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  #101  
Old 07-19-2007, 07:56 PM
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I don't think that IHA is forbidding the Crownprincess to go with his husband. Where did you find these infos? I saw them pretty exagerated. Maybe, Princess Masako must undergo a great stress and it is not good for her health to attend too crowded official acts, and much less going outside Japan. My father had a stress crisis some time ago and has his nerves broken (just to see that this doesn't happen only to "fragile" women! ), and psychiatrist FORBADE him absolutely to attend crowded places and solemn ceremonies. He reccommended him to rest at home and going out little by little, whithout pushing events nor forcing himself to anything. If we wanted him healed, we must follow these advices from him. And my father is very well right now.

Princess Masako must be being protected for her recent stress episode. I'm seeing clearly that she is recovering. But maybe she must not engage into too crowded official acts until some time...

Vanesa.
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  #102  
Old 07-20-2007, 03:55 AM
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I think she must rest the time she need and the press must stop print this kind of info 'cos would be worse to her.
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  #103  
Old 07-20-2007, 04:27 PM
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If she is so 'unwell' and 'stressed' how come she is beaming and full of life to rare times when she is let out of the Prison, I mean Palace. IMO she'd be a lot less stressed if she was allowed to go out and enjoy herself every now and again, instead of being trapped in the Prison, I mean Palace and under surveillance by the IHA. It has also been widely reported that the IHA believes that keeping the Empress and CPS home was more likely to result in additional children. I guess they never heard of a honeymoon baby! I dont know about you all, but I dont find being kept locked up and watched every moment of the day to be terribly conducive to baby making! It would make me VERY grouchy to say the least. Much more likely to be romantic on a trip to Paris or Rome, then locked in her room.
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  #104  
Old 07-20-2007, 05:06 PM
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I agree with you, about that keeping a person locked up so that they can get pregenant is a bad idea. However, there must be another reason that the IHA is keeping the Crown Princess locked up besides that. I like to think that the IHA is doing because they feel insecure because of the Crown Princess's intelligence, power....etc and this a way to make themselves feel better.....there is always another reason...
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  #105  
Old 07-20-2007, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
If she is so 'unwell' and 'stressed' how come she is beaming and full of life to rare times when she is let out of the Prison, I mean Palace. IMO she'd be a lot less stressed if she was allowed to go out and enjoy herself every now and again, instead of being trapped in the Prison, I mean Palace and under surveillance by the IHA. It has also been widely reported that the IHA believes that keeping the Empress and CPS home was more likely to result in additional children. I guess they never heard of a honeymoon baby! I dont know about you all, but I dont find being kept locked up and watched every moment of the day to be terribly conducive to baby making! It would make me VERY grouchy to say the least. Much more likely to be romantic on a trip to Paris or Rome, then locked in her room.
You are not a psychiatrist. Go and read a good article about stress written by a psychiatrist and then speak. I know very well what stress is, for I have a very hard case in my own family. The person who suffers it is not in anormla state, and its normal that he/she doesn't want to travel or be among a lot of people. A stressed person doesn't see things as we do. In times, friends and family wants the person to go out and travel "to enjoy themselves" (for a normal person would enjoy doing this) and push him/her to do so, and the person saids plainly NO. WE should enjoy travels and going out, stressed persons does not. Thinks about it.

Princess Masako and Prince Naruhito loves each other: this can be seen in every pic of them you are able to watch. She has a problem and he tries to support her a lot. It's people who begings to imagine nonsense. It's people , not IHA who is destroying this couple little by little, day after day. If you don't see Princess masako in official travels and events, maybe s for she DOESN'T WANT TO GO HERSELF, and not for someone has forbidden her to attend them. And no, stressed persons are not normal. Stress, as our doctor explained it to us (I mean severe stress, the one who interferes with your daily life), could waste a person a great deal, and this person feels always tired, with a lot of wishing of rest...and even if he/she rest, he/she feels tired.

And I ask my question again: Did someone read that IHA forbade the Crownprincess to attend official events? In the case the answer would be affirmative: where did you read it?

Vanesa.

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Originally Posted by dragonsfire8 View Post
I agree with you, about that keeping a person locked up so that they can get pregenant is a bad idea. However, there must be another reason that the IHA is keeping the Crown Princess locked up besides that. I like to think that the IHA is doing because they feel insecure because of the Crown Princess's intelligence, power....etc and this a way to make themselves feel better.....there is always another reason...

More "modern-like" stuff...So, these bad, bad men are attacking the poor, poor goody Princess for she is intelligent and intelligent women are hatred...People: may you THINK before you post? "Progressive" people is always speaking against the usual conception who thinks that world are bad and good, black and white...and then , they are the first ones who thinks that "all these narrowed-minded persons" (the bad ones, of course!) are against "we, intelligent-feminist-atheist-post-modern-people without country-progressive new men and women" (the good ones, of course!)...Oh...you are so, so hilarious, and "politically correct"...and what bad people traditionalist are! (You speakes about the IHA as if they were the bad characters of cartoons, like the Joker in Batman!)

Vanesa.
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  #106  
Old 07-20-2007, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanesa View Post
More "modern-like" stuff...So, these bad, bad men are attacking the poor, poor goody Princess for she is intelligent and intelligent women are hatred...People: may you THINK before you post? "Progressive" people is always speaking against the usual conception who thinks that world are bad and good, black and white...and then , they are the first ones who thinks that "all these narrowed-minded persons" (the bad ones, of course!) are against "we, intelligent-feminist-atheist-post-modern-people without country-progressive new men and women" (the good ones, of course!)...Oh...you are so, so hilarious, and "politically correct"...and what bad people traditionalist are! (You speakes about the IHA as if they were the bad characters of cartoons, like the Joker in Batman!)

Vanesa.
How very rude to ridicule other posters for expressing their opinions. There's a world of difference between the Joker in Batman and the IHA. The Joker is a fictional character who cannot physically hurt anyone whereas the IHA is made up a very real men who control every aspect of the Imperial Family, and yes, they have the clout to ruin any member. It's also very clear that the IHA favours Akishino over Naruhito in the way the official duties are assigned. I think Masako is declared unfit to attend certain functions, not because she is ill, but just because it is the IHA's whim to do so.
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  #107  
Old 07-21-2007, 11:55 AM
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My two cents' are that Naruhito has IMHO backed Masako despite the IHA, and no matter what, he loves her and Aiko very deeply. Maybe there *are* conspiracies behind closed doors against her, or maybe she really is under doctor's orders not to travel abroad or attend many functions because of stress. I would be completely stunned if Naruhito EVER divorces Masako, because I believe he married her "for better, for worse" and he has stuck with her through all the trials of their married life together.
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  #108  
Old 07-21-2007, 12:26 PM
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reverse fairy tale, he got the prize and she got the toad

well said mandy thank you "The Joker is a fictional character who cannot physically hurt anyone whereas the IHA is made up a very real men who control every aspect of the Imperial Family, and yes, they have the clout to ruin any member. It's also very clear that the IHA favours Akishino over Naruhito in the way the official duties are assigned. I think Masako is declared unfit to attend certain functions, not because she is ill, but just because it is the IHA's whim to do so"
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  #109  
Old 07-22-2007, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackswife View Post
My two cents' are that Naruhito has IMHO backed Masako despite the IHA, and no matter what, he loves her and Aiko very deeply. Maybe there *are* conspiracies behind closed doors against her, or maybe she really is under doctor's orders not to travel abroad or attend many functions because of stress. I would be completely stunned if Naruhito EVER divorces Masako, because I believe he married her "for better, for worse" and he has stuck with her through all the trials of their married life together.

This is exactly my opinion. I'm happy you stated it in such a clear way, since my English is poor.

Oh, and for these who saids I am RUDE (I tried to be very careful in my answer), I invite the other poster just to check out in the way in which members who believes they are Princess Masako supporters speaks and states things. Just see the language they uses and how they phrases are written. I certainly allow others to show their opinions (who am I to forbidde them to have them? ), but I also ask to moderators and posters to leave me expose mines. I NEVER ridiculizes anyone, but only tryes to show that the ones who are always speaking againts "conspirative minds" have the more conspirative minds it could be, maybe whithout realizing the fact. I asked more than once where "pro-princess Masako" posters read that it was IHA who forbadde her to go out of Palace, and adviced one of them to go read some online article about stress. Nothing more, nothing less. If this is offending. The offensive thing here is to think that maybe (and I say maybe for I don't know the facts deeply, as anyone here does) IHA is not the bad, bad institution that pro-west school of thought are trying us to buy, and that all Princes are bad, unintelligent guys and Princesses are beatiful, intelligent, bright and better than them. I was raised in the conviction that two sexes are equal, and in any way one better than the other. Before, some people used to think that men were better than women. Now, there is the opposite: women are always better than men, and men are stupid decorative creatures that got the world in the mess it is. I was always a "person of the middle" and takes things like they are. I like girls, but I'm very angry when every times a Princess is pregnant, people saids: "Oh, I hope she will give birth to a little girl!", and when a boy is born (as Prince Isahito's case) these same people gets furious almost affirming that the birth was a conspirace to steal an innocent little girl her throne.

I read the more absurd ideas about these issues, trying not to say what I really thing about them, for I know that my ideas (not me. I don't really believe in personal prosecution, but in indeas ones) should be marqued as "offensive" and the others (the "politically correct ones) should be lavelled as freedom of expression. I'm used to this, and I don't really care about it. Ban me, suspende me, does whatever you wants with me. BUT PLEASE DON'T SAID I WAS RUDE, FOR I WAS NOT. Simply said that these ideas are not allowed in the world any more, and I will accept it and move away gently , whithout a reply. I'm not the gressive kind of person. I only likes to say what I think, like the rest of the members.Maybe I sounded a little ironic. This is true, I must admit it...But when you read that even a sickness is blamed on the IHA, or if people sees Princess Masako whithout a smile and states: "Is the IHA who makes her to be that stern!"...who is being rude and absurd? Who is going straight to paranoia? So, I WAS ironic when comparing the IHA with the Joker...But you also must admit that there is people who saws it this way. It's not me. Even you, bbb are accepting that maybe things are not the way most of posters seems to see them when you writes: "...I THINK Masako is declared. etc, etc...". So you THINK. You are not certain of it. Nor me. So, we may only wonder.

So, please, don't call me rude again. Read my other posts and tell me if I was rude or, inestead of it, I always tried to put peace among insulting people who is always imagining strange situations. Yes...yes. I pestered about "modern, post-modern" and such more than once, but this is referring to the world we are living in, not to the current posters. And only once I indulge myself supporting a member who says (speaking about Princess Letizia) that Spaniards will never accept a Queen who is divorced. This is my real thought but I should not wrote it. It was unrespectful for the Princess. She is not guilty of the world we are living in, and I present my apologies to ger right here.

My respects to you too, Mandy and bbb

Vanesa.
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  #110  
Old 07-23-2007, 12:46 PM
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i hope you don't think i'm rude when i stand by my statements the IHA is EVIL and too powerful and doing harm in numerous ways to the royal family and their prestige around the world. perhaps you should do more research (a quick hit gave me over 400 sites) nothing i read changed my mind about this shadow organization and the evil minions in power, if anything it cements my opinion. some articles suggest they aren't allowed to use the telephone to an outside line or have any contact (even family) without going through the IHA. masako can't even call or see her mother without an ok from the IHA- I'm sorry if this isn't a human rights issue i don't know what is, reality of it is she is a hostage.

vanesa you demanded proof, here you go, if you've got the time read up and link articles to back up your support of the IHA. (i couldn't find any)

*quotes from article (my opinion)

Japan's Mystery of Majesty - TIME
IHA wields significant power. It keeps a tight grip on the royal family's contact with the outside world and controls the authorized version of imperial family
*To a degree unimaginable elsewhere, the IHA controls its charges' lives. Unlike Britain's Prince Charles, who has his own interests and pursuits, including an enormously successful charity, Japan's royals have virtually no say over their calendars. "They don't get to choose where they go or what they do,
*they have no surname, no personal wealth or possessions, no passports and few, if any, legal rights
*The royals aren't permitted to live like normal human beings. They are forced to live in a miserable situation, stripped of many basic human rights."

Imperial Household Agency: Information from Answers.com
*government agency of Japan in charge of the state matters concerning Japan's imperial family (way too much power)
*responsibilities of the daily runnings, such as state visits, organising events, preservation of traditional culture, administrative functions (control ALL the$)
*The Agency has responsibility for the health, security and travel arrangements of the Imperial family, including maintaining the Imperial line. A "Grand Master of the Household" helps manage the schedules, dining menus, and household maintenance for the family (they don't even get to choose their own food)
*frequently been criticized for isolating members of the Imperial Family from the Japanese public, and for insisting on hidebound customs rather than permitting a more approachable, populist monarchy (they are destroying it)

Pandoras Box
*loss of financial independence is one of the greatest, concrete reasons for the IHA’s power. The Imperial Family has to rely on a budget which is controlled by the IHA.
*Every year, the IHA receives almost 18 billion yen (approx. $160 million) but the lion’s share of that money goes to the agency itself. In 2004, 10.83 billion yen was allotted to the IHA for its expenses and 6.30 billion yen went for palace upkeep, palace-related expenses and cost associated with official royal duties, such as ceremonies and state banquets. What’s left over was given to Imperial Family for their personal use. (greed always figures into the equation, evil and greedy-hand and hand like salt and pepper.)
*the family itself gets only 1/28th of the overall sum given to the IHA. (someone with better math skills will have to figure that one out)
*source of dominion over the Imperial Family; it also controls the family’s access to the outside. As noted earlier, access can be power; and no-one has access to the Imperial Family unless the IHA says so, not even family members

ZNet |Japan | What Role Japan's Imperial family?

ZNet |Japan | Trouble at the Top: Japan's Imperial Family in Crisis
*We were met by a kunaicho (Imperial Household Agency) official, a superbly unpleasant and sniffy bureaucrat, who did not feel the need to smile or even greet us in the usual formal Japanese way.He then berated me for walking in the center of the long hallway leading to the meeting room. "Only his majesty walks in the center," he said banishing me to the edges of the carpet.
* I mention this incident to give a flavor of the life of the beleaguered Princess Masako since she gave up a diplomatic career for life beyond the royal moat. Surrounded by people like our handler, with their total dedication to the emperor cult and the countless arcane rules that structure it, and under intense pressure

The Washington Note

there are 100's more in the same vein, if you want to take the time to educate yourself more on this subject.
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  #111  
Old 07-23-2007, 03:53 PM
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I always feel that the Empress should have supported Masako more during the difficulties she had since she (the Empress) was, I believe, the first commoner to marry so highly into the RF and had to suffer a lot herself.

Was she so brain-washed that she now feels that Masako has to toe the line, or is she just so afraid to cross the IHA that she stands back? Certainly it is often reported that Naruhito goes much further than is traditional in supporting his wife against the IHA. After all, I believe he refused to marry if she wouldn't marry him, which she reluctantly did as she had a pretty good idea of how restrictive things at the Palace would be.
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  #112  
Old 07-24-2007, 06:42 AM
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Bbb you really need to do some better research. Do you read or even speak Japanese? Have you bothered to look into the origins and accuracy of the stories that you are quoting as proof of how evil the IHA is? Have you ever lived in Japan and do you have an understanding of the rigidity of the Japanese society especially the more conservative aspects of it. A quick note on some of articles you’ve quoted.

Quote:
*they have no surname, no personal wealth or possessions, no passports and few, if any, legal rights”
Well the Danish, Norwegian and Greek royals ( all descendents from the same royal house) also have no surname.
They do have personal wealth and possessions, the statement they don’t is incorrect. Emperor Hirohito( Showa)’s will was made public he left a modest estate of a million yen to be divided among his surviving children, including his daughters who married ‘out’ of the Imperial Family. Some of this estate was in the form of furniture and art works, therefore they do have personal possessions.
No they don’t have passports but then neither does Queen Elizabeth II.

Quote:
” IHA wields significant power. It keeps a tight grip on the royal family's contact with the outside world and controls the authorized version of imperial family”

Yes it does control quite rigidly the news of the Imperial Family from the outside world, much to the annoyance of the western media who want to write tabloid news articles about them. It also means that the Imperial Family have a far higher degree of privacy ( and ill informed speculation, if the media don’t know something they make it up and pass it off as fact) than other royal families. Masako was able to spend a year taking Aiko to the National Children’s Castle ( a playgroup) 3 times a week without the western media really knowing about it, it was written about in the Japanese press. Masako is criticized in the Japanese press for been seen out socializing at a festival in Tokyo, but the western press and message boards like to perpetuate the myth that she’s a prisoner in the palace. She visits her sister in Tokyo, her mother comes and sees her, it was her mother who found the psychiatrist that is now her doctor not the IHA.

Quote:
“*frequently been criticized for isolating members of the Imperial Family from the Japanese public, and for insisting on hidebound customs rather than permitting a more approachable, populist monarchy (they are destroying it)”
But only criticized in the western press not the Japanese. ( Answers.com is NOT an accurate or factual source of information) Japanese people are tradition bound and highly prize their traditions, there is no real call for the monarchy to be populist. There is also no movement to abolish the monarchy, it’s just something that is part of traditional life and will remain so.

Quote:
“*Every year, the IHA receives almost 18 billion yen (approx. $160 million) but the lion’s share of that money goes to the agency itself. In 2004, 10.83 billion yen was allotted to the IHA for its expenses and 6.30 billion yen went for palace upkeep, palace-related expenses and cost associated with official royal duties, such as ceremonies and state banquets. What’s left over was given to Imperial Family for their personal use. (greed always figures into the equation, evil and greedy-hand and hand like salt and pepper.)
*the family itself gets only 1/28th of the overall sum given to the IHA. (someone with better math skills will have to figure that one out)”
Have you bothered to research what the IHA actually spend the money they receive from the government? Only a proportion actually goes to the Imperial Family the rest is used to maintain a dairy farm where all the Imperial Family’s milk comes from. The IHA runs a hospital in the grounds of the ImperialPalace in central Tokyo, it’s a fully equipped and staffed hospital which sees on average 6 patients a day. It’s there for the Imperial Family members but they tend to use Tokyo’s hospitals when hospitalized as Naruhito was recently. The money is used to pay for a full 24 piece orchestra, maintain at least 4 holiday homes which remain fully staffed all year round even when they don’t have Imperial Family members staying there. The money given to the IHA is used to maintain the old ImperialPalace in Kyoto ( the old capital) and various Imperial shrines and the priests who maintain them. The Imperial Family and their lifestyle is probably the most expensive royal family to upkeep (I’ve only listed things I can think off the top of my head, there was a whole book written 3 years ago listing how much government money went to the IHA to support the upkeep of the lifestyle of the Imperial Family) Also factor here the incredible overkill that is the staffing generally in Japan. At a petrol (gas) station you will have at least 6 different people serve you, self-service in unheard off.

Quote:
“*We were met by a kunaicho (Imperial Household Agency) official, a superbly unpleasant and sniffy bureaucrat, who did not feel the need to smile or even greet us in the usual formal Japanese way.He then berated me for walking in the center of the long hallway leading to the meeting room. "Only his majesty walks in the center," he said banishing me to the edges of the carpet.
* I mention this incident to give a flavor of the life of the beleaguered Princess Masako since she gave up a diplomatic career for life beyond the royal moat. Surrounded by people like our handler, with their total dedication to the emperor cult and the countless arcane rules that structure it, and under intense pressure”
Again do some basic research, the journalist who wrote this article is reknowned for his anti- Imperial stories. Not just anti-IHA. Since that is the angle he’s coming from it follows that he isn’t going to write anything positive. Plus because of his stories he’s heavily disliked but the IHA press office and his access to official conferences is restricted so that makes him write even more negative stories.


Quote:
some articles suggest they aren't allowed to use the telephone to an outside line or have any contact (even family) without going through the IHA. masako can't even call or see her mother without an ok from the IHA- I'm sorry if this isn't a human rights issue i don't know what is, reality of it is she is a hostage.”
This whole no access to the telephone is an urban myth, there has never been any proof that this is the case. Masako’s mother was able to take Masako at the height of Masako’s breakdown to their family holiday home in Nagano prefecture, this was despite the fact that the Imperial Family have a villa there. Masako stayed with her mother for a month, there were no IHA members there as there was no room, even Naruhito’s entourage stayed in a hotel when he visited her. Masako eventually returned to Tokyo as her mother had to return back overseas. She’s not a hostage people visit her at the palace and she in turn is able to leave and socialize with people outside the palace, no there are no photos as there are no paparazzi in Japan. There aren’t photographers stalking the palace gates, the photos you do see of Imperial families members entering and leaving are official photo ops where the Imperial family members even helpfully wind down the windows so the photographers can get a good shot.
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  #113  
Old 07-24-2007, 10:19 AM
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i don't need to do research to cement my contempt for the IHA or a culture that would accept and condone the horrible treatment of both the empress and crown princess to the point of mental breakdowns. attempting to defend the indefensible with personal attacks isn't going to change anybody's mind only links and civil discussions. i've read alot over the years- i found masako facinating from the beginning as a royal watcher i was thrilled by the vibrant, smart, beautiful woman marrying her prince (who was and still is imo very much in love with her) and then to my horror i saw her being destroyed by THE IHA. as i've DONE my research my opinion has only hardened with every bit of evidence of total and complete control of these these greedy, power hungry out of control shadow government.
if you google IHA (as i did yesterday 100's of hits come up (all in the same vein) i notice you didn't link any positive links to back up your support of the IHA.
"it was her mother who found the psychiatrist that is now her doctor not the IHA. " (WONDERFUL there's some hope)
"Japanese people are tradition bound and highly prize their traditions, there is no real call for the monarchy to be populist. There is also no movement to abolish the monarchy, it’s just something that is part of traditional life and will remain so " (the last poll i saw supported masako becoming empress by a high margin, perhaps the modern japanese women working, marrying later and putting off having children have a different opinion of tradition) is that the thought abolish the monarchy? it has to stay moribund to the point of extinction? abolish the monarchy or keep women in their place? there is no point in whether i read japanese or not, as the press is not allowed to publish anything about the family unless it is fed by the IHA.
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  #114  
Old 07-24-2007, 08:38 PM
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Thank you for the links. But there are opinion articles. Not statesment of facts. Facts must be proven, not supposed to be.

And, oh..be sure that everyone needs to do research about any issue he/she needs to state her/his opinion about. The "I do not need to do research", makes me remember about a classmate , when we were studying Urquiza, a president we had in Argentina. She hated him, and repeated all the popular rumors about his life you can imagine. When I invited her to go to our library or the National Archives to make research on him, she declined saying: " I do not need to read any book just to know how bad he was!" Hum...She has made up her mind hearing opinion and repeating the popular, false statesment about the man.She imagined he was bad, and wouldn't read anything that could change her ideas about Urquiza. I took it easy and just move on the issue. We are still friends, but we wouldn't discuss history any more. All her ideas are "made up" by medias and rumors.

Vanesa.
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  #115  
Old 07-25-2007, 02:47 PM
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While it's always best for opinions about someone to be backed up by something authoritative (hence our rules about speculation and gossip), this isn't an academic forum and we aren't asking for the level of scholarly backup that someone would put into a research paper. As long as people have sources to back up their opinions, that's a lot better than not having them.

We can always criticise other people's sources - in the British forum we know that the Daily Mail is biased when reporting stories about Camilla and some of the other tabloids seem to make things up as they go along - but at least if they post their sources, we can see where they're basing their opinions.

There's a lot of feeling in the West that the IHA has an unusual level of control over the Imperial family, both financially and socially, compared with the equivalent situations in Europe. Whether one person wants to go so far as to call that level of control evil while another person accepts it as being a reflection of Japanese society is where opinion takes over. In some ways both could be the case: the notion that an individual might need to be reined in so sharply that mental breakdown ensues is a very distasteful notion to people brought up with the idea of the importance of the individual but maybe in a society where a nonconforming individual is seen as a threat it isn't such a terrible thing. From personal experience in interacting with Japanese colleagues of my husband's (and from stories I've heard from him after three-month trips to Japan), things are just really different there from in the USA. I don't think it's necessary to have lived in Japan or to speak Japanese in order to form opinions about the situation there, as long as the level of fact the opinions are based on is made clear.
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
While it's always best for opinions about someone to be backed up by something authoritative (hence our rules about speculation and gossip), this isn't an academic forum and we aren't asking for the level of scholarly backup that someone would put into a research paper. As long as people have sources to back up their opinions, that's a lot better than not having them.

We can always criticise other people's sources - in the British forum we know that the Daily Mail is biased when reporting stories about Camilla and some of the other tabloids seem to make things up as they go along - but at least if they post their sources, we can see where they're basing their opinions.

There's a lot of feeling in the West that the IHA has an unusual level of control over the Imperial family, both financially and socially, compared with the equivalent situations in Europe. Whether one person wants to go so far as to call that level of control evil while another person accepts it as being a reflection of Japanese society is where opinion takes over. In some ways both could be the case: the notion that an individual might need to be reined in so sharply that mental breakdown ensues is a very distasteful notion to people brought up with the idea of the importance of the individual but maybe in a society where a nonconforming individual is seen as a threat it isn't such a terrible thing. From personal experience in interacting with Japanese colleagues of my husband's (and from stories I've heard from him after three-month trips to Japan), things are just really different there from in the USA. I don't think it's necessary to have lived in Japan or to speak Japanese in order to form opinions about the situation there, as long as the level of fact the opinions are based on is made clear.
Of course, you are right. But you must accept that since everyone (me included) is biased, because we already have opinion about things, we may choice the papers and books that support these opinions we already have. . The ones who really believes that Duchess of Cornwall is not a good person and are missing Lady Diana can choice to believe what the "Daily Mail" said. And that's the same for all the other persons we are discussin in these Forums. But again , these are not proven facts. If you saids: "I believe that IHA is...etc, etc", that's fine. But you can't state saying that there is any doubt about it that IHA forbadde the crownprincess to go here and there, for you didn't know it. Of course, nor me. And I can't state the opposite anyway. And why? Simply for I don't know. I'm not an IHA ennemy, nor a supporter since I don't know how IHA really is, nor what it really does.

And I'm not pretending to make a scientific place from the Royal Forums. They will get very boring. I was only saying that we must support the things we said, specially if they are against persons. If we only have our own opinions about something, this alone has no value. And of course, I was not inviting anyone to go live in Japan for some two years in order of having a real idea about the IHA. If I should said this, you would have all the right to think I'm going crazy! You must know about Japan and any other country just by speaking to Japanese people or reading books about them. This is not an "asking for any level of scholarship", you don't need it it to be cultured. Books and internet, and good magazines and people -simply people-are there, always at hand, for us to know more and more about the world we are living in. So, if you saids "I believe -or I think- that IHA is not acting fairly, there is rumors that its blocking the Crownprincess way of life..." will be O.K. But if you states angrily: "The IHA is evil! what narrow minded they are! What's happening with them is that they hate intelligent women!", and such, this wouldn't sound fair, nor serious.

Other thing is that I (and other people) don't believe in uniformity of cultures. What is good here could not be so good there. And this could be true even concerning to different parts of a same country. So, I suppose there must be a lot of thing we wouldn't ubderstand about Japan and a lot of things they wouldn't understand about us. However, we could be friends one to each other. And that's right, forfriends must accept each other like they really are, even with their great differences.

No need to take a class about Japan culture. No need to go made a scholar-kind research. I was saying something more, but much more simply than that. "Research" is not only what we do when we are ready to write a book , but also the simply act of wanting to know a fact , go and ask about it. Nothing less, nothing more.

The ones who hates the IHA could keep hating them; the ones who loves it, could do the same . Only it could be good these persons knows why they have these positions and are able to explain it to others. I'm in the middle, for in fact, I don't know anything about this isntitution, excepting the phrase that it is "very evil" . If there is some Japanese member around, I wish he/she could state what he/she thinks about IHA and if it is true that it forbadde Princess Masako to leave the Palace. So I could begin (and only begin) to make my mind about this controversial topic.

Vanesa.
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  #117  
Old 07-25-2007, 09:11 PM
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Vanessa,
I dont think that any member here has said that they hate Masako or Naruhito or any member of the imperial family. I am curious as to why you vehemently defend the imperial household agency, whose members have caused both the Empress and the Crown Princess such distress. Other, of course ,that they are ancient and not 'modern'. Modern does not by definition mean bad. Is penicillin 'bad' just because it is 'modern'? By marrying into the imperial family Masako subjegated her personality and education to be a 'non modern' princess. Does she REALLY have to give up everymoment of pleasure/happiness for the rest of her life? Is it by definition, neccessary? I sincerely hope not. After the experience of the last 2 ladies to marry into the family, I cannot imagine how the new heir will ever find a lady willing to marry into this quagmire. Then your ancient family will have a very 'modern' mess indeed. The Imperial line will die out. Would that be better?
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  #118  
Old 07-27-2007, 12:53 AM
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I never said that any of the Forums members had attacked the Crwonprinces. In any way. Well...there is people who criticizes Prince Naruhito for he wouldn't defend his wife the proper way, or they suppose he wouldn't.

And I stated quite clearly that I can't defend IHA since I didn't know the truth about it; of course, I cannot attack it just for the same reason. I'm curious to know the truth, for all I read about them is: "...Someone said that they wouldn't let the Princess do this...", or "...It is said that IHA made that...". I never could know if these statements are the truth. I'm aware (by simple experience, since I'm historian) that when someone it's too criticize by everyone in modern civilization, thinks are biased and this person (or institution in this case) could not be so bad. So; nor defend, nor attack. Only wanting to know the truth.

As for the "modern" think..Hum, penicilina is quite old by now! No; seriously speaking I would made a difference about new things (all things that now are old, were new when they appeared) and "modern" ones. For me the word "modern" speaks about a kind of civilization and values. A "modern" thing has nothing to do with inventions or to merely "new" things. One would speak of "Modern era", but inventions are different, these are only things, new or old things. Besides, if internet was "new" it isn't new any more. But "modern" values and ways would last modern even if they are old. Divorce is quite old, since it was very common in Roman decadence's times and in the decadent civilization before Napoleon First Empire, in France. But it's modern. Modern is a conception.

And it's the same for "old". "Old" is a word that for me also goes to depict things, items, objets. A chair could be old. Old and deserving to be throwed away. But traditional an old are two different things. Tradition is always "old", but "old" things are not always tradition. My English is unclear and unsure, but I will try to explain how I feel. And old table without a leg, without style, all broken and without any story attached to it, is old. A stylish XVII Century Louis XIV table that could tell you tales if you know how to ask about them to it, is tradition.

I never rejected good, new inventions (as penicilina), but "modern" points of view gives me chills...

I think I explained somewhere here (was it in this same Forum? I guess that the answer is yes ) what "modern" and "tradition" would mean for me. If I find the link (I'm an idiot for this ), I'll post it here , for I'm wanting to be more clear about this issue and I can't .

Hope you were able to understand just a little my mess above! The fact is that I only asked about IHA for I wanted tradition to be preserved in Japan, but I never mean I believed they were good or evil. I just DON'T KNOW. But there is a thing for I really never cared: the fact they are "old" or "young". And old person could be very modern (Look at the Rolling Stones! ) and a young one, very traditionalist (Madame Royale was, by far, more traditionalist than her mother, Marie-Antoinette)

Vanesa.

My post about "modern" conception is in page 3 of this very same thread. I don't konw how to post the link, but here it is.

Vanesa.
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  #119  
Old 08-22-2007, 02:59 PM
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Why is the CP going through this stress? What does the Household Agency do the Imperial Family? Is the Agency responsible or is it just being in the limelight and traveling a lot?
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Old 08-22-2007, 04:00 PM
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the IHA controls all aspects of the royal family- IHA controls all the money, where they go, when they go, who goes etc. my belief is they don't let masako go and trot out the depression story to explain her not going, then we see masako looking healthy and beautiful seeing him off on his trip making a fool of the IHA story. the japanese press doesn't print anything about the family unless it's been provided by the IHA. they don't do anything to make the IHA mad or they are barred from events and reporting. google IHA the stories about the amount of power they have is hair raising. they have set out to destroy masako just like they did the empress who is had a mental breakdown years ago.
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