Succession in Jordan at the time of King Hussein's Death: Why Was it Changed?

[sommone]

Originally Posted by papillon

Nice to hear from you, SafaaBatin. Love reading first-hand accounts from people in Jordan.

Me too! Welcome to TRF.

[sommone]

I just went and read the letter KH wrote to Prince Hassan...so basically, Hassan was passed over for King because He disagreed with the establishment of a succession council and who should be his successor once it came time for him to step down from being King? Also, Hassan was made Crown Prince because of an amendment to the Jordanian constitution? Well, at least His Majesty loved his brother even though he bypassed him for King. I also wonder if showing his love and appreciation helped to take a little of the sting out of being bypassed for King.

[shelley]

I cannot imgine someone as savvy as Prince Hassan would really care about the actual title and position of being King of Jordan, a pretty poisoned chalice at the best of times. I think what was very unpleasant were the slurs and mud slinging that went along with the change which was totally uneccessary, (especially as P. Alia says, P. Hassan offered to stand down more than once) and the way he has been side lined from any involvement in a country he helped build and to which he could still contribute so much.

[sommone]

Originally Posted by shelley

I cannot imgine someone as savvy as Prince Hassan would really care about the actual title and position of being King of Jordan, a pretty poisoned chalice at the best of times. I think what was very unpleasant were the slurs and mud slinging that went along with the change which was totally uneccessary, (especially as P. Alia says, P. Hassan offered to stand down more than once) and the way he has been side lined from any involvement in a country he helped build and to which he could still contribute so much.

Then I think that P. Hassan past resignations should have been honored...at least let the man exist with some grace and dignity...not saying he didn't have any grace and dignity when he was bypassed, but I wonder if it didn't hurt some. Also, it is wrong for P. Hassan not to be allowed involvement in Jordan because of the fallout from the succession. Didn't King Hussein say something about his talents being need for other things concerning Jordan?

[igniya]

I have followed all the posts here about Prince Hassan and would just like to add one more thing about Prince Hassan here that no seems to have mentioned. From what I have heard, he is a very kind,loving husband and father.

[maryshawn]

Originally Posted by papillon

Well, it seems KA has already reneged on the promise to treat QN well. So I wouldn't bet on him to honor the other half of his agreement. :(

Sorry, Mary Shawn, I just don't agree with your characterization of the succession change as the "safest option." I think it was fraught with danger for the region, for Jordan, for the people of Jordan, for the JRF, for KA, and for P. Hassan and his family. I remember reading newspaper reports in the States about concerns there would be rioting in the streets of Amman and other towns in Jordan, bloodshed, and possible coup attempts over the change in succession. I think it was a very risky (and, frankly, ill advised) move on KH's part. Jordan has been one of the more stable countries in the region. I shudder to think what might have happened there and throughout the region had P. Hassan not had the good judgement and class to go quietly into the night.

Good points all. Did you know that on the ride to the plane to Mayo after new succession had been announced, QR asked QN if there would be a coup against her husband and rioting? She was VERY worried about it.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by igniya

I have followed all the posts here about Prince Hassan and would just like to add one more thing about Prince Hassan here that no seems to have mentioned. From what I have heard, he is a very kind,loving husband and father.

In keeping with with you say here, I feel I have to put forward something that has been discussed by people I know who are interested in what finally precipitated the change, and often end up discussing it, as for them the whole business is one of life's mysteries. The late king was brave, dashing, charismatic, generous, intelligent, wily, street wise, sometimes rash and certainly a risk taker. So there were good and not so good facets to his character, which meant he was human, not a demigod. And so, is it not possible, that underneath his undoubted love and pride in a brother whom for years and years he regarded as the light of his life , his other half etc ( phrases he actually never used about a wife ) there could have also been a teensy weensy bit of pure old sibing jealousy ? Here was a younger brother who had done better educationally ( to be fair, it was Q. Zein who was responsible for this. And she was the wife of choice of K. Talal who believed in education, and was herself educated at a French run convent, unusual for an Arab woman of her time - Hussein had the perhaps questionable privilege of having his educational pattern mapped out by a reactionary grandfather. The minute K. Abdullah I died, Hussein was sent to school in England, but perhaps too late to really benefit). Hassan had a stable marriage, and 'Alhamdulliah' as the Arabs would say, he had a small, cohesive family, and succesful, non problem children who got on with their lives, all graduates, who made good, normal marriages etc. He was a better sportsman ( the late king enjoyed a lot a machine linked sports - fast cars and motor bikes and go carts, water skiing, but not ones where he himself would have to perform). And although P. Hassan always kept himself out of the limelight, the late king knew almost better than anyone else how much of the sheer grunt work of creating modern Jordan had in fact been achieved through Hassan's efforts ( although no-one should underestimate the wisdom and initital self confidence of the elder brother in recognising the potential of the younger one, and allowing him the freedom and space to do what he did ). So as Liz Taylor once said, 'I never broke up a happy marriage', maybe there was a little chink there that was perhaps was the opening that various interested parties could build on and benefit from. For there is no doubt that had Hassan become king, his many talents would be more generally known, and obviously he would have had a freer hand to build on what he had already achieved the in areas of economy, health, education, and general infra- structure of the country, and peace- building. Combined with his other skills and talents, dare I say it, he might have even better king and role model for a modern country than his predecessor. If Hassan had indeed not had the ability and personality that he has clearly has , there is no way that he would still command the respect and affection he does, and be in such demand world wide, as pure and simple Prince Hassan , not His Royal Highness the Crown Prince of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. I don't see any other royal family member doing the same. Imagine if those skills were being put to use as a head of state in the made, bad world we live in ? I realise I am saying something very controversial...but then, we are occasionally controversial here in TRF, are we not ? At least, it is food for thought. :) And I think I am on topic !

[Veram98]

Why did P. Hassan accept a “credit” of 30 millions of US Dollars by Ahmad Chalabi’s then existing Petra bank in the 1980s (and for what)?
The most renowned newspaper of Germany (the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung) published Thursday a long article (“Ich bin kein Engel”: I am not an angel) on Chalabi (obviously a rather shady person) highlighting among many other things Chalabi’s friendship with P. Hassan (still existing) and their political co-operation (still recently in Iraq, in conjunction with the Neo-cons in the USA), showing the Jordanian prince in a rather unfavorably light (and it has nothing to do with Jordan’s succession question of 1999). The article’s author (W. Köhler) is a ME expert among German political journalists and has been living in the region for many years.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by Veram98

Why did P. Hassan accept a “credit” of 30 millions of US Dollars by Ahmad Chalabi’s then existing Petra bank in the 1980s (and for what)?
The most renowned newspaper of Germany (the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung) published Thursday a long article (“Ich bin kein Engel”: I am not an angel) on Chalabi (obviously a rather shady person) highlighting among many other things Chalabi’s friendship with P. Hassan (still existing) and their political co-operation (still recently in Iraq, in conjunction with the Neo-cons in the USA), showing the Jordanian prince in a rather unfavorably light (and it has nothing to do with Jordan’s succession question of 1999). The article’s author (W. Köhler) is a ME expert among German political journalists and has been living in the region for many years.

This is Mr. Chalabi's version of events, and as everyone has some doubt on the veracity of most things Chalabi says, why do they chose to believe this item of information from his sources. I have read, and will try and find again, a explanation in the press of this point from Prince Hassan in which he clearly said that he did indeed take a loan of 4 million JD over a period of 9 years at a time when there was a shortage of liquidity in the Jordanian Royal Court fianaces, and this loan was taken with the late King's knowledge, to fund certain official projetcs. ( the late King himself also was obliged to take loans from from banks as well during this period). The loan was paid back in full . Prince Hassan was not alone in taking a loan, openly , from a recognised registered bank. Prince Raad bin Zeid was also was in a similar position as were other members of the royal family. Just for the record, in case you are not aware of the fact, P. Hassan was in no way responsible for Chalabi's leaving Jordan. He was driven out in the boot of the car of a woman called Tamara Sadoun who subsequently spent time in jail in Amman for her part in the whole procedure. Much calumny has been heaped on P. Hassan recently but none of it has stuck and not least any accusation of financial wrongdoing at any point. And for someone who was for years deeply involved in the financial matters of his country, and had many opportunities to feather his nest, that in itself is quite an achievement, especially in the Middle East.

Ragarding the writer of the article's remark about P. Hassan's friendship with Chalabi. I have no doubt that when Chalabi was living in Jordan that they could have been friends. Chalabi;s financial peccadillos had not surfaced, and he was well recieved by many people in Jordan. His family has for generations been closely linked with the Royal Family in Iraq, and were a well educated and cultured . Chalabi himself was a MIT graduate and I believe has siblings who went to Oxbridge. In this he was similar to many of the expatriate ancien regime Iraqis who are to be found in Amman, London and Paris. What united all of these people was total and utter dislike for Saddam Hussein from day one of his regime, even when there were those in the West who thought that he might be an effective counter-balance to the Mullahs in Iran. . In this, many of them found a kindred spirit in P. Hassan who never hid his dislike and distrust of the Iraqi dictator. K. Hussein on the other hand did not share this view in its totality, and went to the extent of developing personal relations a familial level with Saddam and his family, something which was looked at askance by many of the Iraqis. P. Hassan was perhaps too rigid by some lights, in that he firmly believed in keeping business and pleasure separate, and so it was that his wife and daughters never ever met Mr. and Mrs. Saddam, Mr and Mrs Arafat, Mr and Mrs Hafez Assad, or their families. I have to say that I rather respect this attitude.

[sommone]

Originally Posted by shelley

In keeping with with you say here, I feel I have to put forward something that has been discussed by people I know who are interested in what finally precipitated the change, and often end up discussing it, as for them the whole business is one of life's mysteries. The late king was brave, dashing, charismatic, generous, intelligent, wily, street wise, sometimes rash and certainly a risk taker. So there were good and not so good facets to his character, which meant he was human, not a demigod. And so, is it not possible, that underneath his undoubted love and pride in a brother whom for years and years he regarded as the light of his life , his other half etc ( phrases he actually never used about a wife ) there could have also been a teensy weensy bit of pure old sibing jealousy ? Here was a younger brother who had done better educationally ( to be fair, it was Q. Zein who was responsible for this. And she was the wife of choice of K. Talal who believed in education, and was herself educated at a French run convent, unusual for an Arab woman of her time - Hussein had the perhaps questionable privilege of having his educational pattern mapped out by a reactionary grandfather. The minute K. Abdullah I died, Hussein was sent to school in England, but perhaps too late to really benefit). Hassan had a stable marriage, and 'Alhamdulliah' as the Arabs would say, he had a small, cohesive family, and succesful, non problem children who got on with their lives, all graduates, who made good, normal marriages etc. He was a better sportsman ( the late king enjoyed a lot a machine linked sports - fast cars and motor bikes and go carts, water skiing, but not ones where he himself would have to perform). And although P. Hassan always kept himself out of the limelight, the late king knew almost better than anyone else how much of the sheer grunt work of creating modern Jordan had in fact been achieved through Hassan's efforts ( although no-one should underestimate the wisdom and initital self confidence of the elder brother in recognising the potential of the younger one, and allowing him the freedom and space to do what he did ). So as Liz Taylor once said, 'I never broke up a happy marriage', maybe there was a little chink there that was perhaps was the opening that various interested parties could build on and benefit from. For there is no doubt that had Hassan become king, his many talents would be more generally known, and obviously he would have had a freer hand to build on what he had already achieved the in areas of economy, health, education, and general infra- structure of the country, and peace- building. Combined with his other skills and talents, dare I say it, he might have even better king and role model for a modern country than his predecessor. If Hassan had indeed not had the ability and personality that he has clearly has , there is no way that he would still command the respect and affection he does, and be in such demand world wide, as pure and simple Prince Hassan , not His Royal Highness the Crown Prince of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. I don't see any other royal family member doing the same. Imagine if those skills were being put to use as a head of state in the made, bad world we live in ? I realise I am saying something very controversial...but then, we are occasionally controversial here in TRF, are we not ? At least, it is food for thought. :) And I think I am on topic !

Oh yes, we definitely get controversial on here.

[sommone]

That darn sibling rivalry!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by sommone

That darn sibling rivalry!

So do you go along with my theory ? It gives an intersting twist to events !

[sommone]

Originally Posted by shelley

So do you go along with my theory ? It gives an intersting twist to events !

Your theory does put a spin on things, Shelley...It is definitely one of many possibilities, and like you said, the Jordanian succession is a mystery. Sibling rivaly could have played a part, and it would be really petty if it had, but unfortunately we will never really know...The only thing we have to go by is the letter that the King wrote to his brother.

[papillon]

Originally Posted by shelley

And so, is it not possible, that underneath his undoubted love and pride in a brother whom for years and years he regarded as the light of his life , his other half etc ( phrases he actually never used about a wife ) there could have also been a teensy weensy bit of pure old sibing jealousy ?

I've thought this, too, Shelley. It seems to me that KH's legacy would have been dimmed by having a successor who could have so easily and readily outshined him. In light of all the KH legacy spinning since his death (e.g., QN's memoirs and promotional tour), it seems to me that legacy was a big darned deal to him and the QN branch of his large family. P. Hassan, with his excellent education, his years of experience as C.P., his established relationships, etc., would have been able to hit the ground running at full speed, and he is also still young enough to have made a rather large and impressive mark. I think, in some ways, from KH's standpoint, P. Hassan was just too good to be true, accomplished, well connected and regarded, too clean in his dealings, upright, and solid as a human being and a family man. It had to be at least a little threatening to him, for if P. Hassan had become king and then cleaned up a lot of messes, built a truly modern Jordan, improved the economy and the living conditions of the Jordanian people, solved the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, held the extended family together, and continued to love his wife and children as he has, it would stand in stark contrast to anything KH had accomplished. In that sense, KA was the "safer" pick, for he is not so educated, brought little experience and preparation for the role with him, is young and unseasoned, and is having to learn on the job, all the while not really having the full respect of the wealthier nations. So, yes, I think this is a very viable theory, and utterly on topic here.

The real shame is that KH couldn't overcome his own insecurities and choose the best person for the job. I still say we'd all be better off.

And, gee, meow about the parenthetical winking phrase! (Sorry, Shelley, had to stick it to you after someone earlier this week doubted your ability to be catty!)

[papillon]

Originally Posted by maryshawn

Good points all. Did you know that on the ride to the plane to Mayo after new succession had been announced, QR asked QN if there would be a coup against her husband and rioting? She was VERY worried about it.

I think she probably was justified in her worries.

[papillon]

Originally Posted by shelley

This is Mr. Chalabi's version of events, and as everyone has some doubt on the veracity of most things Chalabi says, why do they chose to believe this item of information from his sources.

Ahmad Chalabi is a known liar. As the saying goes, do you know how to tell when he's lying? His lips are moving. :(

[tania]

Originally Posted by papillon

I've thought this, too, Shelley. It seems to me that KH's legacy would have been dimmed by having a successor who could have so easily and readily outshined him. In light of all the KH legacy spinning since his death (e.g., QN's memoirs and promotional tour), it seems to me that legacy was a big darned deal to him and the QN branch of his large family. P. Hassan, with his excellent education, his years of experience as C.P., his established relationships, etc., would have been able to hit the ground running at full speed, and he is also still young enough to have made a rather large and impressive mark. I think, in some ways, from KH's standpoint, P. Hassan was just too good to be true, accomplished, well connected and regarded, too clean in his dealings, upright, and solid as a human being and a family man. It had to be at least a little threatening to him, for if P. Hassan had become king and then cleaned up a lot of messes, built a truly modern Jordan, improved the economy and the living conditions of the Jordanian people, solved the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, held the extended family together, and continued to love his wife and children as he has, it would stand in stark contrast to anything KH had accomplished. In that sense, KA was the "safer" pick, for he is not so educated, brought little experience and preparation for the role with him, is young and unseasoned, and is having to learn on the job, all the while not really having the full respect of the wealthier nations. So, yes, I think this is a very viable theory, and utterly on topic here.

The real shame is that KH couldn't overcome his own insecurities and choose the best person for the job. I still say we'd all be better off.

And, gee, meow about the parenthetical winking phrase! (Sorry, Shelley, had to stick it to you after someone earlier this week doubted your ability to be catty!)

One should not forget Shelly that King Hussein loved Jordan and it's people dearly and so I very much doubt that he would let his jealousy(if there was any) have a major affect on his country. I do agree with you though that Prince Hassan would have made a great King just like his late brother.

[papillon]

Originally Posted by tania

One should not forget Shelly that King Hussein loved Jordan and it's people dearly and so I very much doubt that he would let his jealousy(if there was any) have a major affect on his country. I do agree with you though that Prince Hassan would have made a great King just like his late brother.

Well, people are complicated and not always 100% logical, rational beings. I think it's possible for KH to have loved Jordan and his people and still felt insecure vis-a-vis his brother.

[Safaa Batin]

Originally Posted by papillon

Well, people are complicated and not always 100% logical, rational beings. I think it's possible for KH to have loved Jordan and his people and still felt insecure vis-a-vis his brother.

I do not think it was the jealousy, else why it worked only at the last days? king hussain was able to change the crown prince at any time during the long period in which prince hassan was the crown prince. king Hussain leads jordan for nearly 50 years in very difficult period in the arab world history, if he was not logical and if was acting according to his emotions he won't be the successful king that he was.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by Safaa Batin

I do not think it was the jealousy, else why it worked only at the last days? king hussain was able to change the crown prince at any time during the long period in which prince hassan was the crown prince. king Hussain leads jordan for nearly 50 years in very difficult period in the arab world history, if he was not logical and if was acting according to his emotions he won't be the successful king that he was.

I didn't say it pure and simple jealousy. I agree that the late king led Jordan for many tricky years, and for at least two thirds of them, ably assisted and supported by his brother, who basically he loved deeply, certainly more than any son except perhaps Hamzah when he came along. Which is why for when people would bring up the succession issue he brushed them off harshly, even as late as August 1998. But he was a very ill man for the last few months of his life. And he was human. If anyone knew that occasionally there were even slightly ambvialant emotions towards his brother as he faced up to his own mortality, this was the time to exploit it, as people under the sort of treatment he was undergoing are very vulnerable, and it is known that they can end up beling hostile towards the people they love the most. This is an accepted medcial fact of chemotherapy. And the conflicting messages of that final letter bear out this ambivalance clearly, at least as far as I can see. I know for many Jordanians, their king was a larger than life hero, and rightly so for many reasons, but as I keep saying, he was man, not a plaster saint, and even the best of men have their Achilles heel.