the early dresses in the exhibit showed this same quality, the ruffles, bows, etc.
I don't like Diana's dress as well, it's not something I would wear for my big day anyway. However i think that in 1981 it was quite stylish and suited the occassion. She looked lovely in it, like a Cinderella, yes, but that's what she was thought to be at time. I think she would look lovely in any dress. And frankly, can you imagine how much our children will be laughing at the dresses we now think are beautiful?
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  #274  
Old 01-16-2006, 09:02 AM
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Avalon...My thoughts exactly. Back in 81 I thought Diana's dress was stunning. Now I think its okay...cause is says 80's :)

When one of my girlfriends was shopping for a wedding dress, she was choosing between a strapless dress (she has great arms) or a dress that had purple beading in the back (a tribute to her husband's fraternity..it looked better than it sounds). My comment...go with the strapless dress..you want something twenty years from now that says..timeless and classic. You don't want to date your wedding year :)
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  #275  
Old 01-17-2006, 06:37 PM
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I think we have to be compassive with all those Royal women who got married in the *shudders* 80's because that decade was disastrous for fashion in every possible way, so the designers went for the "cool and update" thing and the results were... well... you already know:o

As for Mabel's dress there's NO possible excuse for that woman's lack of judgement and fashion sense, if you are educated, if you want to look beautiful PLEASE do not use 10^n bows in your dress
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  #276  
Old 01-17-2006, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
I actually had a (short) chat with Viktor -a strange man btw- some time ago and he told me it was Mabel idea to make it more extravagant & with the big bows. Maybe she thought of the motto 'dress to impress', which she certainly did. (I know it is bad tatse to go namesdropping, but I swear it is the only one who approaches 'famous' that I talked to in my life ).
Ah, that's right, you actually mentioned that, if I'm correct, in a different thread (probably the Mabel thread!

Would love to know more about your exchange about this very topic with the big V. himself! First of, thanks from all of us for asking the question you did!! I'm serious! :)

Also, if you remember at all from your encounter with V., did you get the impression from him that post-wedding, Victor and Rolf received a lot of flak from everyone for allowing Mabel to get away with all those bows? I have to say I get the impression from your conversation with him that at least the V. of this renowned designer duo seems <very> keen on setting the record straight on who was really responsible for those ghastly bows.

What I'm wondering also is, Couldn't V and R have tried a bit harder to talk Mabel out of those bows? If I'd been the designer, I know <I> would have! Of course, knowing what we know about Mabel, if anything, she's a determined lady..the impression I have of her is that once she's made up her mind about anything (Soros foundation, Friso, Bows, whatever) it will be impossible to persuade her to change her mind!

I hope you assured V. that in any case the dress itself was just exquisite, and a wonderful design (sans bows of course)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Frans Molenaar was a disappointment indeed. It seemed he tried to make a bad copy of Marilene's dress, mixed with some other things. Wasn't Margriets outfit at the wedding of WA and Maxima created by him as well?

Do you know where Marilene got her dress from? I remember it was made in Brussels, but I do not know the designer.
I haven't the faintest who designed Marilene's dress, but I really doubt it would be Natan. After all, Natan was responsible for Laurentien's as well as Mathilde's wedding gowns. And even though Mathilde's gown resembled, design-wise, Marilene's dress a bit, Mathilde's seemed much more high-quality for some reason.

And don't get me started on Frans Molenaar's ill-fated attempt to channel Marilene's dress for poor Annette. It's strange, too, since he's had the reputation of an obsessed perfectionist. I'd expected more from him. Seems that clearly, what must have happened here is that he outsourced the whole thing to a bunch of under-paid, overworked, under-appreciated seamstresses working under inhumane circumstances in some humid, dimly-lit, badly airconditioned factory...
Actually let me take that back: even under-paid factory workers in one emerging economy or other would have done a better job...blind. (Sorry, Annette, we love you! Just not your wedding-dress!)
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  #277  
Old 01-17-2006, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Avalon...My thoughts exactly. Back in 81 I thought Diana's dress was stunning. Now I think its okay...cause is says 80's :)

When one of my girlfriends was shopping for a wedding dress, she was choosing between a strapless dress (she has great arms) or a dress that had purple beading in the back (a tribute to her husband's fraternity..it looked better than it sounds). My comment...go with the strapless dress..you want something twenty years from now that says..timeless and classic. You don't want to date your wedding year :)
I agree strapless is typically a great way to go, but perhaps a tad too debutante-ish for those church-bound royal brides. I'm intrigued though by the dress with the purple beading you mentioned: I'm a bit off topic here I think, because we're talking not-so-great wedding gown designs/brides, whereas the purple beading idea sounds very fitting for a royal bride to me!
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  #278  
Old 01-17-2006, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by crisiñaki
I think we have to be compassive with all those Royal women who got married in the *shudders* 80's because that decade was disastrous for fashion in every possible way, so the designers went for the "cool and update" thing and the results were... well... you already know:o

As for Mabel's dress there's NO possible excuse for that woman's lack of judgement and fashion sense, if you are educated, if you want to look beautiful PLEASE do not use 10^n bows in your dress
You know what, I think the designers, Victor and Rolf, also deserve some responsibility for the bow-disaster. I mean, How could they have agreed to have her walk down the isle like that?! Marengo had a chat with them (with Victor) and I get the impression V. (and R.?) are trying to wash their hands clean of the whole bow-affair, not a very gentleman-ly thing to do, in my opinion, even if it's all Mabel's doing in the end. I wonder if V. is perhaps going around talking down on Mabel's bows because it did some damage to V and R's reputation? That they are trying to tone down their part in the whole thing?

Not sure what I would have done if Mabel would have come to me for her wedding gown design and <insisted> on those bows. Would I have refused the whole project? Would I, instead, have executed whatever it was that she wanted, as V and R seem to have done?
I think I would have secretly called Queen beatrix's office with a cry for an intervention from her Majesty !
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:21 PM
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Mabel just wore a bunch of bows - she didn't murder a baby.

I think the bow wedding dress reflects more badly on the designer than Mabel. A woman chooses a wedding dress once, wears it only once, and then packs it up. But a designer makes wedding dresses for many women and many weddings. You would expect a designer to know more about what makes a wedding dress look special than a bride who's never been wedding dress shopping before.

If the designers tried to distance themselves, its probably just a career saving move lest new brides think all their wedding dresses have that many bows.
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Old 01-17-2006, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel
I think the bow wedding dress reflects more badly on the designer than Mabel. A woman chooses a wedding dress once, wears it only once, and then packs it up. But a designer makes wedding dresses for many women and many weddings. You would expect a designer to know more about what makes a wedding dress look special than a bride who's never been wedding dress shopping before.

If the designers tried to distance themselves, its probably just a career saving move lest new brides think all their wedding dresses have that many bows.
I agree with ysbel...often designers have a once in a lifetime opportunity when they get to design a society/royal wedding gown and they are trying to do something "different" or they are trying to capture a particular idea rather than thinking about the woman who will be wearing the dress. Thus you end up with Mabel's infamous bow incident or Diana's fractured fairy tale. Definitely two cases where the dress wore the woman and not the other way around.

Have to admit though...this is a TOUGH crowd. Have me thinking twice about what I'm wearing to a black tie fundraiser in a couple of weeks...
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