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  #101  
Old 11-01-2010, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiaraC View Post
I understand what you mean and I appreciate your explanation very much. And I think that the words by W. Scott Morton that you quote in your other post (The Japanese... are a product of a history driven by two opposing forces-the relentless march of cultural change and the steadfast desire to maintain tradition. The nearly ceaseless and often violent conflict between these forces has made the story of Japans traditional past a pageant unrivaled in the sweep of its human drama.) are, indeed, very much to the purpose.

But, I must say, if it is their idea of harmony to radically destroy everything that does not fit into their preconceived pattern I certainly dont share it. And although I am, of course, not qualified to say anything about the deeper meaning of ai (which, I suppose, would be harmony in Japanese) at least the European word harmony would agree with me. Harmonia is the daughter of the Greek goddess of love, Aphrodite, and the Greek god of war, Ares. So, harmony is created by the loving union of two adversary powers, not by the elimination of one of them. And you cannot make or produce it, you can only let it grow (or not).
"ai 愛" is "love" and "wa 和" as in 昭和 (showa) is "harmoney".
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  #102  
Old 11-01-2010, 07:41 PM
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People who've known the situations that Imperial wives have lived in have said that it's quite true to an actual biography. So I don't think that it's necessarily "rubbish." It's quite sympathetic to the woman who married into the Imperial Family.


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Originally Posted by iamtheoneandonly View Post
Oh, I see. Well, it sounds as if this book is full of rubbish about Masako or Michiko or whoever that no point for me to read it.

Thank you anyway for this info.
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  #103  
Old 11-02-2010, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
People who've known the situations that Imperial wives have lived in have said that it's quite true to an actual biography. So I don't think that it's necessarily "rubbish." It's quite sympathetic to the woman who married into the Imperial Family.
Oh, OK. Well, I do not know what to believe. Kasumi says that this Ben Hill's book is "full of gossips and inaccuracies."
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  #104  
Old 11-02-2010, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Kasumi View Post
I'm not sure if this is the wright thread for my question.
Does anyone know any details about CPss Masako's sisters Mrs Shibuya and Mrs Ikeda current life events? Do they have any children of their own, Masako's nephews?

And French Wikipedia refers the writer Jun Etou to be Masako's uncle
Jun Etō - Wikipédia
They say he has commited suiside in 1999. What a tragedy for the whole family...
Sorry for my clumsy English! I'd like to get some information about Masako's relatives.
Well, I am not sure about the accuracy of the information below but here we are.


Reiko Ikeda 池田 礼子 (8 July 1966, Geneva)


1973 April Baptised according to the rite of the Roman Catholic Church
(baptismal name, Madelainne)
1988 March Graduated from the Keio University (law BA)
1991 August Graduated from the University of Geneva (law MA)
1991 September Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
2000 October Married to Masahisa Ikeda in New York


Currently she is a mother of two children


Setsuko Shibuya 渋谷節子 (8 July 1966, Geneva)


1973 April Baptised according to the rite of the Roman Catholic Church
(baptismal name Marie)

Her late maternal grandfather was Yutaka Egashira, the head of the controversial Chisso Corporation which caused the Minamata Disease. The right wing people seem to focus on this Masako's connection with the company and asking her to appologise to the victims of the Minamata disease on behalf of her late maternal grandfather or whatever. They also point out the fact that Masako did not attend the Empress Nagako's funeral but did attend her controversial maternal grandfather's funeral etc according to what I have read. Aren't they petty ?
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  #105  
Old 11-02-2010, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kasumi View Post
I'm not sure if this is the wright thread for my question.
Does anyone know any details about CPss Masako's sisters Mrs Shibuya and Mrs Ikeda current life events? Do they have any children of their own, Masako's nephews?

And French Wikipedia refers the writer Jun Etou to be Masako's uncle
Jun Etō - Wikipédia
They say he has commited suiside in 1999. What a tragedy for the whole family...
Sorry for my clumsy English! I'd like to get some information about Masako's relatives.
Well, it seems as if it is true that Masako's relative Jun Eto whose real name was Atsuo Egashira committed suicide in 1999. Eto was born on 25 December 1932 and died on 21 July 1999 at the age of 66 shortly after his wife's death. He himself was suffering from some trauma after having had a stroke. He, apparently, slashed his wrist in his home bathroom in Kamakura and died.

Anyway, he was a nephew of Masako's maternal grandfather Yutaka Egashira. (Eto's father Takashi Egashira was a younger brother of Yutaka Egashira.) He was a literacy critique and a doctor of letters worked as a lecturer at the Keio University. He was well known for his research work in Kaishu Katsu and Soseki Natsume.

Initially he was a left wing but later became a right wing in politics and social issues.
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  #106  
Old 11-02-2010, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtheoneandonly View Post
...1973 April Baptised according to the rite of the Roman Catholic Church
(baptismal name Marie)
Masako's family were Catholic? I find that a bit surprising. Did Masako have to give up her religion to marry Naruhito?
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  #107  
Old 11-02-2010, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
...I believe that the Japanese is the only nation that has turned cruelty into the form of art (e.g., seppuku).
"Seppuku" was only allowed for the upper stratum of the samurai class such as the daimyos. Certainly the aristocracy in Kyoto (kuge公家) and the members of the imperial family did not have this tradition. In fact, the Chotei 朝廷 or the Imperial Court and its kuge 公家 class looked down on the samurai class because of their military nature. Neither the commoners (the farmer class or no農, the artisan class or ko工, the merchant class or sho商 and the untouchable or eta穢多 and hinin非人) were allowed to use this method of the death penalty.

The European world, too, had such cruel methods of capital punishment in the form of "hanged, drawn and quartered".

Japan also has this strange custom called muko yoshi 婿養子/muko tori kon 婿取婚 in which system a man marries his wife and takes up her surname. In this case, his wife's possition is superior to that of her husband.

Another thing is that it seems to be quite normal in Japan for wives to be in charge of their family money. Their husbands leave the domestic financial affairs entirely to their wives and beg their wives for their pocket money.

It's a very weird country, well, to me, anyway, but the latter bit is particularly very good indeed.
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  #108  
Old 11-02-2010, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
Masako's family were Catholic? I find that a bit surprising. Did Masako have to give up her religion to marry Naruhito?
Well, I do not know if Masako is/was a Roman Catholic or not. When the Crown Prince Akihito and Michiko Shoda got married, the Japanese media was speculating about Michiko's religious status because her grandfather Teiichiro Shoda was a Roman Catholic and so was her father Hidesaburo Shoda. However at that time the Japanese nation were told by the Kunai cho that Michiko had never been baptised. You know, the former Prime Minister of Japan Taro Aso is a Roman Catholic and the House of Aso is a Roman Catholic family. Well, Taro Aso's younger sister Nobuko (ne Aso) is married to the Prince Tomohito (who is the eldest son of the Prince Mikasa) but when they got married the media did not talk about Nobuko's religious background.

I also remember reading in one of Roman Catholic newspapers that, when Hirohito passed away and Akihito became the tenno, Michiko took a couple of RC women as her ladies-in-waiting. Oh, I just remembered that Yasuhiko Asaka (formerly 朝香宮鳩彦王 Asaka no miya Yasuhiko o or Prince Yasuhiko the Prince of Asaka) who was one of the members of the 11 imperial princely cadet houses 宮家 miya ke had to become plain Mr Yasuhiko Asaka in 1947 convereted into the Roman Catholic faith after the WWII.

I do not know why the Kunai cho is so hush hush about this sort of matter. Prince Henrik was Roman Catholic prior to getting married to the Queen Margrethe II and so was their son Joachin's wife Marie. Arexandra was an Anglican before she got married to Joachim. Henrik received a permission from the pope and Marie, too, got a permission and converted to the Lutheran faith. Alexandra, too, became Lutheran before her wedding. Princess Michael Kent did not convert to the Anglican faith when she was getting married to Prince Michael Kent that the prince lost his right of succession to the throne of the United Kingdom.

When you think about it, apart from the Princess Nagako (Nagako joo 良子女王), a daughter of Prince Kuniyoshi the Prince of Kuni (Kuni no miya Kuniyoshi o 久邇宮邦彦王), none of the empress consorts were of the Shinto religion initially. the Empress Sadako was a daughter of a noble man called the Prince Kujo (not an imperial prince) and the faith of the House of Kujo was Buddhism. the Empress Haruko (the wife of the Emperor Meiji) was from the princely House of Ichijo (again, non imperial prince) whose religion was also the Buddhist faith. They all followed the Shinto tradition after having married into the imperial family. So, I do not think it is such a big deal but, I guess, that the Japanese public still regard the Christian religion somehow "foreign" when the Buddhism is also a foreign import.
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  #109  
Old 11-03-2010, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by iamtheoneandonly View Post
...
iamtheoneandonly,
You make a lot of conclusions about the family situation, faith and backgrounds of the members of the Imperial family of Japan. Too many words and some Japanese kanji symbols.
Are there any links to prove your information, any reliable books or sources? Are you a close friend of the Imperial family member? Are you an Imperial palace stuff or an insider?
The provided info sounds weird to me before I shall be able to see any prooflinks.
Regards.
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  #110  
Old 11-03-2010, 05:36 AM
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Well, I do not make any conclusions re: the imperial family of Japan but just state what I have read and heard about them. I studied the Japanese history as well as the language that I have a bit of insight into the history of Japan. I also lived in Tokyo and experienced the life of everyday Japanese people. I still have some contacts with some Japanese people and luckily I have few Japanese friends here, too, that I can ask them few questions about Masako saga etc..

Is this OK with you ?

素顔の雅子さま 主婦と生活社
母宮貞明皇后とその時代 三笠宮両殿下が語る思い出
貞明皇后
四代の天皇と女性たち
陛下お尋ね申し上げます
入江相政日記
天皇家の戦い
天皇
朝日新聞「皇太后さまは権殿で拝礼へ 昭和天皇崩御から1年」
???????
]“~F‰Ž–“TF‚‚ŠL

and more.
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  #111  
Old 11-03-2010, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamtheoneandonly View Post
... I have few Japanese friends here, too, that I can ask them few questions about Masako saga etc..

Is this OK with you ?
...
???????
]~FƎTFقL
Thank you for your quick reply and for your commitment to 'the saga'.
Still I prefer to get acquainted with any reliable source on the matter. I mean not fictional or speculations. Any source in Japanese will do either.
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  #112  
Old 11-03-2010, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasumi View Post
Thank you for your quick reply and for your commitment to 'the saga'.
Still I prefer to get acquainted with any reliable source on the matter. I mean not fictional or speculations. Any source in Japanese will do either.
Can you read Japanese ? If you can, try these books. I wonder if you can get them in Ukraine .. .

素顔の雅子さま 主婦と生活社
母宮貞明皇后とその時代 三笠宮両殿下が語る思い出
貞明皇后
四代の天皇と女性たち
陛下お尋ね申し上げます
入江相政日記 This one in particular is good.
天皇家の戦い
天皇

c - - MSNYoj[X This site has some up-to-date information re: the imperial family, too.

???
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  #113  
Old 11-03-2010, 02:32 PM
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Thanks, I have these books in my little 'royal library' already. Not in Ukraine.
Thank you anyway.
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  #114  
Old 08-12-2011, 04:12 PM
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Relationship of crown couple/Prince&Princess Akishino

Lenora has asked in the „Succession Issues“-thread about
Quote:
the true relationship of two daughters-in-law of the Emperor,of Princess Masako and Kiko, if they get along well.
As an answer to this is mainly based on speculation I do not think that this matter deserves a thread of its own. Ill explain below why I decided to put it here. But if the mods should feel that this should better be somewhere else, please feel free to move it.

I remember having repeatedly read that the two princesses „do not get along well“ (if I come across it next time, Ill post a link) but none of the authors have ever explained how theyve come to know. (And the fact that Ive repeatedly read it is not necessarily meaningful – maybe one copied it from the other...) Of course, the princesses are supposed to be rivals in the competition of „who produces a male heir to the Japanese throne“ (which Kiko „won“) but nobody has ever been able to ascertain if the crown princess has felt grieved or rather relieved by the fact that her sister-in-law had taken the burden off her shoulders, so to speak. As for Kiko, she may have had lots of reasons for bearing Hisahito but I doubt that the wish to spite Masako has played much of a part for her, if at all. (I suppose that she wanted to please her husband and her parents-in-law, in the first place.) It is clear though that they are not intimate friends. If theyd regularly meet, just the two of them, to have tea and chat, I am sure wed know that. But I, for one, have never heard of an incident that proved a positive dislike between the two. The one hard fact that we do have is that their husbands did not seem the best of friends lately. This became shockingly clear to the public in 2004 when Prince Akishino criticized his elder brother for having defended his wife against the IHA. (And this is why I have put the answer to Lenoras question into this thread: that was basically the start of criticisms of the crown prince and princess.)

You may want to take a look at this blog where Masako and Kiko are compared or at this that deals with the rift between the brothers. (In both cases, just ignore the first part that deals with the journey - unless you might happen to be interested.)

Id like to add that I do not have the impression that the brothers have been getting along much better lately. It raised a lot of attention when Prince Akishino said last year when he turned 45 that he and his older brother had discussed the future of the royal family many times, adding ‘‘We must always think how we should exist to respond to the demands of the times.’’ So when the crown princes birthday arrived in February he was asked to comment. Link I will quote the question as well as the answer in full length as to give you an opportunity to take a look of your own at it.

Quote:
Question 5:
You said in last year's press conference, "While learning various things from the past, I would like to pursue the ideal role of the Imperial Family in the future." His Imperial Highness Prince Akishino also stated in the press conference on the occasion of his birthday last year that you have discussed the issue with him on several occasions. Since Her Imperial Highness Crown Princess Masako has been in recuperation, Your Imperial Highness has been attending a number of official duties by yourself, including visits to local regions. Please tell us, specifically, the vision of the Imperial Family in the future that you are pursuing with His Imperial Highness Prince Akishino, including the future role of Your Imperial Highness and Her Imperial Highness the Crown Princess in the official duties.

Answer 5:
Previously, I said that as new ideas about the needs for official duties naturally emerge in accordance with the changing times, it is important to consider official duties in such a way as to respond to new social needs, in accordance with these changes. That belief has not changed. Last year, I indicated water issues, environmental issues, and affairs concerning children and the elderly as areas of interest. But I am not limiting myself to these areas. I believe there will be social needs for new official duties in other areas as well, which I would like to deal with in a sincere manner.

With Prince Akishino, there are a number of occasions where there are opportunities to discuss various issues, and I intend to do so in the future as well.
Now if one wants to gather some meaning from anything a member of the IF says in public one has to be aware that they may spend a whole press conference without saying anything that seems to be at all remarkable or original. One could even say that it is that what usually happens... And that is not because they are stupid or dull (to the contrary, IMO ) but because they are so narrowly restricted in what they might say. (As you may have read in the blog, “They cannot say they like apples, because if they did, what would the orange growers say?”)

In order to understand what they want to say, one has to be aware that there are a lot of things that they cannot say, may they ever be so true. I usually compare what they do say to what they could have said. In this case: the crown prince could never have answered (even if there should be some truth in it): „I have never had a meaningful conversation with my brother on the role of the imperial family and I do not see why I should. My brother may have reasons of his own for pretending that I did.“
What he COULD have said instead would be, for example:
- „I have had indeed various discussions on the subject with my brother and was pleased to find that our opinions have much in common.“
- „I have had indeed various discussions on the subject with my brother and found his opinions quite interesting.“
- „I have had indeed various discussions on the subject with my brother and intend to have more in the future.“
- „I have discussed various issues with my brother, among them the role of the imperial family...“
- „I have discussed various issues with my brother...“
But what he, in fact, tells us, is that there were OPPORTUNITIES to discuss various issues, and we can only gather from the „as well“ in the second part of the sentence that the brothers have, in fact, made use of these opportunities (well, once, maybe...). While the crown prince takes great pains in letting us know that the question of new official duties is an issue that he has very much at heart (he even returns to the subject later in the press conference) he obviously does his very best to keep his brother out of it. He does not even so much as confirm that the role of the imperial family has actually been amongst those „various issues“ (that could have been the wheather, the blooming of the cherry trees, the health of the family etc) that the brothers have discussed (or did not discuss but had the opportunity to do so...)

IMO, it is absolutely impossible to express a lack of enthusiasm concerning a discussion with his brother on the monarchy more clearly than the crown prince does here, without being downright impolite. And this is why I think that the brothers are, still, not the best of friends, and as loyal wives, Princesses Masako and Kiko probably support their husbands.
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  #115  
Old 08-12-2011, 06:58 PM
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Wow.

All I can add to this is, ... that poor Woman.

She married a Man she loves; and because of his position has to put up with harsh, and cruel negativity.

It's times like these, when I read stuff like this that I "Thank the powers that be that I didn't get my Childhood wish to become a Princess"!

I wish her happiness, may she rise above all the critisism and one day find herself a respected Princess in her home country.

xoxosending her love
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  #116  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:00 PM
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I don't believe Masako did love Naruhito when she married him, although perhaps she does love him now. He has made it clear he is absolutely devoted to her.

However, when he first proposed, she was obviously reluctant. She already had a lover, and a career she valued, and had no wish to become part of the Imperial family. I think she acquiesced more as a matter of duty, since he loved her so much that he was unwilling to accept any alternative match. JMO.
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  #117  
Old 08-14-2011, 05:14 AM
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I agree with you concerning her not being in love with him before they married. I mean, they had met only a few times before they got engaged! (Although I have to admit that, for him, that seems to have been quite sufficient... )

Of course, none of us are in a position to know for sure, there is a lot left to speculation concerning that matter. I have heard people say that they believe she was forced into marrying him by the pressure exerted on her family. (Not a good reputation indeed of being the family of the young lady who turned down the crown prince...) I, in contrast, think that before the wedding she liked him and respected him and that she had already made the experience that they really enjoyed talking together, about any- and everything. (Something that she mentioned later in a press conference as one of the highlights of their relationship.) But what won her over at last was IMO the prince succeeding in convincing her that she would be able to use her professional diplomatic skills as crown princess and in this way serve her country even more effectively. Well...
(I suppose it COULD have worked if only she had gotten pregnant in the first years of their marriage...In fact, it did work during the first 1 years. Basically until the Kobe earthquake.)

But on a lighter note, I do have the impression that Princess Masako loves her husband by now. I always like to see how they smile at each other.
Here is a very nice collage of pics, mainly showing the Crown Prince and Princess together at various times.
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  #118  
Old 08-26-2011, 05:28 PM
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The way things have gone have led me to believe that the Prince marrying Masako was a disaster. I feel sorry for all involved.
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  #119  
Old 08-26-2011, 05:40 PM
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I think that we'll have to wait and see what happens when the current Emperor dies to see whether it's a disaster or not.


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The way things have gone have led me to believe that the Prince marrying Masako was a disaster. I feel sorry for all involved.
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  #120  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:15 PM
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Usually I would agree with you but I think we can see the writing on the wall with this one.

If the Emperor dies, I think we will see more of a pull between the Crown Prince and the IHA and Masako being one in the middle AGAIN. She is his weakness (based on his love and devotion to her). If they want to get to him, all they have to do is more of the same.

Considering how the Empress was treated by the IHA and her mother in law, I am really surprised that the Emperor has saw on the side lines while pretty much let the same thing being done to Masako. Which goes to show IMO how much power the IHA has.
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