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  #41  
Old 07-20-2014, 03:46 PM
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Then Prince Abdullah met Rania at a dinner party. They were engaged a few months after the initial meeting.
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  #42  
Old 07-20-2014, 04:34 PM
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Does someone kmow where K.Philippe met Q.Mathilde? At the time of the engagement some people said it was an arranged marriage.
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:52 PM
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Does someone kmow where K.Philippe met Q.Mathilde? At the time of the engagement some people said it was an arranged marriage.
According to the book "Kroongeheimen" there were 2 versions of this at the time of the engagement:
- Filip himself said that he met her at a party and went up to her and talked
- a relative of Mathilde said that K.Albert and Q.Paolo got some friends of their's to establish a tennisclub of some people with whom P.Filip could socialize (tennis and other activities) and Mathilde was one of the people in the club..

So imo a really 'arranged marriage' wasn't the case, but maybe some arranged social circles from which 'things' developed naturally

Not sure how reliable the book is though...
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  #44  
Old 07-21-2014, 08:14 AM
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According to the book "Kroongeheimen" there were 2 versions of this at the time of the engagement:
- Filip himself said that he met her at a party and went up to her and talked
- a relative of Mathilde said that K.Albert and Q.Paolo got some friends of their's to establish a tennisclub of some people with whom P.Filip could socialize (tennis and other activities) and Mathilde was one of the people in the club..

So imo a really 'arranged marriage' wasn't the case, but maybe some arranged social circles from which 'things' developed naturally

Not sure how reliable the book is though...
Thanks. At this time they said it was arranged, because before the engagement their relationship was quite unknown by the public. Never mind, arranged or not, I think they make a lovely and successful couple.
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  #45  
Old 07-21-2014, 01:14 PM
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Thanks. At this time they said it was arranged, because before the engagement their relationship was quite unknown by the public. Never mind, arranged or not, I think they make a lovely and successful couple.
I agree, he seems a lot more confident these days and imo that has a lot to do with her
If someone did arrange it, that someone had a really good 'eye' for it (can i hire that someone to arrange something for me )
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:18 PM
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Princess Eleonora of Brazil met Prince Michel of Ligne in 1980, whe she was living in Germany, with her uncle and aunt, Prince Ludwig and Princess Irmingard of Bavaria. They married in Rio de Janeiro on March 10, 1981.

While working in Germany and visiting his sister, Prince Antonio of Brazil met his future brother-in-law's sister, Princess Christine of Ligne. They married on September 26, 1981, in Belgium.
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:54 PM
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IF Philippe and Mathilde's was a so-called arranged union, it's a great argument in favor of arranged marriages, imo. They are one of the best Royal couples...completely in sync, crazy about one another and their children, flawless in the way they carry out their public responsibilities.
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:09 PM
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Thanks. At this time they said it was arranged, because before the engagement their relationship was quite unknown by the public. Never mind, arranged or not, I think they make a lovely and successful couple.
Was that not also the case with Felipe and Letizia? For me their engagement came out of the blue, but I don't follow them so I can be wrong.

About Philippe and Mathilde - I have read that they met at a tennis club that is especially for girls belonging to the nobility. So perhaps both versions as stated by Lee-Z can be woven together - double truth .
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  #49  
Old 07-22-2014, 01:46 AM
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Yes, Skippy...Felipe and Letizia's engagement was quite out-of-the-blue..it took most everyone completely by surprise.

But an arranged marriage is only suspected if the bride is not a commoner. Go figure!
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  #50  
Old 07-23-2014, 06:01 AM
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Was that not also the case with Felipe and Letizia? For me their engagement came out of the blue, but I don't follow them so I can be wrong.

.
F+L came "out of the blue" , because they kept their relation fully secret. Felipe's previous girlfriends (Isabel Sartorius, Eva Sannum) have extremely suffered of the paparazzis, so Felipe when he broke with Eva, "made the oath" to protect the next one, and so did with Letizia, who was fully uknown+ protected, and she became immediately known as the official fiance + moved to Zarzuela, so untouchable.
But it was really not an arranged marriage.
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  #51  
Old 07-23-2014, 06:24 AM
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How met Andrew + Sarah, Anne + Mark, Anne + Timothy and Edward + Sophie?
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  #52  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:06 AM
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Sophie met Edward through her PR work.
Tim worked for the Royal Family.
Anne & Mark met through their shared interest in horses.
Sarah knew Andrew since childhood through her father.
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  #53  
Old 07-18-2015, 05:28 PM
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Just i discovered that really interesting thread. But i do not see how they met the Spanish Infantas and Martha-Luise with the future (and ex) husbands know anyone?
Also if a was actually arranged the marriage of Philip and Mathilde what to say let more frequently such marriages. I have only a request , can i meet the matchmaker?
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  #54  
Old 07-18-2015, 09:38 PM
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Philippe and Mathilde met at a tennis tournament. People assumed it was arranged because it was-on paper-such a suitable match. The bride was lovely, well-educated and from an impeccable aristocratic background.

And it was a courtship conducted privately and out of the view of press and public.

The same assumptions were made about Guillaume of Luxembourg and Stephanie de Lannoy for the exact same reasons.

Felipe/Letizia are a happy couple, but there is no way that Zarzuela or the SRF would have "arranged" such an unconventional Royal bride for the Prince of Asturias.
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  #55  
Old 07-19-2015, 02:14 AM
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Where did Victoria of Sweden meet Daniel (switching the sexes for a minute)? I know he was her personal trainer but was he called to the Palace to formulate an exercise programme for her or did she pop into his gym? And does anyone know how Madeleine met Chris O'Neill?

It's funny, but right up until the First World War nobody would be having this conversation. When a royal couple married it would be taken for granted by others that the bride was royal or aristocratic and the marriage was likely to be arranged or at least given some 'help' by relatives. How these people met would be a mix of familiarity since childhood, family weddings and large extended family get-togethers.

Now we have a full variety, parties, tennis tournaments, meetings in bars, equestrian events etc etc.
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  #56  
Old 07-19-2015, 05:17 AM
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I have read the three biographies on Willem I, Willem II and Willem III, Kings of the Netherlands and Grand-Dukes of Luxembourg. Their relationships were part of investigation as well, with lots and lots of documents revealed. However it was expected that the three gentlemen should marry "suitable" partners, it became clear that in all cases the last word was to the two people whom had to marry each other.

King Willem I married his full cousine Princess Wilhelmina of Prussia, daughter of King Friedrich-Wilhelm II of Prussia and niece to Willem I's mother. The many letters, memorandums, gifts, cards and notes showed a genuine and deep love, form the very beginning of their relationship to the last breath of Wilhelmina. This was not an arranged marriage, according all docments it was the young and dashing Willem I who felt in love with his pretty and artistic cousine Wilhelmina. Coincidentally this was a perfectly equal match, so neither from the Prussian nor the Dutch side, there was any hindrance for a wedding, which was held in 1791.

In 1841, on the age of 70, the widowed (and just abdicated) King Willem I married with Henriette Countess d'Oultremont de Wégimont, a former Hofdame (Lady in Waiting) to his late spouse, Queen Wilhelmina. This was seen as a grave mésalliance by the rest of the royal family, the Government and society. That the King married, despite all resistance, shows that this was not an arranged marriage. Also the second marriage was reportedly happy.

The only real arranged attempt failed: King Willem I wanted to match his son, the Prince of Orange (later King Willem II) to Princess Charlotte Augusta of Wales, heiress to the British throne. The King dreamt of a renewal of the strong bond between Britain and the Netherlands which had seen three British consorts before (Mary I Stuart, Mary II Stuart, Anne of Great Britain and Hannover) and would not mind to see Charlotte added to that impressive list. The pressure worked: in 1813 the Prince of Orange officially engaged with Princess Charlotte Augusta of Wales. According to the documentation in the archives it can be said Prince Willem was indeed in love with Princess Charlotte Augusta but the feeling was not reciprocal. In 1814 the Princess ended her engagement, to the deep humiliation of the Prince of Orange. The last one would never ever forgive his father for his pressure to marry Princess Charlotte which led to this humiliation before the eyes of Tout l'Europe.

In 1816 the Prince of Orange -whose bravery and gallantry during the Battle of Waterloo enhanced his reputation- married with Anna Pavlovna Romanova, Grand-Duchess of Russia, sister of Napoleon's victor, Tsar Alexander I of Russia. Despite secret affairs with handsome men here and there (King Willem II had bisexual feelings), the marriage with Anna was reportedly happy and blessed with five children.

His eldest son Prince Willem (later King Willem III) would marry his full cousine Sophie, Princess von Württemberg. Sophie's mother and Willem's mother were sisters. The marriage was not arranged. There seems to have been a genuine love and understanding between Willem and his cousine Sophie. And yes... accidentally a perfectly equal match as well... This marriage would collapse spectacularly, the worst marriage ever in the Orange-Nassau history. The War of the Waleses was tame compared with this marriage. The characters of Willem and Sophie could not have clashed more and there was not the slightest understanding between the two. The couple led a separated life but never divorced. It is interesting that this not-arranged marriage was an enormous fail.

The King's son, Prince Willem, (destined to be King Willem IV but he never made it) wanted to marry Anna Mathilde Countess van Limburg-Stirum. His father found this a grave mésalliance, for once his arch-enemy, his spouse Queen Sophie, agreed with him on this matter: the lady was not of equal birth and a Dutch subject also. "Impossible!" Despite regular pleas from Prince Willem to both his parents, he only met resistance and a categorical "No!" In the end, the Cabinet came to help. Various ministers requested King Willem III to accept a marriage of the Prince of Orange with Anna Mathilde Countess van Limburg-Stirum. The King (and the Queen) remained in their categoric refusal. Heavily disillusioned with his situation in the Netherlands, Prince Willem then went into a self-chosen exile in Paris, where he threw himself into a life of sex, drinking and gambling, leading to his premature death. His parents, especially his mother, wrote many letters to the Prince, urging him that he was free anyone he wanted, as long as it was "suitable" for a future King of the Netherlands and Grand-Duke of Luxembourg. The Prince however never overcame his love for the Countess.

In 1879 King Willem III, having survived all his three sons, engaged in a second marriage with Emma Princess von Waldeck und Pyrmont, more than 40 years his junior. We can assume that this was an arranged marriage. Not so from the Dutch side but more from the Waldeck-Pyrmont side, where Emma's mother observed a shrewd marriage policy for her daughters. She seems not to have seen the slightest problem with 4 decades difference in age... This marriage would result in a daughter (Queen Wilhelmina). It is not known what the real feelings were of Queen Emma. She was a lady impregned with "Duty First" but it is known the King was head-over-heels with Emma and could not be more joyous that -after his horrible marriage with Queen Sophie- he would experience such a sweet love on his old age.

So even in the strict 19th C, yes, there was some "help" in arranging marriages but in the end it was left to the bride- and the groom-to-be to agree or not. That was already a progress compared to the 16th and 17th C where the meaning of the bride-to-be was totally irrelevant.
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  #57  
Old 07-19-2015, 05:50 AM
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I


His eldest son Prince Willem (later King Willem III) would marry his full cousine Sophie, Princess von Württemberg. Sophie's mother and Willem's mother were sisters. The marriage was not arranged. There seems to have been a genuine love and understanding between Willem and his cousine Sophie. And yes... accidentally a perfectly equal match as well... This marriage would collapse spectacularly, the worst marriage ever in the Orange-Nassau history. The War of the Waleses was tame compared with this marriage. The characters of Willem and Sophie could not have clashed more and there was not the slightest understanding between the two. The couple led a separated life but never divorced. It is interesting that this not-arranged marriage was an enormous fail.
Don't thin that it was love from, Sophie's side. Everywwhere i read that she was not in love with Willem but with a Prince of Brunswick and only married him because of pressure from, her father King Wilhelm I. of Württemberg.
And she was also not welcomed by her mother-in-lawe Queen Anna because she had hated her sister Katharina.
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  #58  
Old 07-19-2015, 07:08 AM
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The biography of Willem III by D. van der Meulen, page 96-98:

[...]
Although she could not write about it, Sophie's memories about Berlin were filled with bitterness. Because beside Willem, she also met Wilhelm, the Duke von Braunschweig. However Sophie had never met him before, she had heard so many good things about him that she -for herself- started to make wedding plans. Due to circumstances nothing lead to it and now suddenly a Dutch cousin had entered her life, with an official proposal ánd prospects on a throne. Her dream-Duke was really handsome and utterly charming. When they met, Sophie dropped her glove and with a most fluent move the Duke picked her glove, while keeping eye-contact with her. For years Sophie would keep that glove with her. (It is still in the Royal House Archives in The Hague, with a hand-written note by Sophie).

The Duke accompagnied Sophie to her carriage and she was "excited and happy". The next days however, she barely recognized him: he acted distantly and tried to avoid her. In the meantime Sophie's father, King Wilhelm I von Württemberg, urged her daughter to give clarity and -speaking for himself- only one choice was possible. During a ball, Sophie was desperate about the sudden distant behaviour of Wilhelm von Braunschweig; in contrast the Erbprinz von Oranien acted most friendly and courteous.

Sophie wrote in her memoirs: "After the ball I accompagnied my father to his appartments. There I announced to him that I had decided to marry the Erbprinz." Wilhelm von Württemberg, moved to tears, informed her decision to the Prince of Orange and his son, the Hereditary Prince. *
[....]

* = Source: Sophie von Württemberg, l'Histoire de ma vie, page 86

[....]
What is truth? From the letters of the Prince of Orange (the later King Willem II), written around the engagement, it seems that he and his son, the Hereditary Prince, were not in Berlin when they were informed about Sophie's decision. They were informed, a month later, in Wiesbaden. The memoirs of Sophie, written 30 years later, seem not to match. This does not mean that Sophie's memoirs are not usable as historic source but it again learns the readers to be careful with the use of memoirs. When Sophie, already Queen of the Netherlands for many years, started to write her memoirs in 1865, a lot has happened which "coloured" her memories to those days in The Hague, Stuttgart, Berlin and Wiesbaden. She was married, already for more than 25 years. Like so many commemorative writings l'Histoire de ma vie was largely written in a sort of self-defence ánd self-pity. Telling is Sophie's version of a conversation with her aunt Maria Pavlovna Grand-Duchess von Sachsen-Weimar und Eisenach born Grand-Duchess of Russia, after her decision to marry Willem:

"Oh, that is nice" said my aunt in a hurry, while looking outside through the window. When I did not respond, she turned around and looked to me. She saw my pale face, the remnants of my tears. "Dearest child, what is the matter?" she asked. "Oh", so escaped me: "I feel not the slightest trace of happiness". Aunt Maria Pavlovna stood before me, touched my shoulder with her white, chubby hand she was so proud of, and asked: "Do you have a right on happiness?" The bare idea that I could be happy! I was a Princess! That sort of people has no right on happiness. I kept silent and remained calm.*
[....]

* = Source: Sophie von Württemberg, l'Histoire de ma vie, page 90

[....]
As a young Princess she had learned to cope with her destiny. That is what the Queen of the Netherlands tried to say with this. But this picture is misleading -undoubtedly not intended- because Sophie made the reader believe she had no any choice. But on this point the documents from 1838 and her memories in l'Histoire de ma vie from 1865 agreed: it was she, Sophie and no one else, who made the decision, despite pressure from her father King Wilhelm I von Württemberg. With this she was in the same league as her contemporaries, like the British Princess Victoria. Of course, the most of them dare not to doubt the principle of Ebenbürtigkeit but gone were the times that royal marriages only served dynastic interests and were made in the framework of political alliances. Of course, this sort of considerations remained - therefore the pressure by King Wilhelm I von Württemberg - but even in the highest royal circles, there was space for marriages in which personal feelings prevailed. Sophie could have refused. She did not. Seen from that viewpoint maybe it still was a mariage de coeur but that seems far away seen the later developments in the marriage of Willem III and Sophie. In letters to his father, the Hereditary Prince of Orange firstly saw Sophie as someone "he could be seen with": she had a pretty appearance, a good posture, was intelligent and sensible.

Sophie's answer on the question why she agreed with the marriage remains unsatisfactory. If it was all true what she wrote, if she was not impressed by Prince Willem, if she felt "not the slightest trace of happiness", why did she not refuse? Her memoirs keep silent about what was also connected to the kingship - or in her case, the queenship: an immense wealth, the highest position in society, a great prestige, power even.
[....]

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  #59  
Old 07-19-2015, 12:06 PM
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From the biograpgy about King Willem II by Jeroen van Zanten.

The Prince-Regent and King Willem I of the Netherlands agreed on a marriage between the Prince of Orange, heir to the Dutch and Luxembourgian thrones and Princess Charlotte Augusta of Wales, heiress to the British throne.

Pages 150-153

[...]

The next day, Sunday 12 December 1813, Prince Willem arrived at Carlton House, the London residence of the Prince of Wales. Prince George greeted Prince Willem with great cordiality and -after some trivialities- started about the question of the marriage: he and Willem's father had agreed upon an alliance between his daughter and Willem. He thought it was time that Prince Willem should meet his daughter Princess Charlotte. Because Willem was expected to return to the Netherlands, the Prince-Regent uttered the idea to let the first meeting take place the very same evening, during a diner. Prince Willem had no any option left than to agree. When Prince Willem left, he asked if he was allowed to wear the uniform of the 10th Regiment Royal Hussars during the diner? Prince George thought that this was a splendid idea: his daughter was most attached to this regiment.*

How I felt myself is difficult to describe, but anyone who meets -for the very first time- the person who is assigned to engage in marriage with him, knows how hard it is to make a decision. I told Lord Bathurst that I felt worried. He had empathy with me and told that I should try to win more time, but foresaw that this would be difficult seeing the impatient character or the Prince-Regent. *

When Prince Willem arrived at Carlton House, all guests were arrived except Princess Charlotte. The company was small and was formed by important members of the Court and the Government: Lord and Lady Liverpool, Lord and Lady Castlereagh, the Marquess of Hertford, the Earl Harrowby. The Prince knew these people and that made him feeling at ease: "I wore the uniform of the Hussars and felt pride when the guests told me it suited me perfectly." After some time Princess Charlotte arrived, together with her governess, the Duchess of Leeds. The 17 years old Princess had a pleasant appearance but she also had a few characteristics which were not to the Prince's taste:

The Prince-Regent introduced me and we greeted each other without saying anything. The Princess introduced herself to the other guests and I observed her. She is quite tall, very pale and has blonde hair, and is -in one word- a beauty à la Rubens. She has an unpleasant voice, a stammer and when she speaks, she makes some movements with her head. Her way of moving was heavy and noisy, her manners lacked raffinement. *

During the diner Willem and Charlotte had a lot of small talk. According to the Prince's notes, Charlotte pleased him by "her joyfulness and her well-willing appearance". When Princess Charlotte and Prince Willem separated after the diner, to mingle with the guests, the Prince-Regent took his daughter by the arm. Shortly after that he asked for Prince Willem and separated with his aimed son-in-law in an antichambre, leaving Princess Charlotte and the other guests.

The following conversation was, word-by-word, noted by Prince Willem. He did remember that the Prince-Regent needed few words and directly ported the question: was Princess Charlotte pleasing him indeed?

I answered that, for the short time that I have seen her, that she indeed attracted me. The Prince-Regent asked if my heart was still free?
"Yes, Your Royal Highness" I said.
"Would you marry my daughter?" asked the Prince-Regent.
"Before making any decision on that, I would like to hear from the Princess herself if she liked me and if she possibly had any objections against the aimed marriage. Have I your permission to bring a visit to your daughter, tomorrow, so that we can talk to each other, vis-à-vis, without any shame?"
"There is no any need for that" answered the Prince-Regent: "She just told me that she agreed with this alliance, that you pleases her and that she is happy with my choice. If you want, I can request her to tell this to you, in her own words."
While speaking these words, the Prince-Regent left the room and came back with the Princess.
"Isn't it, my dear Charlotte?" he said: "Isn't it that you agree with the Prince of Orange?" *


Overcome with tears, the Princess was not able to answer directly. According Prince Willem's notes the Prince-Regent gave no room for that:

Without giving Princess Charlotte any time to recover, the Prince-Regent took my hand and united this with that of the Princess. He asked us to embrace each other, blessed us as his children and left the room, leaving Charlotte and me in utter amazement and surprise. We had a short moment with each other. One minute passed, without any word: we were proposed to each other, without even being aware what exactly happened. After I found some recovery, I asked the Princess if she really agreed with the engagement as proposed by her father? I begged her to speak without any reserve and to give me her full trust. In answer the Princess made clear that she has said yes with full conviction. The little she had seen from me pleased her, she added she was moved and charmed with the prospect of our union. We promised to trust each other completely, as a base of a harmonious and happy future. *

* = HRH The Prince of Orange, Livre de Notes 1813, Royal House Archives, The Hague, A40-XII-3

The description by Prince Willem of the first encounter and the sudden engagement is in outlines the same as in a note Princess Charlotte wrote the next day, to her good friend and confidante Lady Margaret Mercer Elphinstone: on the evening she had -in an attempt to make herself as unattractive as possible- worn an old dress of violet satin duchesse with black lace. According her lady-companion Miss Ellis Cornelia Knight the Princess looked "pale and nervous" when she left Warwick House to go to the diner. **

** = Autobiography of Miss Cornelia Knight Vol I, page 266

Prince Willem was not all that "monsterly" as the Princess had expected. Lady Margaret Mercer Elphinstone, who had already met the Prince when he arrived in Plymouth, wrote to Princess Charlotte that the Prince was not really handsome -he was too tall and too thin- but that he had "a good figure, a healthy teint and a masculine appearance".

Princess Charlotte wrote to Lady Margaret Mercer Elphinstone that "despite his shyness the Prince has been most gallant and well-mannered". During the diner the Prince did not say a lot but when he engaged into the conversation, he did it with authority. "I thought he was pretty mediocre but after a while he was so lively and animated, all by all he was not that bad", so wrote Princess Charlotte, contradicting herself in one sentence. ***

*** = Aspinall, Letters of The Princess Charlotte, page 92

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Old 07-19-2015, 01:36 PM
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Don't thin that it was love from, Sophie's side. Everywwhere i read that she was not in love with Willem but with a Prince of Brunswick and only married him because of pressure from, her father King Wilhelm I. of Württemberg.
And she was also not welcomed by her mother-in-lawe Queen Anna because she had hated her sister Katharina.
Yes, that's the story i've read too; the marriage was arranged by the fathers and Sophie's opinion (which wasn't positive from the start) was not taken into account...
Quite possibly one of the worst matched royal marriages in history
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