Succession to the Thai Throne


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That is not how monarchy works. Prince Vajiralongkorn is the eldest son and heir and has been in that position for 44 years. His father officially appointed his only son, as successor on 28 December 1972. And that is it.

In my understanding the Crown Prince first wants to lead the nation in mourning and pay all respects to the late King before assuming the kingship indeed.

It is the same as in Belgium: after the death of King Baudouin: between his death on July 31st 1993 and the investiture of his successor on August 9th 1993 there was no King. The Government executed the royal prerogatives during these 10 days.

Apparently in Thailand, like in Belgium, the adagium Le Roi est mort, vive le Roi! does not count.

Actually, in 1972, he named both his son and his daughter as his successors and didn't specify who would follow him as King. I do not dispute that the Crown Prince will follow in his father's footsteps though.

Now that I've read up a bit more and watched the cremation ceremony of the King's elder sister, it makes a lot more sense to me today than yesterday that the Crown Prince would take time before ascending the throne and step into official duties. What we need to remember here is that this isn't just a monarchy in Thailand but its a Buddhist monarchy and their funereal practices are not only spread over a extensive period of mourning for the nation and its people but they there is a lot of reasons and meanings to each step that is taken. Now, I would find it quite odd if the Crown Prince were to step automatically right now into his role as King and go about business as usual when the entire country is in a period of mourning for a year and elaborate ceremonies and rituals that prepare the deceased to leave this world are yet to be celebrated.

All I can say is that they way they do things in Thailand is beautiful.
 
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That is not how monarchy works. Prince Vajiralongkorn is the eldest son and heir and has been in that position for 44 years. His father officially appointed his only son, as successor on 28 December 1972. And that is it.

In my understanding the Crown Prince first wants to lead the nation in mourning and pay all respects to the late King before assuming the kingship indeed.

It is the same as in Belgium: after the death of King Baudouin: between his death on July 31st 1993 and the investiture of his successor on August 9th 1993 there was no King. The Government executed the royal prerogatives during these 10 days.

Apparently in Thailand, like in Belgium, the adagium Le Roi est mort, vive le Roi! does not count.
but that's not the case the king officially appointed his daughter and son as successor in 1972 with equal rights but he didn't say who will succeed him like u said in thailand it's not the king is dead long live the king
and it's not like belgium , when King Baudouin was alive it was known who will succeed him because there was a line of succession to the throne unlike thailand in which the monarch name his successor and the one who will succeed him then there is a vote by National Legislative Assembly to make him legally the monarch .
 
There seemed to be misunderstanding about Princess Sirindhon position, she wasn't created successor in 1972, she was elevated in 1977 to a position rather similar to Princess Royal. She doesn't have similar right to her brother. Her honor is equal to that of rear palace in the ancient time while Vajiralongkorn has equal honor to that of the front palace.
 
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Thank you for clearing that up for us. Its amazing that how things are generally termed in one part of the world can mean something totally different somewhere else. The difference in language can be a big hurdle here too in translating terminology used.

I hope you can bear with us as we Westerners get confused, muddle things up and ask a lot of questions. This is quite a learning experience for me and I would imagine for many of us here. :flowers:
 
Isn't Her title in Thai is the female equivalent of the title held by her brother ?!
 
Isn't Her title in Thai is the female equivalent of the title held by her brother ?!

No, it isn't. The crown prince title is Siam Makut Rajakumar which mean Crown Prince of Siam; if Siridhon title is female equivalent it would be Siam Makut Rajakumari, but her title is Siam Borom Rajakumari, this title is specially created for her without any predecessor. If you translate that, it would be Princess Royal of Siam. Her order is also called differently from her brother; her order is called Pra Rajabuncha while the crown prince's order is called Pra Rajabuntoon (the king's order is Pra Borom Rajaongkan, the queen's is Pra Rajasaowani, and other princes and princesses' order are called Pra Damrus Sung.)
 
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Sorry my bad, I gave wrong information to you all may I apologise. I recheck the data and it turns out that King Bhumibol only named Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn the only heir to the throne. Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn was only gave a title that equal to "Princess Royal" indeed.
 
No, it isn't. The crown prince title is Siam Makut Rajakumar which mean Crown Prince of Siam; if Siridhon title is female equivalent it would be Siam Makut Rajakumari, but her title is Siam Borom Rajakumari, this title is specially created for her without any predecessor. If you translate that, it would be Princess Royal of Siam. Her order is also called differently from her brother; her order is called Pra Rajabuncha while the crown prince's order is called Pra Rajabuntoon (the king's order is Pra Borom Rajaongkan, the queen's is Pra Rajasaowani.)

okay now i see it , thank you :flowers::flowers:
 
Only two months ago Prime Minister Prayuth won a referendum for the new Constitution. As well as diminishing the power of future elected governments, the new constitution is intended to keep the Royal Thai Army in a position to manage the royal succession.

Amongst diplomats it is understood that Prime Minister Prayuth is not going to loosen his grip, at least until Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn is enthroned and the military can be sure the new King is not going to rock the affairs of state. The current military junta has worked hard to orchestrate a better image for Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn.

Note that the Crown Prince has had formal military training, did army service and is qualified as a jet fighter and helicopter pilot. This means he is quite close to the military junta. There is no doubt: Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn will become King. The generals will ensure this and hold power over future civil governments thanks to the new Constitution, approved two months ago.
 
Actually, Wartenberg, its not such a far fetched idea for those of us that do not know the ins and outs of Thailand and their monarchy and how it all works and fits together.
So, to me and perhaps others outside of Thailand, this might seem to be a feasible solution. ;)
And taking into consideration that its been remarked on perhaps that the CP is not the most popular egg in the dozen, who knows?

This solution, as you call it, would even in a stable, firm country cause insecurity and lead into disorientation. But in a coup d´etat shaken country like Thailand, where, for decades, only a figure head like the late King brought stability, this "solution" would sooner or later bring it all to a complete downfall!
Thailand needs a firm, respected, male or female, monarch which the Crown Prince unfortunately not is. But you just cannot divide this highest position in state up! This is against all principles, especially in a monarchy.

My guess is that the colonels in the past making a coup and not touching the crown didn´t dare to because King Bhumipol was such a respected, almost hallowed person and every try to overthrow the royal family would have turned against the colonels themselves. But if a vast majority of the Thai people would stand behind Vajarlalongkon like they did with his predecessor is a big question! I can imagine that some communists scenting morning air by now and embrace the opportunity to cease power for themselves to create a republican dictatorship.:sad:
 
i think the crown prince is making himself walking on thin ice by delaying being proclaimed king , he has to be the most perfect and impeccable person in those coming months to insure that he will be the king .
 
i think the crown prince is making himself walking on thin ice by delaying being proclaimed king , he has to be the most perfect and impeccable person in those coming months to insure that he will be the king .

Note that King Bhumibol himself waited 4 years (!) before being crowned King: he wanted to finish his studies in Switzerland and was not even in his kingdom for all these years.

:flowers:
 
Note that King Bhumibol himself waited 4 years (!) before being crowned King: he wanted to finish his studies in Switzerland and was not even in his kingdom for all these years.

:flowers:

He was crowned on the same day, it was coronation that took place 4 years afterward.
 
What is de rest of the line of succession in Thailand? Is his sister next in line or one of his children?
 
There is no reason to think that the Crown Prince won't become King. He is 1:st in line and the military junta has worked quite hard to boost his image.

But i can imagine that the junta will stay in power to control the King and make sure he behaves as they want him to and that they still would have a chance to remove him if he starts to behave badly.
 
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What is de rest of the line of succession in Thailand? Is his sister next in line or one of his children?

According to 1924 Palace Law of Succession, Prince Dipangkorn is the second in line.
 
but the king wasn't a unpopular hier like his son .

That can easily be solved. A few popular gestes: extra money for public works, pardon for minor offences, two days of national holiday for the enthronement, some PR offensive with a smooth series of elaborate ceremonial and being seen with the world's high and mighty. He will easily shrug off his playboy image.
 
Princess Sirindhorn is obviously a very much loved and very popular member of the Royal Family and that will never change.

I do not know much about her, but she strikes me as being a quiet, studious and hard-working person and, somehow, I do not imagine she has aspirations to become the monarch. That is not to say that she wouldnt be a wonderful Queen and indeed I think she would be superb.

Nonetheless, I have no worries at all for her on all counts, that she will be able to carry on her activities and duties in the normal way and for her brother to become king.
 
That can easily be solved. A few popular gestes

Such cynicism... I prefer to believe the Thai people cannot be bought so cheaply.. they are used to admiring their King [who WAS admirable]...
 
Actually, jeannedorleans explained the succession in a manner we can all understand. Might help to go back and read her posts. She, herself, is in Bangkok and I would think a native of Thailand would know more than those of us in the West do.

The more I read, the more I see the rational thinking behind the delay that the future king has taken. It has nothing to do with the government nor the policies or being liked and disliked but following his Buddhist beliefs and the beliefs of the nation as a whole to assure that all the proper and traditional ceremonies and rituals are carried out. During this time, from what I've read, the deceased King is still believed to be (somewhat) among us. These ceremonies and rituals far surpass and are far more elaborate and with more meaning than any culture I've become aware of. Its beautiful.

Today, we saw an entire multitude of mourning people in black and white to just see and bear witness to the passing of the king's remains on its way back to the Palace. The national colors of mourning for Thailand are black and white. This was shown in the bunting that was hung. It is also tradition, from what I read, to have and carry a picture of the deceased and we saw a lot of that also.

So, to make it a bit shorter, I don't believe there's anything amiss in how the succession is going to be in Thailand.
 
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That can easily be solved. A few popular gestes: extra money for public works, pardon for minor offences, two days of national holiday for the enthronement, some PR offensive with a smooth series of elaborate ceremonial and being seen with the world's high and mighty. He will easily shrug off his playboy image.

I don't think that would go over very well. From what I understand, two days would be shortening the celebrations. This should give us a glimpse into what we are in store for when Rama X is crowned.

The coronation ceremony first took place at the start of the reign of King Rama IV in 1851.

The ceremony takes place over three days. It begins on 3 May when Buddhist monks hold a service in honour of the Chakri dynasty in the Grand Palace. The next day, the head of the Brahmin priest will read out the official proclamation of the coronation.

On 5 May, following a feast for the monks, the coronation ceremony takes place, with the event celebrated by a 21 gun salute at noon.

It is a tradition on this day, that the King will then present awards to those who have made a valuable contribution to Thailand.

Coronation Day, Thailand | Office Holidays
 
Such cynicism... I prefer to believe the Thai people cannot be bought so cheaply.. they are used to admiring their King [who WAS admirable]...

They were brainwashed for 7 decades about their divine King. Any futile criticism on their King was severely punished by justice. Oh yes, if there is one country able to brainwash the people, it is Thailand. Of course the new King can wreck his kingship, but he is already an old man and when he lets himself to be moulded and guided by the government and the Household, all will come well. I have no worries about that.
 
Forget the government powers that be or the Household or juntas or whatever else may or may not have say in directing how things go. If we really, really look closely at what is going to be going on from now until the coronation of the monarch, there are a big group of people that will be playing a major role and that is Buddhist monks.

We may not understand totally everything that is going on or will be going on but its a good opportunity for learning. The worst thing we can do, I think, is put western values and ways of doing things on what will be happening in Thailand. Thailand is a country that has a 95% of its people practicing Theravada Buddhism and that faith affects a big part of just about everything.

BTW Duc_et_pair. Watch it when you call a 64 year old an "old man". His Highness and I were born in the same year so I resemble that remark. I hear it again and I just may have to come over there and box your ears you young whippersnapper!

(just teasing of course)
 
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They were brainwashed for 7 decades about their divine King. Any futile criticism on their King was severely punished by justice. Oh yes, if there is one country able to brainwash the people, it is Thailand. Of course the new King can wreck his kingship, but he is already an old man and when he lets himself to be moulded and guided by the government and the Household, all will come well. I have no worries about that.

If other posters make statements about people in other countries that you don't agree with, you have a tendency to respond "did you ask everyone in... " and then a list of towns in that country, in an effort to diminish te opinion of the other poster.

I suggest you go to Bangkok, Chiang Mai or Phuket and make the statement you posted above and we'll see what the Thai people think of it..
 
Princess Sirindhorn is obviously a very much loved and very popular member of the Royal Family and that will never change.

I do not know much about her, but she strikes me as being a quiet, studious and hard-working person and, somehow, I do not imagine she has aspirations to become the monarch. That is not to say that she wouldnt be a wonderful Queen and indeed I think she would be superb.

Nonetheless, I have no worries at all for her on all counts, that she will be able to carry on her activities and duties in the normal way and for her brother to become king.

I think I'm right in saying the new king is no longer married and I suspect that unless he takes a new wife in the future we may see Princess Sirindhorn effectively act as 'Queen'. I notice both attended together the Dutch inauguration of King WA, I feel that in order to put such comments about Princess Sirindhorn becoming sovereign they will instead do a lot of things together while the Crown Prince/new King will hold all the powers of sovereign.
 
They were brainwashed for 7 decades about their divine King. Any futile criticism on their King was severely punished by justice. Oh yes, if there is one country able to brainwash the people, it is Thailand. Of course the new King can wreck his kingship, but he is already an old man and when he lets himself to be moulded and guided by the government and the Household, all will come well. I have no worries about that.

Brainwashed for 7 decades? It's pathetic to see many westerners like you trying to find the reason behind King Bhumibol's popularity and ended up with ''it's a propaganda, people were being brainwashed", absolutely pathetic. Of course, you choose to forget that King Bhumibol travelled thoudsands of mile across his kingdom to visit his people even in the areas that were threatened by communist movements at the time. You choose to forget that his projects improves life quality of many people. He built dams, roads, bridges, canals, resevoirs, and etc. He makes rain when farmers need rain. He takes rural people to hospitals when they're sick without paying any Baht. He played Jazz and wroted many songs. Even my university song was wrote by him. You know what, if all of these were brainwashing campaigns, then they are the most successful campaigns this world has ever had!

And if you continue to say so, how brilliant King Bhumibol is to had United Nations taking part of his campaigns :

United Nations News Centre - With new Human Development award, Annan hails Thai King as example for the world

Human Development Lifetime Achievement Award - His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand
 
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Brainwashed for 7 decades? It's pathetic to see many westerners like you trying to find the reason behind King Bhumibol's popularity and ended up with ''it's a propaganda, people were being brainwashed", absolutely pathetic. Of course, you choose to forget that King Bhumibol travel thoudsands of mile across his kingdom to visit his people even in the areas that was threatened by communist movements at the time. You choose to forget that his projects improves life quality of many people. He built dams, roads, bridges, canals, resevoirs, and etc. He makes rain when farmers need rain. He takes rural people to hospitals when they're sick without paying any Baht. He played Jazz and wroted many songs. Even my university song was wrote by him. You know what, if all of these were brainwashing campaigns, then they are the most successful campaigns this world has ever had!

And if you continue to say so, how brilliant King Bhumibol is to had United Nations taking part of his campaigns :

United Nations News Centre - With new Human Development award, Annan hails Thai King as example for the world

Human Development Lifetime Achievement Award - His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand

The position of His late Majesty of blessed memory stands solid on its own merits, there is no need to give attention to the standard nay-sayers who revel in every opportunity to reduce another persons achievements and presence. There is no dispute over the late Kings unique place in the minds of the Thai people, and his elevation to this revered place was not something done as a courtesy or out of fear, it was a natural consequence of the actions of the King during an amazingly long reign, through often turbulent and worrying times for Thailand. His late Majesty often single-handedly steered Thailand away from threats tearing at her seams, and all through his enormous position of gravitas and affection, he remainded solidly grounded, humble and devoted to his people.
When the position, accomplishments and gratitude given towards the memory of the King is ill-advisedly attacked or demeaned, I think the words of Michelle Obama serves us all best: 'when they go low, we go high.'

As for the actual succession, there is a Crown Prince who will be proclaimed King in a short while, but to those that worry about the perceived delay in doing so, there's no need at all. The Crown Prince will be King, but when a most beloved King passes away and Thailand mourns, possibly in a way that many in the West do not understand, the Crown Prince wisely saw the timing as not right for an instant proclamation. Now is the time to mourn a King who was, rightfully so, deeply loved and respected. Soon enough the Crown Prince will ascend the throne, and when he does, he needs the love and support of the people to flow in his direction, to ensure that the next reign will be a good and wise one in the footsteps of a great, departed King.
 
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