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  #1  
Old 03-25-2008, 10:15 PM
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Criticisms of the Crown Princess and her family

Almost all the female magazines have been supporting Princess Masako,
covering stories from her side, including comments of an anonymous wife
of a high rank official. Quite recently some male magazines have started to
print some of the true aspects of To-Gu. The public is beginning to
recognize the To-Gu issue.

I' like to start with some annoying remark of Princess Masako that hurt
not a few Japanese.

In her birthday's press conference in 2002, Princess Masako said, "Thankfully,
Aiko is very healthy, and has a placid character very much like that of His
Imperial Highness the Crown Prince, and?how should I put it?is very relaxed
and calm, and I feel very lucky in that regard. I also feel truly blessed and
thankful that I have a child who enjoys such robust health, when there are
many children who do not enjoy this blessing. "

If she thinks this way, she might break down when she has a child who
she thinks does not enjoy such blessing.
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  #2  
Old 03-25-2008, 10:21 PM
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I'm sorry but I don't understand what the problem is with this statement. I can't fathom why anyone could take exception to what she said. She called it a blessing that she has a healthy child, and expressed concern and compassion for those that do not.

Every parent wishes for and prays for a healthy child, and are thankful when they get one. That does not mean that they will not love a disabled child less. No one knows how they will react to such a situation until they are confronted with it.

Perhaps something has been lost in translation, but I can find nothing wrong with this statement.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:27 PM
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I'm with Empress. It just sounds like she is grateful that Aiko is healthy and is sympathizing with the fact that some parents are not quite so lucky. I don't think she meant any disrespect by it at all.
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  #4  
Old 03-26-2008, 08:10 PM
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ekat8,

Can you tell me who got annoyed by her supposedly insensitive statement?
I personally don't find it offensive, and as far as I know, no media outlets in Japan, neither quality papers nor tabloids, have taken issue with that.
I know that it's one of the favorite topics of the notorious anti-Masako thread on the Japanese BBS forum, 2 chan (that's where all the ridiculous slanders against the CP couple originate), though.

I'm really looking forward to reading your next posting.
Will it be about the 'insensitive' tanka poem the princess wrote a couple of years ago for new year imperial poetry reading?
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:27 PM
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What about it do you find insensitive? I agree, I would think every parent would want a healthy child, but would love their child even if they were sick and/or disabled.
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  #6  
Old 03-26-2008, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress View Post
I'm sorry but I don't understand what the problem is with this statement. I can't fathom why anyone could take exception to what she said. She called it a blessing that she has a healthy child, and expressed concern and compassion for those that do not.

Every parent wishes for and prays for a healthy child, and are thankful when they get one. That does not mean that they will not love a disabled child less. No one knows how they will react to such a situation until they are confronted with it.

Perhaps something has been lost in translation, but I can find nothing wrong with this statement.
Thank you for your kind comment. I admit that some nuance has lost in this translation. She used "noni" and that is translated into "when", but I took it "despite".

We think and say those things privately within our family and friends. I might be able to say, "as a princess", it is not an appropriate remark. We don't say publicly something like we are happy to be rich despite there are people who are not. It's just not decent.

Before her official visit to New Zealand and Australia in 2002, she said in the press conference, " However, I do remember that the expectations of the people of Japan have taken various forms and among these of course was the hope for a child. On the other hand, there were also expectations for us to engage in engendering international goodwill through overseas visits in the course of our official duties. I believe that in those days it was necessary for me to consider where I should place my priorities and what was most important to me. "

This remark stunned us. She compared the importance of having a child with overseas vistis.

I have a friend who gave up having a child because she wanted to have a certain profession. She made her choice and I admire her determination and strength.

But Princess Masako's husband is expected to become the 126th Emperor in her country. Princess Masako has been, is and will be expected to act as a princess. "I'm a Crown Princess. It's my life. I'll do whatever I want when I wish." attitude is not welcomed.

Anyway, she's been enjoying her private life fully in this month too. She had a tea party in her palace on 19th and 200-minute-lunch with Aiko-sama's friends and their mothers in an Italian restaurant on 21st, attended a class reunion and stayed in a hotel restaurant for four hours on 22nd and went skating on 24th. Needless to say, she skipped all her duties.

She is reportedly going on a five-day "recuperation" ski trip with her
mother, her sister and her family, her friends and her husband at the end of this month. The whole hotel will be rent for them. For their pleasure
hundreds of officers will be moved to keep away the comonners.
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekat8 View Post
Thank you for your kind comment. I admit that some nuance has lost in this translation. She used "noni" and that is translated into "when", but I took it "despite".

We think and say those things privately within our family and friends. I might be able to say, "as a princess", it is not an appropriate remark. We don't say publicly something like we are happy to be rich despite there are people who are not. It's just not decent.

Before her official visit to New Zealand and Australia in 2002, she said in the press conference, " However, I do remember that the expectations of the people of Japan have taken various forms and among these of course was the hope for a child. On the other hand, there were also expectations for us to engage in engendering international goodwill through overseas visits in the course of our official duties. I believe that in those days it was necessary for me to consider where I should place my priorities and what was most important to me. "

This remark stunned us. She compared the importance of having a child with overseas vistis.

I have a friend who gave up having a child because she wanted to have a certain profession. She made her choice and I admire her determination and strength.

But Princess Masako's husband is expected to become the 126th Emperor in her country. Princess Masako has been, is and will be expected to act as a princess. "I'm a Crown Princess. It's my life. I'll do whatever I want when I wish." attitude is not welcomed.

Anyway, she's been enjoying her private life fully in this month too. She had a tea party in her palace on 19th and 200-minute-lunch with Aiko-sama's friends and their mothers in an Italian restaurant on 21st, attended a class reunion and stayed in a hotel restaurant for four hours on 22nd and went skating on 24th. Needless to say, she skipped all her duties.

She is reportedly going on a five-day "recuperation" ski trip with her
mother, her sister and her family, her friends and her husband at the end of this month. The whole hotel will be rent for them. For their pleasure
hundreds of officers will be moved to keep away the comonners.
ekat8, if you wish to keep crediting these quotes to the Crown Princess, I must ask you to provide evidence.

Moreover, please acknowledge which duties Masako skipped since we are all aware that the imperial duties are assigned by the IHA and just as easily canceled by the IHA.

Mandy
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  #8  
Old 03-27-2008, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamina View Post
ekat8,

Can you tell me who got annoyed by her supposedly insensitive statement?
I personally don't find it offensive, and as far as I know, no media outlets in Japan, neither quality papers nor tabloids, have taken issue with that.
I know that it's one of the favorite topics of the notorious anti-Masako thread on the Japanese BBS forum, 2 chan (that's where all the ridiculous slanders against the CP couple originate), though.

I'm really looking forward to reading your next posting.
Will it be about the 'insensitive' tanka poem the princess wrote a couple of years ago for new year imperial poetry reading?
These so-called "new aspects" seem to be starting with something quite familiar that's over five years old. This seems to be a definition of "new" that I must admit to being unfamiliar with. Since there's nothing new about them, I've changed the thread title.

On another board where I post, we had an influx of these people, and it was about the worst bunch of stuff I've ever read on a royalty forum. It made the anti-Camilla, anti-Charlene, and anti-Mary threads look tame. It started off with a few comments like the above and had moved to outright expressions of desire for someone to kill Masako and Aiko and preferably also Naruhito before the moderators deleted it and banned the posters.

If this thread starts going down that road, it won't last long. We have no desire to be a vehicle for libel, defamation, malicious propaganda, or hateful gossip. We're aware that there are factions in Japan who want nothing more than to see Princess Masako divorced, humiliated, and hopefully dead, and her daughter dead along with her. Those people are not welcome here.

Please remember the following rules:
  • Insulting comments about other posters and royals are not permitted. Criticism is acceptable; insults and flames are not. We expect our members to treat each other with respect.
  • We do not allow unsubstantiated gossip and speculation based on hearsay. Opinions should be backed up by reference to published reports
Elspeth, Mandy, and Kimebear

Japanese Forum moderators
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  #9  
Old 03-27-2008, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pamina View Post
ekat8,

I'm really looking forward to reading your next posting.
Will it be about the 'insensitive' tanka poem the princess wrote a couple of years ago for new year imperial poetry reading?
I知 glad you joined in this thread. I致e learned a lot from the comments and now have an impression that Prince Masako couldn稚 live up to the expectations and very sadly tried to cover it up. Reading books about her, she and To-Gu are apparently trying to destroy not only the Imperial system but also all the precious traditions of Japan.

I might be biased. I don稚 like her outfit in red and white in Kuwait four days after the Great Hanshin Earthquake occurred. As you know, red and white is considered to be an auspicious color in Japan.

I知 more than happier for our country if I知 wrong.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekat8 View Post
I’m glad you joined in this thread. I’ve learned a lot from the comments and now have an impression that Prince Masako couldn’t live up to the expectations and very sadly tried to cover it up. Reading books about her, she and To-Gu are apparently trying to destroy not only the Imperial system but also all the precious traditions of Japan.

I might be biased. I don’t like her outfit in red and white in Kuwait four days after the Great Hanshin Earthquake occurred. As you know, red and white is considered to be an auspicious color in Japan.

I’m more than happier for our country if I’m wrong.
Yep, you might be, at that.

Why on earth would the next emperor want to destroy the imperial system? Most people aren't that keen to put themselves out of a job.
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  #11  
Old 03-27-2008, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandy View Post
ekat8, if you wish to keep crediting these quotes to the Crown Princess, I must ask you to provide evidence.

Moreover, please acknowledge which duties Masako skipped since we are all aware that the imperial duties are assigned by the IHA and just as easily canceled by the IHA.

Mandy
I should have written the URL. Thank you for pointing it out.
You can find her comments in Japanese here,
皇太子妃殿下のお誕生日に際しての記者会見の内容

皇太子同妃両殿下の外国ご訪問前の記者会見の内容

and in English here,
皇太子妃殿下のお誕生日に際しての記者会見(英文)

You can see their schedule here, but only in Japanese. When Prince Naruhito meets with ambassadors and representatives of foreign countries in their palace, I assume Prince Masako is supposed to be present.

皇室のご日程:宮内庁

Here you can find what she did and what she didn't.
皇室のご日程:宮内庁

On 26th in January, she tried to do her duties. She attended a ceremony in the morning but skipped a scheduled duty to see figure skating with her husband and other officials. The IHA can't cancell a duty between those duties.

Prince Naruhito meets with ambassadors and representatives from foreign countries in their palace and Prince Masako is supposed to be with him. Those are considerd to be their duties.
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  #12  
Old 03-27-2008, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekat8 View Post
I知 glad you joined in this thread. I致e learned a lot from the comments and now have an impression that Prince Masako couldn稚 live up to the expectations and very sadly tried to cover it up. Reading books about her, she and To-Gu are apparently trying to destroy not only the Imperial system but also all the precious traditions of Japan.

I might be biased. I don稚 like her outfit in red and white in Kuwait four days after the Great Hanshin Earthquake occurred. As you know, red and white is considered to be an auspicious color in Japan.

I知 more than happier for our country if I知 wrong.
What exactly did she try to cover up? I confess that I am confused regarding this issue. Aside from the pulic comment that she suffers from an "adjustment disorder" evidenced by her bout with shingles and that she has, so far, been unable to provide a male heir, what manner has the "cover up" taken form of?

Also, under what conditions is wearing red and white inappropriate? I have seen on more than one occasion a visiting dignitary wear these colors as an acknowledgement of respect for Japan's flag. Is it your assertion that your Crown Princess does some dishonor by doing the same?
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:23 AM
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I didn't know that this forum is based on the view that the IHA is a villain. Then, I am in the wrong place. I feel very embarrassed. Sorry for the confusion.
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  #14  
Old 03-27-2008, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekat8 View Post
I didn't know that this forum is based on the view that the IHA is a villain. Then, I am in the wrong place. I feel very embarrassed. Sorry for the confusion.
This forum is based on the history of royalty and the lives of the members of the royal families. Statements that are made as if they are facts, however, should be able to be proven. If you don't care for the Crown Princess then that, of course, is your right and your dissenting opinions of her are welcome in the spirit of fair conversation as long as they are not slanderous or insulting.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Yep, you might be, at that.

Why on earth would the next emperor want to destroy the imperial system? Most people aren't that keen to put themselves out of a job.
Thanks for the message . Before I leave this thread, I'd like to answer your message.

Prince Akishino and his son are in the second and third line to the throne now , but magazines often cover stories that CP couple want their daughter
to be their next. They can easily deny that, but they don't. If they try to change the law again, there will be a lot of conflicts.

This is the first time for me to put messages on a forum and I learned a lot here. Thank you all.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:08 AM
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I'm sorry ekat8, I simply do not understand your logic in this thread. Nothing that she seems to have done is out of the ordinary. Even if she is having some "me" time, then that is okay. All of the royals have that.

And of course they would want their daughter to be next in line to the throne. It is afterall her birthright. And quite a few of us on the forums see no reason why it should be taken away simply because she was born of the female gender. I also see nothing at all wrong with them wishing for this.

Nobody here is stating that the IHA is a villian, simply that some of their practices might be outdated, and ill suited to the times we now live in.

As most of us here are here to follow royalty, that implies a certain respect for tradition, but tradition does need to be tempered to match the times that one lives in as well. I believe that the IHA simply does not want to change, and the time will come when they will have no choice but to either bend or break, and I believe that they are quickly pushing towards the breaking option.

Ekat8, I don't know if you are a parent, but if you are, or ever intend to be, I assume that you would give thanks for a healthy, happy child.

Speaking of tradition, if I am correct, Japan is still a very male dominated society, as evidenced by the fact that the crown princely couples daughter has been passed over. In this respect, Masakos role when her husband would meet diplomats and politicians would be little more than an arm decoration, and would likely either be bored silly or get in the way. Furthermore, it may well be that the CP would be discussing some things that the IHA deems inappropriate for Masako to be party to, so it might have been their decision that she not be present. Unless you are an insider in the IHA, I would be doubtful that you have any knowledge of the particular reasons that she was not present at a particular event.
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:57 AM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
On another board where I post, we had an influx of these people, and it was about the worst bunch of stuff I've ever read on a royalty forum. It made the anti-Camilla, anti-Charlene, and anti-Mary threads look tame. It started off with a few comments like the above and had moved to outright expressions of desire for someone to kill Masako and Aiko and preferably also Naruhito before the moderators deleted it and banned the posters.

Can you (or anybody else in this forum) explain why there is so much hate? I mean even if all this WERE true, if Masako always thought only of her pleasure and never of her duties, never did her work and never understood that in her position it is expected of her to have children (which I do not believe but only supposing), all this would be fair reasons to absolutely dislike or strongly criticize her but certainly not a crime for which she should be executed, let alone her innocent daughter? I mean she has neither robbed a bank nor killed her grandmother. So much hate seems to me absolutely irrational, and I would really like to understand it. Can anybody help?
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:27 PM
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That kind of horrifies me as well!

I had no idea that there was such vitriole against CP Masako and her daughter, than there have actually been postings (not here, I can't imagine that here) calling for their deaths.

Deaths?!

There are some members of some royal families that I feel occupy their positions by virtue of no virtue, but even those, I do not wish harm.

I suppose I never appreciated the depth of oddness with which the Moderators must cope.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:14 PM
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My humble opinion ...

Japan is an extremely cruel country, which strives for perfection and rests upon strict adherence to traditions. Throughout Japanese history, the Imperial family has been a symbol of the Japanese identity as a nation. So the Japanese will be reluctant to introduce any major changes that may adversely affect this symbol or tarnish its images in any manner. The Japanese respect harmony and do not like anyone, who attempts to express his/her personal opinion. Any person, who dares to behave in differently, always gets pressure from others to conform to generally accepted rules and traditions, receive harsh criticism, and suffer ostracism. I believe that Crown Princess Masako dared to utter 杜e a few times instead of 努e. In short, Crown Princess Masako attempted to rock the boat of the eternal harmony and peace. The same situation takes place in Vatican.
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:18 PM
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I have seen it mentioned on other websites that the idea of Masako taking her own life would not go amiss. Preferably before she becomes Empress. That way Naruhito would be free to marry again and perhaps produce a male heir this time. This is not something I have seen bandied about since the birth of Hisahito, however.
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