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View Poll Results: Do You Think King Hussein Made the "Right" Succession Decision?
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  #301  
Old 08-19-2005, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frothy
Do you think there is any way KA would give Prince Hassan a greater role in government under him? Do you think he consults with the Prince?
No and no.

KA won't even allow P. Hassan to serve as regent in his absence. I think KA is not secure enough in his role to invite the experienced, proven, seasoned P. Hassan to work with him in a meaningful way. It would only highlight to the world his own shortcomings and stimulate discussion as to why the more capable man is reporting to the less capable one.

It is unfortunate, though, because Jordan could use someone as skilled as P. Hassan to help dig itself out of some of its bigger problems.
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  #302  
Old 08-21-2005, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Roshanah
He he heThat's sounds about right.:p
yes i agree.
think hamza would have been a great king.
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  #303  
Old 08-21-2005, 02:44 PM
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Who knows Prince still maybe in the future. KA isn't as educated as his younger brother and furthermore Hamzah is the preferred choice. :)



Quote:
Originally Posted by closesttoheaven
yes i agree.
think hamza would have been a great king.
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  #304  
Old 08-21-2005, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by emily62_1
Hamzah may be far too young, but he's far so brighter than Abdullah, he'd have learnt quickly, KH had faith in his intelligence and I heard Barbara Walters was so startled when she interviewed Hamzah in London, soon after his father's death, she said - this guy of only 19 has explained to me all the alliances , the whole ME "chessboard", the strategies, hopes for future....- he had everything in mind, while i bet KA is still confused about it all.
Where can I read about this interview? Do u by any chance still have it?
I've never read it.
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  #305  
Old 08-21-2005, 07:54 PM
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I think PHassan is a bit too opiniated. Maybe if he were King he woudl not be so. But some of the things he ahs said about certain leaders are not called for and if he were king it would compromise the relationship of Jordan and the West. I wonder would PHassan try to have better relations w/ his Arab neighbors? I don't think I can say that PHassan would have made a better king. Maybe PHamzah would have made a better king. I don't know. Maybe he is too nice though.

But ppl always talk about PHamzah, PHassan. KA. What about PHashim? I am sure he has alot of capabilities to be king. Ok, of course we don't know that much about him, but I hope that will change. I wonder what his relationship was like w/ his father. Usu. the baby is the favorite of the parents, but PHamzah took that away.
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  #306  
Old 08-21-2005, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
I think PHassan is a bit too opiniated. Maybe if he were King he woudl not be so. But some of the things he ahs said about certain leaders are not called for and if he were king it would compromise the relationship of Jordan and the West. I wonder would PHassan try to have better relations w/ his Arab neighbors?
But P. Hassan was looking out for Jordanian interests when he said those things about G. Bush (if that's what you're referring to). At the moment, there are many who criticize KA for selling out to the West too much. Indeed, he is almost completely economically dependent upon the West. So I think P. Hassan would've managed to triangulate Jordanian interests with Western and regional interests in a more balanced way. At least, that is what his track record indicates he would've done. And, frankly, that is just a whole lot wiser than what KA is doing.

P. Hamzah and P. Hashem, sorry to say, are just too inexperienced to be credible to the world as head of state. Even KA is criticized for this, and he's at least a half a generation older than those two.
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  #307  
Old 08-21-2005, 10:34 PM
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Yes. KA is probably doing the exact opposite of what KH would have done. I do get nervous at times that he is too dependent on the West, particularly the US. But I do like how he recently dissed the UN. At least he is getting a bit tougher.
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  #308  
Old 09-20-2005, 06:53 PM
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Did the U.S. Encourage Hassan's Ouster?
The Wall Street Journal (Europe)
By David Wurmser
January 25, 1999

One might question the wisdom of the Clinton administration's ongoing attempts to secure Yasser Arafat a Palestinian state in the territory occupied by Israel after the 1967 war. But any policy that emboldens those who wish to strengthen Mr. Arafat's hand in neighboring Jordan as well must be regarded as madness. Yet, if recent reports coming out of the Arab world have any basis, this is precisely what U.S. officials appear to be doing by sowing uncertainty over who will rule Jordan after King Hussein.

King Hussein returned home last Tuesday from a half-year stay in the United States for cancer treatment amid rumors that his brother, Crown Prince Hassan bin Talal, would no longer be heir to his throne. This weekend those rumors were confirmed by the palace, which said the king was preparing to name one of his sons -- likely Hamza or Abdullah -- as crown prince.

For years, there have been many in Jordan who opposed Prince Hassan's eventual enthronement. These opponents include supporters of Syria, Saddam Hussein, and particularly the PLO -- all three of which identify Prince Hassan with policies they fear. In addition, numerous elements in the royal family itself, for self-interested reasons, see their own fortunes tied to the crowning of other candidates.

The prince's opponents also apparently include officials in the Clinton administration. As early as August, Arab papers reported that American officials were quite anxious about Prince Hassan's regency and eventual succession. They believed that since his designation as crown prince in 1965 he has led a "hard line" camp against the Palestinians, who form the majority of Jordanian citizens. They feared that Prince Hassan's lack of harmony with the kingdom's "demographic realities" could lead either to internal unrest or to Palestinian capital flight. Much of Jordan's financial structure is controlled by a few Palestinian families tied to Mr. Arafat. They also feared that in his attempts to survive, Prince Hassan would have to rely on Islamic fundamentalists. The Clinton administration communicated its fears to the Israelis. According to Israeli papers, in an Oct. 14 meeting with Israeli Foreign Minister Ariel Sharon and Prime Minister Netanyahu, President Bill Clinton "expressed grave concern" over Jordan's stability after the prince took over -- so much so that Mr. Clinton had asked to receive daily updates on King Hussein's health.

According to articles in the Arab press, before Christmas an American National Security Council official traveled to King Hussein's hospital bed in the United States to suggest that Prince Hamzah, the king's son with Queen Nur, rather than Prince Hassan, be crown prince. They tried to reassure King Hussein that the problem of Prince Hamzah's youth could be overcome through American security assistance and financial aid to the Kingdom. According to some reports, American officials were encouraged by the American-born Queen to press her husband. Other articles in Arab papers report that others within Jordan have been agitating for a similar change. And now newspapers in Amman draw attention to the symbolic significance of allowing only the powerful chief of Jordanian general intelligence, Samih al-Batikhi, to attend the meeting between King Hussein and Mr. Clinton on the eve of King Hussein's return. Mr. Batikhi is not among Prince Hassan's supporters.

This Jan. 5 meeting appears to have been the turning point. Just days before in an interview, King Hussein emphatically and quickly dismissed rumors that he had any intention of removing his brother as heir. And, according to Arab papers, during his pre-Christmas meeting, he bristled at the NSC official's suggestion to oust Prince Hassan and crown Hamzah -- at which point Queen Nur intervened and asked him to defer his decision to retain Prince Hassan. The tone changed dramatically after the Jan. 5 Clinton-Hussein meeting. By Jan. 8, detailed articles appeared in Arab papers explaining not only that King Hussein had changed his mind, but explaining the circumstances that led to the change and the sequence of events that would follow.

It is important to understand the agenda of Prince Hassan's opponents. Despite American skepticism, the prince is known for his concern for Palestinians and his eagerness to escort foreign dignitaries around abysmal refugee camps in the hopes of securing assistance for them. But Prince Hassan is also known to suspect Arafat personally and the PLO more broadly -- skepticism born of the bitter experiences of Black September 1970, when he and his family were targets of Arafat's murderous organization. American concerns that Prince Hassan cannot come to terms with Jordan's Palestinians, which blur the distinction in the prince's attitudes toward the PLO and Palestinians, suggest a tendency to see all Palestinian politics uncritically through the PLO's narrow lens.

The hopes of those opposing the prince have been bolstered recently by the involvement of American public relations advisor Frank Anderson, engaged by Prince Talal bin Muhammad on behalf of Queen Nur, according to knowledgeable sources. In an interview to an Israeli newspaper, Mr. Anderson admitted his long ties to the PLO as a former CIA official in Beirut in the 1970s and eventually as the head of the Near East division's operations branch. Mr. Anderson still speaks nostalgically and proudly of his ties with one of the deadliest terrorists of the 1960s and 1970s, Hassan Salame, the "Red Prince," killed by Israel in January 1979 for his role in the Munich Olympic massacre. In an interview with the Israeli newspaper Haaretz in November, Mr. Anderson said of Salame, "he was almost an American." Mr. Anderson recalls that during the fighting in Black September 1970, Salame headed Bureau 17, the elite PLO unit conducting the most dangerous and deadly missions during the fighting against Jordan's Hashemite ruling family. Mr. Anderson's long-time ties to the PLO, and his current affiliation with the anti-Hassan camp, contrast with Prince Hassan's history with the PLO.

America's Iraq policy would also be affected by the change in the Jordan's line of succession. Prince Hassan has openly challenged Saddam Hussein and strongly supports the Iraqi opposition. During a televised speech to a parliamentary meeting in late December, he lashed out at Saddam's regime, prompting Iraq's Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz to single Prince Hassan out for personal condemnation. In contrast, Mr. Anderson has been one of the leading opponents of the Iraqi opposition, appearing last year on U.S. television to lambaste plans for a popular insurgency against Saddam, preferring a military coup instead. And Mr. Batikhi, the chief of intelligence, is known to have been deeply involved in helping the CIA's ill-fated military coup attempt in Iraq in 1996 (which was reported widely in the American press) against which the Iraqi opposition movements and Prince Hassan strongly warned as ill-conceived and infiltrated.

Other powerful forces in Jordan dislike Prince Hassan's support for the Iraqi opposition because they are either sympathetic to Saddam, or at least believe Jordan must maintain good relations with its neighbor regardless of its leader. And the small group of Palestinians, including Sabih al-Masri, who run the bulk of Jordan's financial structure, are also tied to Iraqi interests and oppose Prince Hassan.

Jordan has reached a watershed. Though small, its politics can influence the course of Arab politics by example. The country rests on a firmer political foundation than the fashionable European ideas of fascism and totalitarianism that have corrupted the region's other states. King Hussein asks little of his people and rarely demands sacrifices -- as have Mr. Assad, Mr. Arafat and Saddam -- to pursue personal ideas or grandeur. And its constitutional monarchy is developing into the Arab world's first genuine democracy. Great care should be taken in protecting and preserving that monarchy and encouraging its evolution.

Jordan needs a strong leader to navigate through trying times as it deals with democratization and faces a resurgent Saddam, an emerging PLO entity, and a regional climate as uncertain as any in decades. It would be a grave misstep if the reports emerging from the Arab world are true and some in the Clinton administration have allowed the United States to be entangled in the succession process in Jordan and have helped derail a clean, unambiguous succession to Prince Hassan. In fact, it opens the door for dangerous games in Amman -- a circumstance that could lead to the collapse of Jordan as we know it.
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  #309  
Old 01-18-2006, 02:08 PM
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but it's true Ali was named CP when he was young
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  #310  
Old 01-18-2006, 03:22 PM
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Actually it was Prince Abdullah who was CP for the first 3 years of his life.
Then Prince Hassan took over the position from 1965 until 1999.
Ali has never been CP.
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  #311  
Old 01-19-2006, 12:18 AM
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That makes sense, Humera. If Hassan was CP up until 1999, then how and when was Ali ever named CP? If it is my understanding of Jordan succession laws, then KH had the opportunity to name either his eldest son, or a brother to be CP right? If this is so, then he should have just went with Abdullah in the first place. This would have kept both Hamzah and Hassan from the public humiliation of losing their positions as CP. The decision to name the next CP should have been left up to the prince who became king after KH.
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  #312  
Old 01-19-2006, 01:18 AM
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Yes exactly. Prince Hassan was Crown Prince from 1965 to 1999, Prince Ali wasn't even born until 1975.
Prince Abdullah, as the King's eldest son, was CP until he was 3 years old. During that time there had been several assassination attempts on the life of King Hussein and he felt that it wasn't safe to have essentially a baby in charge. And so Prince Hassan was invested as CP.
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  #313  
Old 01-19-2006, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
Yes exactly. Prince Hassan was Crown Prince from 1965 to 1999, Prince Ali wasn't even born until 1975.
Prince Abdullah, as the King's eldest son, was CP until he was 3 years old. During that time there had been several assassination attempts on the life of King Hussein and he felt that it wasn't safe to have essentially a baby in charge. And so Prince Hassan was invested as CP.
thats my knowledge about the CP things too!
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  #314  
Old 01-19-2006, 10:13 AM
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Thanks sommone and Humera. I hadn't heard that Prince Ali was Crown Prince and from what i knew already that didn't sound right!
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  #315  
Old 01-19-2006, 12:48 PM
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hi everybody , i am a new member from Jordan

i totally agree with Suria, because i remember that i read it somewhere by my own eyes when i was in School i wish if i can get that paper , it was history as Suria said , and suddenly they changed it , Hassan was a CP , and PA was the one after him ,

BTW I LOVE PA SOOOOOOOO MUCH HE IS THE CUTEST ,

this is for you Suria , i may be love PA more than you... :p thank you for your great photos

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  #316  
Old 01-19-2006, 12:51 PM
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Yea I am kinda sure of PA being named CP too...
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  #317  
Old 01-19-2006, 01:08 PM
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I never read anything about that - in no biography about king hussein - there was always PH called the crown prince ...


is it maybe that jordanian people wanted prince ali the CP because he is full arab - and so there are rumours - that he was a crown prince?
(sorry but I have to add that I think thats a very bad reason to want him become king - because arab is arab - even when only one parent is arab - that doesnt say anything about the persons character)

I dun get it ...
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  #318  
Old 01-19-2006, 01:14 PM
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Maybe we have been toough wrong stuff!! LOL
But I remember I took at school that when PA was born KH named him CP (but it was for a very short time),then he put Hassan,I also remember hearing that prince Hassan loved Ali so much and he promised to make him CP (that's before Rashid was Born!)
Anyway,cuz I am getting too old my memory isn't helping much,so dunno,LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by closesttoheaven
I never read anything about that - in no biography about king hussein - there was always PH called the crown prince ...


is it maybe that jordanian people wanted prince ali the CP because he is full arab - and so there are rumours - that he was a crown prince?
(sorry but I have to add that I think thats a very bad reason to want him become king - because arab is arab - even when only one parent is arab - that doesnt say anything about the persons character)

I dun get it ...
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  #319  
Old 01-19-2006, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil Monkey
Maybe we have been toough wrong stuff!! LOL
But I remember I took at school that when PA was born KH named him CP (but it was for a very short time),then he put Hassan,I also remember hearing that prince Hassan loved Ali so much and he promised to make him CP (that's before Rashid was Born!)
Anyway,cuz I am getting too old my memory isn't helping much,so dunno,LOL
I dun wanna say - that you or me are wrong... i dunno!
but if there was another crown prince - for example prince ali - thats an important historical fact - and such facts are mentioned anywhere ...
and you can find nothing about it - not in any encyclopedia - nor wikipedia - or any biography.
and historians dun miss such an important fact?!
that makes it unbelievable to me!
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  #320  
Old 01-19-2006, 01:25 PM
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Well I'd rather rely on official sources about this than some obscure paper some people have seen, which was clearly wrong.
If you look at any official bios, even Prince Ali's bio on his sister Haya's website, it is never mentioned that he ever served as CP.
Also, it doesnt make sense for King Hussein to have another baby CP after Prince Abdullah. Like I said before, It wasn't safe for him to have a young CP. Which is why Prince Hassan had the position from 1965-1999. And thats according to all official bios and sources (ie. Prince Hassan's website, KA's website etc)
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