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  #101  
Old 12-17-2004, 05:27 AM
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I am not against queen noor, and I am not talking on behalf of the jordanians I'm just talking about the dominant feeling in jordan, and I can guarantee you that I have spoken to alot of jordanians, queen rania may be liked more but this does not mean that people hate noor. I think that both queens have done so much for jordan. but queen rania maybe had an easier job due to her origin. however, queen noor was criticized for many things including her lavish style (so its not just rania) and that she hasn't learned to speak arabic although she lived in jordan for over 20 years. but I think that a turning point in the feelings of jordanians towards queen noor was her attitude in former prime minister rabin's funeral, as she was seen shedding tears in his funeral which made jordanians and especially those of palestenian origin really upset and probably which brought back the fact that she was never a true jordanian.
also the fact that rania has not helped palestenians, first of all rania has done many things to help palestenians including all the charity dinners that she has patronized all over the world and also many charitable events she carried out in jordan, but what I want to point out is, queen rania is the queen of jordan, so her priority is helping people of JORDAN, which she was greatly succesful at, so helping palestenians is not actually her job, but still she was generous and considerate enough to help them.
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  #102  
Old 12-17-2004, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farah
also the fact that rania has not helped palestenians, first of all rania has done many things to help palestenians including all the charity dinners that she has patronized all over the world and also many charitable events she carried out in jordan, but what I want to point out is, queen rania is the queen of jordan, so her priority is helping people of JORDAN, which she was greatly succesful at, so helping palestenians is not actually her job, but still she was generous and considerate enough to help them.
Again,the palestinians who are here in Jordan have Jordanian Passports so they are JORDANIANS! So she is doing charity work to help Jordanians and among them those from palestinian origins,at least I hope that's what she does,I dun think they have the "Jordanian-Palestinian" issue...If u know what I mean.
U live in Jordan...Have the Jordanian Passport...then U are Jordanian no matter what ur origin is...work for Jordan,be loyal to it and Dun forget ur origin country(fair enough)... (at least that's what I understood from the term "Jordan First"...not as people said it was build upon racisim)

Anyway everyone is entitled to their own opinions...
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  #103  
Old 12-17-2004, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Balqis
I am glad you brought this up actually, Trouble, because this needs to be corrected. Jordan River began, according to Queen Noor as:

"Jordan River Design, which was established by the Save the Children Fund in cooperation with the Noor Al Hussein Foundation in 1987, was transferred to the Jordan River for Development Projects (JRDP), a non-profit volunteer organization under the presidency of HM Queen Rania Abdullah."

I got the above from this link: http://www.go.com.jo/QNoorjo/main/hmpics.htm

Queen Rania wasn't around in 1987, but according to the Jordan River Foundation's official website, JRF was established in 1995, two years after she married King (then Prince) Abdullah. JRF now does more than just traditional crafts and designs, it encompasses a lot of projects dealing with the rights of children and women as well as the enviroment. Under Queen Rania it has grown considerably, see link:
http://www.jordanriver.jo/

As for the other things you raised, I see nothing wrong with one queen building on something a previous queen has started. It's about helping people and your country, not about who started what. If you check both Queen Noor's and Queen Rania's official websites you will see that BOTH are doing tremendous work. Queen Rania always credits Queen Noor when it is appropriate. For example my husband and I purchased a book on Petra and the exhibition that was unveiled in the US last year. The forward is actually written by Queen Rania and Queen Noor is credited in the book for starting talks with the museum and getting the ball rolling with the idea for the exhibition back in the early 1990's. Just one example...
MY Question was innocent,I seriously wanted to know who first established those charitable orgscuz I have heard alot. AS for the Jordan river foundation,I did work with them for about 10 days,I was a member of the Jordanian deligation to "Frankfurt book fair" last Oct. and I was responsible about the Handicrafts section which included Jordan river foundation,Bani Hamida women and, "rural women" Organizations,and I tell u everyone seemed to have heard about them and everyone took brochures to order stuff from Jordan and they also were intrested in knowing more about KA and QR. Anyway to sum it all up,we can't deny that Rania had done some good wrok so far,I just can't understand y u guys keep hinting that I have something against her when God knows I don't...lol
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  #104  
Old 12-17-2004, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E
Who first established Jordan River Foundation?
Who first establised "Nisa'a Bani Hamida"?
Who first called for humen and Children rights?

Can someone please answer me?(it's an innocent Question by the way)
Prince Hassan first established the Family Protection Unit way back in the late 1980's I think, and was responsible for the setting up of the first shelters for abused women. This project was taken from his supervision and given over to Queen Rania in 1999.

It was Prince Hassan' s call for a new Humanitarian Order at the UN in 1981 which led to the then Sectetary General asking him to set up the Independent Commission on Humanitarian Issues, an independent commission to look into human rights's abuse and poverty world wide, and whose final report was published as a book called 'Winning the Human Race'. It has led to resolutions being adopted in the UN and the formation of the Independent Bureau on Humanitarian Issues. As Crown Prince, Prince Hassan took a personal interest in how Jordan's prisons were run and did his best to improve conditions, and was in close and regular contact with ICRC to ensure no human rights violations took place. He used to regularly speak out against what he referred to as 'crimes of dishonour'. Now it is a different time with different ways.
There is no doubt that Queen Rania has done much to bring the issues of women and children' into the limelight, but it is important to remember what has been done before, the good of which continues, even if not in the public eye.
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  #105  
Old 12-19-2004, 10:26 PM
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QR and QN

Thank you for reminding me of photo! I've seen others--I even hate the words "try to post" as it's been excruciating so I won't try to post--where QN and the now QR are together side by side and "teaching" is precisely the term I'd use! It seemed in photos and captions, QN was imparting what she'd learned for QR's benefit---you know, the reaching out to and touching/being touched by people, QN always had someone taking notes when meeting with the people; QR does the same, etc. They approach many things in a similar way--very business-like but open to the people. And, I think QR learned a great deal from QN about presenting a certain "image" to promote the country, treating people with courtesy (QR said in an interview: "You realize in this position you must be extra vigilant of how you treat others as they take their cue from you.....so if you rush in and don't bother to say "hello" to staff and others, it could be perceived as you are having a bad day and the tone is set. That's why I am always careful to say "good morning" and present a cheerful attitude." Contrast this with QN's quotes about how SHE learned from her husband how to "only present the most positive, loving, caring attitude" and "it's important, no matter how you feel inside, to smile and be upbeat as people are looking at you and you don't want to project upset; its a duty to be the most positive you can be......and a more peaceful way to live your life." I think there was some help given to QR and by QN--and they both deserve some credit--QN for giving help; QR for accepting and incorporating it into her role as Queen.


I AM going to start a post tomorrow about similarities......I think there are a lot. Besides, what good comes from saying hurtful things about either? We--the majority--are here, I think, because we admire the JRF overall. While asking questions for clarification or asking if a rumor is just that is good as it leads to valid information, I think it would be nice to take some time and focus on what they bring to the table as individuals and a group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balqis
This is an excellent summary of both, Mary Shawn and yeah your grandma is very very wise :)

I don't think anyone benefits from marginalising one queen over the other.

The picture on the first link I posted above has Queen Noor and Princess Rania visiting a project together back in the 1990's. I think back in the day Rania was probably slowly introduced to royal duties by Noor and I am sure she'd be the first to acknowledge it and say thanks :)
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  #106  
Old 12-20-2004, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farah
also the fact that rania has not helped palestenians, first of all rania has done many things to help palestenians including all the charity dinners that she has patronized all over the world and also many charitable events she carried out in jordan, but what I want to point out is, queen rania is the queen of jordan, so her priority is helping people of JORDAN, which she was greatly succesful at, so helping palestenians is not actually her job, but still she was generous and considerate enough to help them.
Good reminder about the charity dinners, Farah. Queen Rania has attended dinners in London almost annually in aid of MAP, Medical Aid for Palestinians. There was a famous launch of an appeal for this organization that she made with Cherie Blair in London in 2002. It received a lot of coverage in the news for Cherie Blair's controversial comments. Also even though she is a Queen of Jordan, Rania has also helped raise money for Iraqi children, which is very commendable. First in 2001 and then in 2003 during the World Economic Forum held in Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E
MY Question was innocent,I seriously wanted to know who first established those charitable orgscuz I have heard alot.
And it was taken as such, Trouble. I hope my answer helped to clarify things for you :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E
AS for the Jordan river foundation,I did work with them for about 10 days,I was a member of the Jordanian deligation to "Frankfurt book fair" last Oct. and I was responsible about the Handicrafts section which included Jordan river foundation,Bani Hamida women and, "rural women" Organizations,and I tell u everyone seemed to have heard about them and everyone took brochures to order stuff from Jordan and they also were intrested in knowing more about KA and QR. Anyway to sum it all up,we can't deny that Rania had done some good wrok so far,I just can't understand y u guys keep hinting that I have something against her when God knows I don't...lol
That's very interesting. I appreciate you sharing the above with us :)

BTW No one is "hinting" at anything, please do not assume this. We are all talking about the JRF, not analyzing each other's personal feelings about them. At least I don't

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryshawn
Thank you for reminding me of photo! I've seen others--I even hate the words "try to post" as it's been excruciating so I won't try to post--where QN and the now QR are together side by side and "teaching" is precisely the term I'd use! It seemed in photos and captions, QN was imparting what she'd learned for QR's benefit---you know, the reaching out to and touching/being touched by people, QN always had someone taking notes when meeting with the people; QR does the same, etc. They approach many things in a similar way--very business-like but open to the people. And, I think QR learned a great deal from QN about presenting a certain "image" to promote the country, treating people with courtesy (QR said in an interview: "You realize in this position you must be extra vigilant of how you treat others as they take their cue from you.....so if you rush in and don't bother to say "hello" to staff and others, it could be perceived as you are having a bad day and the tone is set. That's why I am always careful to say "good morning" and present a cheerful attitude." Contrast this with QN's quotes about how SHE learned from her husband how to "only present the most positive, loving, caring attitude" and "it's important, no matter how you feel inside, to smile and be upbeat as people are looking at you and you don't want to project upset; its a duty to be the most positive you can be......and a more peaceful way to live your life." I think there was some help given to QR and by QN--and they both deserve some credit--QN for giving help; QR for accepting and incorporating it into her role as Queen.
I didn't know that about Noor. It shows a lot about her. You do have to have a certain personality when dealing with the public. You do need to have a certain intuition and diplomacy and above all a sincere desire to be kind to people. People respond to this so much more.

BTW I am going through my old Hello magazines from 1997 onwards and I've come across some articles on Noor. I might do some scanning when I have time. One concerns Noor from 1998 and it's a big feature on her travelling around Jordan visiting schools, different projects etc. much like Queen Rania does today, suprise suprise LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryshawn
I AM going to start a post tomorrow about similarities......I think there are a lot. Besides, what good comes from saying hurtful things about either? We--the majority--are here, I think, because we admire the JRF overall. While asking questions for clarification or asking if a rumor is just that is good as it leads to valid information, I think it would be nice to take some time and focus on what they bring to the table as individuals and a group.
I totally agree with you Mary Shawn, there's no point in saying negative things about either queen. Who in the end benefits? I look forward to your post about the similarities :)
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  #107  
Old 12-24-2004, 09:39 AM
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having some1 to take notes for you in visits and being energetic while facing people are things that everyone will learn in the postion,this hardly warrants a share of expriences between the 2 queens
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  #108  
Old 12-30-2004, 10:11 PM
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Queen Noor and Queen Rania--Article on Similarities

A recent article on Queen Rania cites similarities between the two Queens, beginning with the fact both were criticized for their spending habits. It goes on to quote a prominent Jordanian politician as saying:

"Both women are very similar. They are both intelligent, both ambitious, both media-savvy and both want international media coverage. Everyone wants to be Princess Diana and they saw one another as competition (one reason QN maintains low profile in Jordan). Rania is more powerful than Noor because of her strong position with her husband BUT Rania couldn't have achieved what she has if Queen Noor had not gone before her. It was Queen Noor who made the position of Queen as a working queen and 'partner'."

What is meant by QR having more power because of her relationship with her husband? Does this imply they have a better marriage......or support assertions KA views her as an important asset as she is Palestinian and speaks fluent Arabic....or what? I found it an interesting statement as there are so many ways of reading things into it.....Any thoughts on how to interpret its meaning?
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  #109  
Old 12-31-2004, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryshawn
A recent article on Queen Rania cites similarities between the two Queens, beginning with the fact both were criticized for their spending habits. It goes on to quote a prominent Jordanian politician as saying:

"Both women are very similar. They are both intelligent, both ambitious, both media-savvy and both want international media coverage. Everyone wants to be Princess Diana and they saw one another as competition (one reason QN maintains low profile in Jordan). Rania is more powerful than Noor because of her strong position with her husband BUT Rania couldn't have achieved what she has if Queen Noor had not gone before her. It was Queen Noor who made the position of Queen as a working queen and 'partner'."

What is meant by QR having more power because of her relationship with her husband? Does this imply they have a better marriage......or support assertions KA views her as an important asset as she is Palestinian and speaks fluent Arabic....or what? I found it an interesting statement as there are so many ways of reading things into it.....Any thoughts on how to interpret its meaning?
I think the role of QR is biggest because she is palestinian !!
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  #110  
Old 12-31-2004, 06:22 PM
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Dear Sol,


I thought so too but wasn't sure if the Jordanian people felt so, too. It would make sense. I think KA would receive an enormous backlash if he would ever try to divorce her (I'm referencing discussion over KA and KH being "ladies' men).


Mary Shawn

Interesting about her shedding tears at Rabin's funeral and that being part of reason jordanians feel she is not a true jordanian. I believe she and KH felt Rabin understood entire situation and was the best bet for achieving something good for both palestinians and Israelis. To have his support gone so quickly would have me shedding tears as the next prime minister might not be so easy to work with....and wasn't--from QN's perspective. Let's not forget, too, KH gave a very moving eulogy for Rabin. It was so poignant, I was moved to tears listening to it. And--while embracing different points of view on many issues--KH had a very good relationship with Rabin. He called him "friend and a brother." I just saw a photo of KH lighting a cigarette for Rabin while smoking one of his own. Friendship CAN transcend a number of differences. I have great empathy for all concerned in the Palestinian/Israeli situation........and often wish more people could transcend issues to find common ground as both are good people who have suffered and endured so much. I suppose this lent additional credence to rumors QN had Israeli blood.....it's a shame; she was weeping over the loss of a friend "a statesman, whose word we could trust."
Quote:
Originally Posted by farah
I am not against queen noor, and I am not talking on behalf of the jordanians I'm just talking about the dominant feeling in jordan, and I can guarantee you that I have spoken to alot of jordanians, queen rania may be liked more but this does not mean that people hate noor. I think that both queens have done so much for jordan. but queen rania maybe had an easier job due to her origin. however, queen noor was criticized for many things including her lavish style (so its not just rania) and that she hasn't learned to speak arabic although she lived in jordan for over 20 years. but I think that a turning point in the feelings of jordanians towards queen noor was her attitude in former prime minister rabin's funeral, as she was seen shedding tears in his funeral which made jordanians and especially those of palestenian origin really upset and probably which brought back the fact that she was never a true jordanian.
also the fact that rania has not helped palestenians, first of all rania has done many things to help palestenians including all the charity dinners that she has patronized all over the world and also many charitable events she carried out in jordan, but what I want to point out is, queen rania is the queen of jordan, so her priority is helping people of JORDAN, which she was greatly succesful at, so helping palestenians is not actually her job, but still she was generous and considerate enough to help them.
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  #111  
Old 02-18-2005, 09:08 AM
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Jordan is a very small country; Having two Queens living there would just invite speculation about rivalry between them. Especially after recent events.

As an analogy, in the British aristocracy, a Dowager Duchess would leave the main house and live in a "cottage" somewhere on the estate, leaving the ancestral mansion to the new Duke and his Duchess.

And perhaps Queen Noor believes (in my opinion, correctly) that she has something to contribute on a wider international stage.

It is always difficult for a widowed Queen to find her place without "treading on the toes" or "outshining" the new Queen, who also has to find her way.
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  #112  
Old 02-18-2005, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Jordan is a very small country; Having two Queens living there would just invite speculation about rivalry between them. Especially after recent events.

As an analogy, in the British aristocracy, a Dowager Duchess would leave the main house and live in a "cottage" somewhere on the estate, leaving the ancestral mansion to the new Duke and his Duchess.

And perhaps Queen Noor believes (in my opinion, correctly) that she has something to contribute on a wider international stage.

It is always difficult for a widowed Queen to find her place without "treading on the toes" or "outshining" the new Queen, who also has to find her way.
okay - and what is with bab al salam?
i thought its her house and she would stay there - once she said that.
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  #113  
Old 02-19-2005, 01:32 AM
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Red face

[QUOTE=Warren]Jordan is a very small country; Having two Queens living there would just invite speculation about rivalry between them. Especially after recent events.

I don't think it's a logical reason, we are not talking about a town or a city, Jordan still is a country of 5million people,there's lots to do. if they cooperated together and thought about the people, they will be deeply admired and respected. I am not blaming anyone of them, but I heard KAbdullah said the same QUOTE statement, God knows why.
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  #114  
Old 02-19-2005, 01:28 PM
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[QUOTE=amina1
I don't think it's a logical reason, we are not talking about a town or a city, Jordan still is a country of 5million people,there's lots to do. if they cooperated together and thought about the people, they will be deeply admired and respected. I am not blaming anyone of them, but I heard KAbdullah said the same QUOTE statement, God knows why.[/QUOTE]



yeah i think so too!
it is ranjas problem,not queen noors. maybe it isnt possible to cooperate with QR?!
and once queen noor told she wouldnt leave jordan and queen noor has only the title *queen*.
so maybe ranja has really a big problem with noor.....
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  #115  
Old 02-19-2005, 01:42 PM
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Two Queens

Quote:
Originally Posted by closesttoheaven
yeah i think so too!
it is ranjas problem,not queen noors. maybe it isnt possible to cooperate with QR?!
and once queen noor told she wouldnt leave jordan and queen noor has only the title *queen*.
so maybe ranja has really a big problem with noor.....
Perhaps there is no problem.

Maybe Queen Noor is just giving Queen Rania some space.

I intended my first post to be just a possible explanation; I am surprised it has turned into Noor versus Rania .
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  #116  
Old 02-19-2005, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Perhaps there is no problem.

Maybe Queen Noor is just giving Queen Rania some space.

I intended my first post to be just a possible explanation; I am surprised it has turned into Noor versus Rania .

but i think leaving jordan is more than giving some space....it is a lot of space!
more space is not possible!
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  #117  
Old 02-22-2005, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amina1

I don't think it's a logical reason, we are not talking about a town or a city, Jordan still is a country of 5million people,there's lots to do. if they cooperated together and thought about the people, they will be deeply admired and respected. I am not blaming anyone of them, but I heard KAbdullah said the same QUOTE statement, God knows why.
5m people, but a very small group of the elite, which is who she would be hanging out with. You think she'd be hitting the night life in, say, Ma'an? I doubt it.
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  #118  
Old 06-08-2005, 08:14 PM
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And from what I've gathered QN was a real target with the elite, also known as the "chattering class" in Jordan.....so I don't think she'd be spending a lot of time with them...... Wish things within the JRF would settle down and there would be less tension between family members as there is a lot to be done and all have strengths to contribute--including QN, whose connections within the U.S. and the international community could prove quite valuable to KA given current tensions with the Bush administration. It would be nice to see them all involved in meaningful causes and pulling their weight in the country.[QUOTE=Bubbette]
Quote:
Originally Posted by amina1

5m people, but a very small group of the elite, which is who she would be hanging out with. You think she'd be hitting the night life in, say, Ma'an? I doubt it.
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  #119  
Old 10-28-2007, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
Perhaps there is no problem.

Maybe Queen Noor is just giving Queen Rania some space.

I intended my first post to be just a possible explanation; I am surprised it has turned into Noor versus Rania .
Per her interview with Larry King, Queen Noor had no intention to leave Jordan.

I do not think the conflict is/was with Queen Rania. I think the conflict is between Prince Hasan and Queen Noor and possibly King Abdullah II and Queen Noor.
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  #120  
Old 10-28-2007, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHH View Post
Per her interview with Larry King, Queen Noor had no intention to leave Jordan.

I do not think the conflict is/was with Queen Rania. I think the conflict is between Prince Hasan and Queen Noor and possibly King Abdullah II and Queen Noor.
Queen Rania has said she and Queen Noor are in touch via email.

Ultimately the story of a catfight between 2 women makes more headlines. However I think if there were any "issues", then they are between King Abdullah and Queen Noor, after all she is his step-mother and it is far more likely that there would be animostity between the two, espeically as it is alleged Noor was not the nicest of stepmothers.
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