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View Poll Results: Do You Think King Hussein Made the "Right" Succession Decision?
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  #321  
Old 01-19-2006, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closesttoheaven

is it maybe that jordanian people wanted prince ali the CP because he is full arab - and so there are rumours - that he was a crown prince?
I think that's true. Thats one thing I've noticed about some Jordanians who like various members of the JRF. They tend to believe what they want, a lot of that is often based on rumours and gossip than fact. Its quite odd.
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  #322  
Old 01-19-2006, 03:33 PM
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PAli has never been CP. For a short while he was something like a possible future CP of a king Hassan.

The Jordanian constitution (of 1952; there were no changes in 1999) only says the following: “No person shall ascend the Throne unless he is a Moslem, mentally sound and born by a legitimate wife and of Moslem parents“ (not Arab parents!). Thus King, then Prince Abdullah could be the CP in the first three years of his life. Before 1965 he was even the only constitutional heir to the throne: “The Royal title shall pass from the holder of the Throne to his eldest son, and to the eldest son of that son and in linear succession by a similar process thereafter. Should the eldest son die before the Throne devolves upon him, his eldest son shall inherit the Throne, despite the existence of brothers to the deceased son.”
This article of the constitution was amended in 1965: “The King may, however, select one of his brothers as heir apparent. In this event, title to the Throne shall pass to him from the holder of the Throne”. With this amendment KH wanted to handle a dangerous situation for the dynasty (Humera and others already described this situation). KH selected immediately PHassan as CP. PHassan hold this position until January 1999 without any interruption.

In the late seventies, when PAli was obviously his father’s favorite son for a while, KH sent a letter to his CP Hassan proposing PAli as a future CP (to a king Hassan). PRashid was not born yet (under the regulations of the constitution the only possible heir of a king Hassan by the way). But KH obviously didn’t follow up, because he never changed the constitution in favor of other sons than the eldest (not even for his next favorite and 4th son PHamzah).

Look at Chapter 4 of the constitution:

http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/const_ch4.html
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  #323  
Old 01-19-2006, 03:37 PM
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Maybe some of the Jordanian members should read again the letter, their late king sent in January 1999 to his brother (when he dismissed him as CP):

“More than thirty years ago, I entrusted you with the position of crown prince, and you have accomplished the task entrusted to you with diligence, enthusiasm and resolve that knows no fatigue or failure. …
I entrusted you with the post of crown prince and I was, with the will of God, responsible for that decision at the time, at a time when the eldest son of the King had not reached the age defined by the Constitution to allow him to assume responsibility in case the King had died by the will of God.
At that time, a dark atmosphere was affecting the whole nation because dangers, rumours and speculation were rife concerning the imminent end of Jordan, a country with a mission, principles and morals, and a true affiliation to the nation.
At the time, we were forced to introduce an amendment to Article 28 of the Constitution so that a brother of the King could assume the post of the Crown Prince …”

And concerning the new situation in 1999:

“… I have found that to take a decision, I must refer to the original Constitutional rule, where I find that all conditions that originally dictated the exception have passed, and that, therefore, His Royal Highness Prince Abdullah would, in such a case, immediately assume all duties and responsibilities as the Crown Prince of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan”.

http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/speeches_letters.html
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  #324  
Old 01-19-2006, 05:22 PM
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Oh well I am bad at history and I imagine things! ehm
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  #325  
Old 01-19-2006, 05:34 PM
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ok here's what I found...
A palace source informed the Mideast News that several years ago the king sent a letter to Crown Prince Hassan stating his wish that Ali should be the next crown prince. However, he may have changed his mind as Prince Hamze's star rose and his popularity soar while Ali developed a reputation as something of a playboy. The royal council could be a stormy affair. One source said its members would include Hassan and Hamze, Abdullah and Ali.

http://www.mideastnews.com/Hussein11.htm
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  #326  
Old 01-19-2006, 05:36 PM
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Changing lines of succession is a time-honored Hashemite tradition. The late Hussein changed crown princes four times (from his brother Muhammad, to his infant son Abdullah, to his second brother Hassan, and again to his then-grown-up son Abdullah) and he changed the overall line on other occasions, too. In this light, the decision to strip Hamzeh of the succession and award it, by default, to Abdullah's own direct descendants was probably inevitable

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/t...5.php?CID=2192

This is embarassing,lol,I can't believe I dunno the history of my own country! :">
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  #327  
Old 01-19-2006, 06:32 PM
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What is the situation in Jordan now? Is there a new CP? I read in someone´s post that PAli was named regent while KA was out of the country. Is PA the new CP?
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  #328  
Old 01-19-2006, 07:59 PM
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Prince Ali, Prince Feisal, Prince Hashem, and Prince Hamzah have all served as regent recently.
No one has been named Crown Prince since Prince Hamzah lost the title.
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  #329  
Old 01-19-2006, 11:46 PM
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Now, it's clearer since KH asked that Ali be named CP if and when Hassan took the thrown. That makes better sense because I had a hard time trying to figure out how in the world was it possible for Ali to be CP if PH was CP.
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  #330  
Old 01-22-2006, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveabujalilah
hi everybody , i am a new member from Jordan

i totally agree with Suria, because i remember that i read it somewhere by my own eyes when i was in School i wish if i can get that paper , it was history as Suria said , and suddenly they changed it , Hassan was a CP , and PA was the one after him ,

BTW I LOVE PA SOOOOOOOO MUCH HE IS THE CUTEST ,

this is for you Suria , i may be love PA more than you... :p thank you for your great photos


OMG finally some one read what i read so its not only me

which grade this was , fifth or the fourth BTW dose this mean that your age is 23 :p

it would my pleasure that you love Ali that much , he deserves nothing but love

BTW welcome to the thread:)
oh dose your signature talks about PA
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  #331  
Old 01-22-2006, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
Now, it's clearer since KH asked that Ali be named CP if and when Hassan took the thrown. That makes better sense because I had a hard time trying to figure out how in the world was it possible for Ali to be CP if PH was CP.
exactly , what we need is a proof and am gonna find it

i found this interveiw with KA when he was a CP


"That is what binds us together, Palestinians and Bedouins and everyone else," he said, sitting next to his half brother, the 23-year-old Prince Ali, who was once seen as his father's most likely successor.
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:...n+prince&hl=ar
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  #332  
Old 01-22-2006, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil Monkey
Maybe we have been toough wrong stuff!! LOL
But I remember I took at school that when PA was born KH named him CP (but it was for a very short time),then he put Hassan,I also remember hearing that prince Hassan loved Ali so much and he promised to make him CP (that's before Rashid was Born!)
Anyway,cuz I am getting too old my memory isn't helping much,so dunno,LOL
you have a good memory , as we notice only Jordanians knew that, everybody else read about Jordan from out side

i have this paper .... which say that PA was the CP after PHassan for a while, removing him was CONCERTED from people who hated QA and her children

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Jordan/jordan3.htm

3) Lieutenant-Colonel H.R.H. Prince 'Ali bin al-Hussein, KCVO (6.11.2001). b. at Amman, 23rd December 1975 (s/o Queen 'Aliya), educ. Papplewick Prep. Sch., Ascot; Islamic Scientific Coll., Amman; Salisbury Sch. and Deerfield Acad., Massachusetts; RMA, Sandhurst; Princeton Univ., New Jersey, and Columbia Univ., Washington DC, USA. Cmsnd. 2nd Lieut. Jordan Arab Army Special Forces. 9/12/1994, Chief Cdr. the King's Special Security Force 2001. Appointed Deputy Crown Prince, 8th June 1978. Hon. Presdt. Al-Jeel Al-Jadeed Club (to promote Circassian culture in Jordan), Jordan Football Assoc., Prince 'Ali Club for the Deaf and Mute, and Royal Jordanian Paratroopers Club. Rcvd: GC of the Orders of Hussein ibn 'Ali, and the Star of Jordan, Dannebrog of Denmark (27.4.1998), Norwegian Order of Merit (4.4.2000), Polar Star of Sweden (7.10.2003), etc. m. at Paris, France, 23rd April 2004 (nikah) and at the Bait al-Barakat Palace, Amman, 7th September 2004 (zifaf), H.R.H. Princess Rym (b. 1969), educ. Univ. of Paris (MLit, Dip. Advanced Studies in Political Science), and Columbia Univ., New York, sometime employee of the BBC French Service, UPI, Dubai TV and Bloomberg TV, news correspondent for CNN since 1998, daughter of H.E. Dr Lakhdar Brahimi, sometime Algerian Minister for Foreign Affairs, Assist. Sec-Gen of the UN and UN Special Representative to Haiti, South Africa, Zaire, Yemen, Liberia, Afghanistan, and Iraq, by his wife, a lady of Croatian descent. He has issue, one daughter:
  • a) H.R.H. Princess Jalila bint 'Ali. b. at Amman, 16th September 2005.

and this one too ..

In June 1978, Hussein designated Prince Ali (b. 1975), his son from his third wife (Queen Alia, who was killed in a helicopter crash in February 1977) to succeed Hasan as heir apparent on the latter's succession to the throne.

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:...n+prince&hl=ar
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  #333  
Old 01-22-2006, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suria
OMG finally some one read what i read so its not only me

which grade this was , fifth or the fourth BTW dose this mean that your age is 23 :p

it would my pleasure that you love Ali that much , he deserves nothing but love

BTW welcome to the thread:)
oh dose your signature talks about PA

no its not only you i am 25 and i am sure of this data , i think it was the fourth grade ... it was studied for a while

sure i mean PA who else could be
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  #334  
Old 01-22-2006, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveabujalilah
you have a good memory , as we notice only Jordanians knew that, everybody else read about Jordan from out side

i have this paper .... which say that PA was the CP after PHassan for a while, removing him was CONCERTED from people who hated QA and her children

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Jordan/jordan3.htm

3) Lieutenant-Colonel H.R.H. Prince 'Ali bin al-Hussein, KCVO (6.11.2001). b. at Amman, 23rd December 1975 (s/o Queen 'Aliya), educ. Papplewick Prep. Sch., Ascot; Islamic Scientific Coll., Amman; Salisbury Sch. and Deerfield Acad., Massachusetts; RMA, Sandhurst; Princeton Univ., New Jersey, and Columbia Univ., Washington DC, USA. Cmsnd. 2nd Lieut. Jordan Arab Army Special Forces. 9/12/1994, Chief Cdr. the King's Special Security Force 2001. Appointed Deputy Crown Prince, 8th June 1978. Hon. Presdt. Al-Jeel Al-Jadeed Club (to promote Circassian culture in Jordan), Jordan Football Assoc., Prince 'Ali Club for the Deaf and Mute, and Royal Jordanian Paratroopers Club. Rcvd: GC of the Orders of Hussein ibn 'Ali, and the Star of Jordan, Dannebrog of Denmark (27.4.1998), Norwegian Order of Merit (4.4.2000), Polar Star of Sweden (7.10.2003), etc. m. at Paris, France, 23rd April 2004 (nikah) and at the Bait al-Barakat Palace, Amman, 7th September 2004 (zifaf), H.R.H. Princess Rym (b. 1969), educ. Univ. of Paris (MLit, Dip. Advanced Studies in Political Science), and Columbia Univ., New York, sometime employee of the BBC French Service, UPI, Dubai TV and Bloomberg TV, news correspondent for CNN since 1998, daughter of H.E. Dr Lakhdar Brahimi, sometime Algerian Minister for Foreign Affairs, Assist. Sec-Gen of the UN and UN Special Representative to Haiti, South Africa, Zaire, Yemen, Liberia, Afghanistan, and Iraq, by his wife, a lady of Croatian descent. He has issue, one daughter:
  • a) H.R.H. Princess Jalila bint 'Ali. b. at Amman, 16th September 2005.
and this one too ..

In June 1978, Hussein designated Prince Ali (b. 1975), his son from his third wife (Queen Alia, who was killed in a helicopter crash in February 1977) to succeed Hasan as heir apparent on the latter's succession to the throne.

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:...n+prince&hl=ar

thank you for your efforts , this is what i was talking about , PA once was the CP after PHassan , i wish if i can find teh paper we took in the school
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  #335  
Old 01-22-2006, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveabujalilah
no its not only you i am 25 and i am sure of this data , i think it was the fourth grade ... it was studied for a while

sure i mean PA who else could be
you got his eyes right , his pure look , i hope that Jalilah is looking like him or at least that she has his eyes
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  #336  
Old 01-22-2006, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveabujalilah
Appointed Deputy Crown Prince, 8th June 1978.
the key word here is Deputy. Which means he was a representative/deputy of the Crown Prince Hassan, not the Crown prince himself. You can't have two CPs at the same time.

Definition of deputy:
an assistant with power to act when his superior is absent
a person appointed to represent or act on behalf of others
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&lr...=define:deputy

It means Ali could act on authority of CP Hassan in his absence. Just like a Deputy Prime Minister acts on behalf of the Prime Minister.

Quote:
In June 1978, Hussein designated Prince Ali (b. 1975), his son from his third wife (Queen Alia, who was killed in a helicopter crash in February 1977) to succeed Hasan as heir apparent on the latter's succession to the throne.
Exactly. He was designated as a successor to the Crown Prince Hassan. He wasn't the CP himself. The two things are quite different. Just like Prince Charles, as Prince of Wales is Queen Elizabeth's heir. Prince William is Charles' successor but he's not the Prince of Wales himself.

Prince Ali would have become CP if King Hussein had died in 1978 and Prince Hassan had become King.
But we know this didnt happen because King Hussein went on to marry Noor and Hamzah became his favourite.
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  #337  
Old 01-23-2006, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closesttoheaven
I never read anything about that - in no biography about king hussein - there was always PH called the crown prince ...


is it maybe that jordanian people wanted prince ali the CP because he is full arab - and so there are rumours - that he was a crown prince?
(sorry but I have to add that I think thats a very bad reason to want him become king - because arab is arab - even when only one parent is arab - that doesnt say anything about the persons character)

I dun get it ...
iam from egypt and we all know that prince ali was a crown prince. and i read this in alot of books and u can find it in arabtimes
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  #338  
Old 01-23-2006, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closesttoheaven
I dun wanna say - that you or me are wrong... i dunno!
but if there was another crown prince - for example prince ali - thats an important historical fact - and such facts are mentioned anywhere ...
and you can find nothing about it - not in any encyclopedia - nor wikipedia - or any biography.
and historians dun miss such an important fact?!
that makes it unbelievable to me!
there is a famous writer mohamed hasanian hekal wrote this fact that prince ali was a crown prince in a book its name is kalaam fe elseyasa. i dunno how 2 translate its name كلام في السياسة
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  #339  
Old 01-23-2006, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmarina
there is a famous writer mohamed hasanian hekal wrote this fact that prince ali was a crown prince in a book its name is kalaam fe elseyasa. i dunno how 2 translate its name كلام في السياسة
read the posts...!
a famous writer is no journalist and no historian.
there is no historical document where prince ali is the crown prince.
maybe it helps more - if you read KH last letter to his brother PH.
there he wrote PH was crown prince about 30 years...there was not time for prince ali being the crownprince.
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  #340  
Old 01-23-2006, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmarina
there is a famous writer mohamed hasanian hekal wrote this fact that prince ali was a crown prince in a book its name is kalaam fe elseyasa. i dunno how 2 translate its name كلام في السياسة
Talks of politics!
my dad has this book bak in Jordan but i never thought of reading it...
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