The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #101  
Old 01-07-2007, 06:48 AM
CasiraghiTrio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burbank, United States
Posts: 6,402
I didn't know about the divorce rumors. Somehow I missed that. I guess Naruhito and Masako are deeply in love, as always, but the pressure from the IHA seems like a lot to bear. I can't imagine living like that. All the love in the world is wonderful, but for someone who is very depressed.... Depression is a serious disease and apparently Masako has depression or something akin to it. I think the IHA calls it "adjustment disorder" and everyone else in the press seems to say it's "stress related." I have Depression and to me, Masako looks like a depressed woman. I think she loves her family intensely, and they adore her, at least her husband and her daughter, I don't know about the rest of his family. I think Masako is an amazing woman and I would hate to see this family split up, but on the other hand, with her depression seeming so bad, I'm not sure that her being Empress one day is the best thing for her...or for Japan.
__________________

__________________
Chewsteraghi on Tumblr. Schmichaelira on Twitter. Tumblr aka obsessivechewsteraghidisorder. Be warned: I'm weird.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 01-07-2007, 07:55 AM
Jackswife's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 812
Unhappy

I think Naruhito would pull a Duke of Windsor and leave Japan, rather than give up Masako. Empress Michiko also IIRC had a lot of trouble adjusting to palace life when she married Akihito, but I don't know if that has translated into more (or less) sympathy for the situation Masako is in with the IHA. I also don't think NAruhito has any trouble at all standing up for his wife against anyone. He seems totally committed to her and Aiko and it would strike me as very uncharacteristic of him to divorce Masako.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 01-07-2007, 08:30 AM
CasiraghiTrio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Burbank, United States
Posts: 6,402
Jackswife, I admit that I had the same thought about Naruhito. I tend to feel that if Masako wanted out of public life, he would follow her. You are also right about his mother, it seems. I think the details are unknown to the public, but two articles mention the "ill-health" of his mother. Both of them are about Naruhito and Masako and mention what the (London) Times terms as "the historical ill-health of his mother..." I think the IHA is to blame. They put too much strain on these people. If the Imperial monarchy could reform two aspects (1. weaken the IHA, 2. let Aiko be Empress!) everything would be great!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...105542,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...182448,00.html
__________________
Chewsteraghi on Tumblr. Schmichaelira on Twitter. Tumblr aka obsessivechewsteraghidisorder. Be warned: I'm weird.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 01-07-2007, 09:44 PM
scooter's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelPrincess
Could you please explain - what evidence is there that Kiko is pregnant through IVF? And what do you mean by IVF-boy?
The technology is now advanced to the point that if you are doing in vitro, you can either 1. spin the sperm in a centrefuge to seperate the x and y sperm or 2. more likely, fertilize the eggs in vitro, select only male embryos which would give you 100% accuracy on the sex of the baby.This technology is commonly available in the states; for those who can afford it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 01-09-2007, 05:22 PM
corazon's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: -In some dark place-, Argentina
Posts: 2,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandy
Has Masako's doctor ever confirmed this diagnosis? Can you provide links to articles/books on which you base your opinion because I don't think anyone can diagnose postpartum depression simply by looking at pictures.
the doctors said sha have depression and that start before aiko's birth, may be was hard for her have a girl, the imperial family was ..... not good....when aiko born.
__________________
Today the world has embraced new royal Princesses in the form of Mary of Denmark and Maxima of the Netherlands. But it's questionable whether even these hugely popular, increasingly glamorous future Queens will ever capture the world's imagination in the same way as Diana.
As Mario acknowledges: "She really was a true Princess".
-www.theroyalist.net-
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 01-22-2007, 03:42 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Posts: 3
If I were God, I'd bless Masako with twin Boys just to keep the crown within the Crown Prince's family first before trying to change the succession laws if possible... I really hate to see the Crown going to Prince Akishino's family. To me, it seems that he's quite chauvanistic.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 01-22-2007, 05:18 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
You are also right about his mother, it seems. I think the details are unknown to the public, but two articles mention the "ill-health" of his mother. Both of them are about Naruhito and Masako and mention what the (London) Times terms as "the historical ill-health of his mother..." I think the IHA is to blame. They put too much strain on these people.
The Empress Nagako (Kojun) didn't help matters. Apparently she never forgave Michiko for not being a princess from one of the old princely families, as she herself was. No doubt many within the IHA shared the same view. When she married into the Imperial Family it was hoped that Akihito and Michiko's experience of the Old Guard would somehow protect Masako from the same stresses, but it was not to be.

We can blame the IHA all we like, but the IHA is not the only power within the Imperial Palace compound.
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 01-22-2007, 12:54 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
Apparently the Empress Nagako herself was something of an outsider because she was a princess from a minor branch of the royal family and wasn't a member of one of the families that usually provided the Empress, so she was treated to some derision by the palace insiders. It's a great shame that the pattern repeated itself with the next generation and Empress Nagako was part of the reason why Empress Michiko had such a hard time of it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 05-23-2007, 03:41 PM
Idriel's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: around, France
Posts: 1,130
^maybe one of the reasons Nagako displayed hostility toward Michiko was her own insecurities. It must have must some sort of relief (if a twisted one) to have someone to look down upon, and be, for once, the bully instead of the victim. I know it a bit of a DIY psychology, but I don't think it's too far-fetched.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 05-23-2007, 05:52 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 119
IHA - whose authority?

Perhaps some of the more informed members of these forums can help me to understand what is going on with the IHA and Japan's royal family. I've looked up everywhere I can find about the history of the IHA and from what I gather, it was created by a Japanese emperor to assist with the runnings of the emperor's household. After WWII and up until 2002 (?) it was an agency under the authority of the Prime Minister. Now it is called an "external" agency of the Prime Minister, under the authority of a "Grand Steward".

Everything I've seen about the Japanese PM Junichiro Koizumi indicates that he is progressive and was outspoken about wanting Princess Aiko to be named after her father in the imperial line of succession.

My questions are as follows: When did this agency become so powerful? Does anyone have the authority to tell them their services are no longer needed? Can the emperor or PM replace any or all of the IHA? I understand the respect for tradition but couldn't the royal family "go on strike" until the things change? Or do the citizens and government of the country of Japan just don't care about the royal family and how they may or may not be being treated/pressured by the IHA?

Thank you in advance for any response/insights.

Mapper
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 05-23-2007, 07:14 PM
Royal Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,734
Hello, Mapper:

I was wondering exactly the same. All people is being very agressive toward the IHA (and sometimes they are right), but we doesn't really know whose authority it has. I wish I could know more about IHA and its authority. It will be very sad that the Imperial Family could be almost a prisonner of this organism. Of course, I'm with traditional ways...but if things are like you presented them, Mapper, it is clear that tradition is not involved here...It's almost like the Imperial family is commanded by an external force...I'm really worried.

Vanesa.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 05-23-2007, 09:10 PM
EmpressRouge's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 1,293
Based on some of the other posts in the forum, it seems the IHA controls the money for the imperial family. And he who controls the purse-strings can have a lot of power.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 05-24-2007, 06:46 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereditary Mapmaker
Perhaps some of the more informed members of these forums can help me to understand what is going on with the IHA and Japan's royal family. I've looked up everywhere I can find about the history of the IHA and from what I gather, it was created by a Japanese emperor to assist with the runnings of the emperor's household. After WWII and up until 2002 (?) it was an agency under the authority of the Prime Minister. Now it is called an "external" agency of the Prime Minister, under the authority of a "Grand Steward".

Everything I've seen about the Japanese PM Junichiro Koizumi indicates that he is progressive and was outspoken about wanting Princess Aiko to be named after her father in the imperial line of succession.

My questions are as follows: When did this agency become so powerful? Does anyone have the authority to tell them their services are no longer needed? Can the emperor or PM replace any or all of the IHA? I understand the respect for tradition but couldn't the royal family "go on strike" until the things change? Or do the citizens and government of the country of Japan just don't care about the royal family and how they may or may not be being treated/pressured by the IHA?

Thank you in advance for any response/insights.

Mapper
Former Prime Minister Koisumi wasn't a progressive, rather he was a populist. He sniffed which way the wind was blowing in regards to female succession ( the opinion polls that showed overwhelming support for female succession) and then decided to put together a committee to look at the succession and make recommendations to parliament, who are the ultimate authority over the Imperial Family. When it seemed that the opinion polls showed that most Japanese people would only consider a female Emperor, if there was no-one else, and there was a possibility that a male could be born, he shelved the legislation to change the succession laws.

The IHA was actually far more powerful before the end of the Second World War, the reform done with the American occupation severely curtailed their power. They also had far more people and had a lot more money.
I don't know where the 2002 changes you got, there has been no change in the way the IHA has operated since the reform in the late 1940's. The Head of the IHA, the Chief Steward is answerable to the government of the day. The Japanese tax payer funds the royals and they are one of the most expensive royal families. Inside the Imperial Palace grounds there is a fully staffed hospital for the royals and their staff that sees a couple of patients a week.

Japanese in general respect the Imperial Family but considering the sense of duty and obligation which is part of their culture they don't think there is anything really awful happening to the royals. There is a cultural clash here between western and eastern values. Masako is most heavily defended and pitied in western press and scorned and criticised by Japanese.

If you want to find out about the history of the IHA, try their website, just google "kunaicho" that's Japanese for Imperial Household Agency and they have an English index with a link to the role and I think history of the IHA.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 05-24-2007, 10:55 PM
monica17's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Little Baguio, Philippines
Posts: 820
Are the senior officials of the IHA and members of the parliament composed of people from the former nobility and cadet branches of the Imperial Family? That's the only reason I can think of why can they be more powerful than the Imperial Family.....

Why can't the family's wealth be restored to them? Japan is the only monarchy in the world whose royal family hardly have personal assets (correct me if I'm wrong). What the was decreed (with the USA at the helm) after WW 2 should no longer matter. IMHO, things would be much simpler if they have their own sources of money, so that they can't be cowed by the IHA. Then things would change, and there would be less problems in the family.
__________________
Monica17

Kindness is the magic elixir of love - The Practice of Kindness
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 05-25-2007, 05:10 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by monica17
Are the senior officials of the IHA and members of the parliament composed of people from the former nobility and cadet branches of the Imperial Family? That's the only reason I can think of why can they be more powerful than the Imperial Family.....
.
No, the IHA members aren't from the former nobility or cadet branches. But the real old guard are generational employees of the IHA, the same family would have worked with the IHA in the same capacity for several generations.
This is not the case anymore, the CP couple have as their head of household a former diplomat who had worked with Masako's father. Supervising Aiko's education is a women who is an actual Early Childhood expert with degrees, unlike the former "aunties", from the same families, cared for the Imperial children. Masako's chief Lady in Waiting is like Masako educated in both Japan and the US.
The Japanese Imperial Family never had much access to their money, before Japan was forced to open up in the mid 19th century the Emperor lived such a reclusive life that most Japanese weren't even sure they existed. Employees of the IHA devote their life to the Imperial Family and the tradition that is the Imperial Family, therefore the older ones and the ones who have worked for the IHA for generations are very tradition bound and conservative.
They do have some private money, very modest compared to other royals. When Emperor Hirohito died he left in his will 1 million yen to be divided among his children, surviving daughters as well as his 2 sons who were Imperial Family members. ( the girls marry 'out') They also privately own art work and antiques, which gets passed down through inheritance.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 05-26-2007, 12:39 AM
Royal Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,734
Thank you for clarifying things, Charlotte1. I supposed that things were not as simple as they were being presented. IHA's story is rather complex and we must study it more thorougly.

As for the "progressive" and "populist" thing, I wouldn't state my opinion, since these are adjectives...and adjectives are always subjective. For me, none of these words has any practical meant. Sometimes a person is qualified of being a "progressive" only for he/she is against tradition (good or bad ones), family , any kind of religion, decency, etc, etc (and there is people who things these are possitive ideas)...And sometimes a "populist" is only a person who loves the people and tries to make his happyness. (and this is considered a bad thing ) When I was younger, I used a lot the word "progressive" to speak good things about a politician I admired. Nowadays, I'm much less inclined of using this word, knowing its common meant these last years. And of course, every time I heard the words "populist" and "demagoge" applied to a politician, I take it with a grain of salt. Now, I judge persons by their actions, without qualifying them under any subjective word. If Mr.Koisumi is a cunning man who acts in a determined way just to get more power...well. That's the way I'll define him.

Thank you for all the great info work you are doing here, people. I admire you all for your work as researchers!

Vanesa.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 05-28-2007, 06:10 AM
monica17's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Little Baguio, Philippines
Posts: 820
Many, many thanks for the detailed answers, Charlotte1. It makes things clearer about the IHA's attitude and why they act in such a manner, and also on the Imperial Family's finances. I'm also happy to know that the IHA is slowly being "modernized" with the changes in staffing; hopefully these new people will be more relaxed than their predecessors.

Is Masako really scorned and criticized in Japan? Then that's not going to help her recover, will it? Do the Japanese think that Masako's illness is partly caused by her "reluctance" to conform to palace life and that she is "neglecting" her duties by "insisting" to be a modern woman? No wonder the divorce rumors never stop....some - if not many- people are out to get her out of the picture.
__________________
Monica17

Kindness is the magic elixir of love - The Practice of Kindness
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 05-28-2007, 07:29 PM
PrincessElena's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: -, Hungary
Posts: 124
Nagako

I found an interesting article of Empress Kojun. Back then, they had to face this :

"...The potential engagement caused a great deal of controversy within the Imperial Court and the genro (most of whom were former Choshu samurai). The bride-to-be was of the blood royal. However, she did not come from one of the Go-sekke –the five noble houses of Fujiwara descent (Konoe, Nijō, Takatsukasa, Ichijo, and Kujo), which had provided the principal consorts of the emperors for centuries. More importantly, Field Marshal Prince Yamagata Aritomo [peer], the senior member of the genro and leader of the Choshu clan, opposed the engagement since Prince Nagako's mother was the daughter of the last daimyo of Satsuma. Instead, he wanted the crown prince to select a bride from the Choshu clan. Yamagata, the principal architect of the Imperial Japanese Army and arguably the most powerful man in late Meiji and Taishō Japan, vehemently opposed the engagement for seven years. In 1919, Yamagata arranged the publication of a medical journal article, which alleged a history of color-blindness in the of the princess's mother, the Shimazu of Satsuma. This alleged hereditary malady, he argued, would damage the flawlessness of the Imperial bloodline. Prominent newspapers printed the allegations and Yamagata demanded that the Imperial Household Ministry annul the engagement. Prince Kuni vowed to commit suicide and kill Nagako if the Imperial Household Ministry cancelled the engagement. He allegedly enlisted the aid of nationalistic Tokyo gangsters to thwart Yamagata. The gangsters organized large rallies in Tokyo, which denounced the plots against Princess Nagako as disloyalty to the throne. Emperor Taishō intervened on Nagako's behalf by dismissing the article on color blindness. "I hear," the emperor told Yamagata, "that even science is fallible." The Imperial Household Ministry announced the engagement on the evening of 19 June 1921..."

(taken from Deceased Members of the Imperial Family )
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 05-28-2007, 08:17 PM
Royal Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,734
Thank you! The article you posted is very instructive too, PrincessElena. I didn't know that they've made up an hereditary colour blindess disease in Empress Kojun's family. What a disgusting thing...To lye about persons just to damage their reputation... You may not like a person, but making fake testimony about him/her is unbearable and should be punished in some way, for, once people hears or read something about someone, tends to believe it. Or if they doesn't believe the information in a whole, they tends to admit that "there must be something going on there"...And the damage is IMMENSE. Is for that, that we must be very careful about what we write or comments here in the net. I read a lot of fake information in the net, even about medical issues, which it is VERY dangerous as you may immagine.

Vanesa.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 05-28-2007, 11:34 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
There's some feeling that the Japanese press that covers royal news is in the pocket of the IHA because the IHA control access to royals and royal events; this is why much of the real news about the royals tends to be broken in foreign papers - I think some of them get anonymous tip-offs from journalists whose careers would be wrecked if they wrote the articles themselves. So I suppose if The Powers That Be want to spread rumours, they've got a compliant press to do it with.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crown prince naruhito, crown princess masako, divorce, masako, naruhito, prince naruhito, princess masako


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crown Princess Masako: Current Events Mandy Crown Prince Naruhito and Crown Princess Masako and Family 253 06-04-2014 10:44 AM
Masako Picture Thread Part 1 Mandy Crown Prince Naruhito and Crown Princess Masako and Family 27 03-10-2012 11:17 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince felipe crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary current events diana duchess of cambridge fashion dutch royal history engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri habsburg infanta cristina infanta elena infanta leonor infanta sofia king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander olympics ottoman palace pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince felix prince floris prince frederik prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:27 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]