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  #41  
Old 06-30-2004, 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by bluetortuga@Jun 30th, 2004 - 10:49 pm
I think KA and QR should leave QN alone and let her live in peace. I gather from the wedding QN has already "lost" one son. I can't understand Hamzah's behavior. It will come back to bite hime.
I think you're right that Queen Noor has already lost Hamzah to Abdullah and Rania in that he has followed the scent of the power so to speak. To coin another tired phrase: Hamzah knows which side the bread is buttered. And sadly the power doesn't lie with his mother anymore. How he could drop his mother so easily for the possibility of power and the role of King is beyond me. And I say possibility because I don't truly believe that he will be named King when Abdullah dies; I think in all likelihood Abdullah will appoint his own son to succeed him. Also, by all the accounts I have read, Noor was not a bad mother. She did not abandon him, abuse him or neglect him. She was in fact quite a doting and caring mother, and how he could turn his back on her now, especially since she has lost her husband (his father) whom she loved deeply, I will never understand.

He seems like such an ungrateful son for what he has done to Noor.

I don't think he realizes what an asset his mother could be if she were more a part of his life. She is well liked and admired in Jordan (even if the present King and Queen think differently on this), and if power and the role of King is what Hamzah has his eyes on, I truly think that his mother could help him achieve this. She may not be able to make up Abdullah's mind for him and insist that he carry out his late father's dying wish, but I think that Noor could certainly convince some people among the Jordanian elite and powerful that Hamzah is right for the role of king and they in turn could sway Abdullah, or at least create a base of support amongst the powerful in Jordan for Hamzah's "side." Also, I think Noor's presence in Jordan at Hamzah's side would be a constant reminder to the Jordanian people of the late King Hussein, who was very loved and admired, and that it was his personal sentiment that Hamzah his 'favourite' son should one day be king.
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  #42  
Old 07-01-2004, 12:17 AM
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I totally agree with everyone on this topic!!!!!!
I think QR should take a look at herself... it's one thing to be presentable and elegant - it's another thing to talk about poverty in your country and why other Nations should help you out - then walk around then stand in front of the people of that same Country in a scarf with the words FENDI strewn across it... at least be suttle, you know?
As far as Hamzah and QN... Hashim looks really close to everyone - siblings and his Mom... but he doesn't seem to spend much time in Jordan and neither do their sisters Iman and Raiyah - only when their Mom's there... I don't think Hamzah or anyone should humiliate themselves or allow their loved ones to be treated in such a deplorable fashion - as it's rumored QN is treated - just because they may or may not become king someday.... as I said in the previous in the 'lost thread' ... that KA may in fact want his own son to succeed him.... and unless KA promised KH that he would abdicate when Hamzah was 'prepared' it is doubtful CP Hamzah will be king before he's 50... and KA and QR love to be the ruling monarchs... so who knows... and with Hamzah announcing that after the wedding, he and PNoor were returning to the US to continue studying in post graduate studies - it's interesting he just didn't graduate from college and then choose to start working in Jordan....... so obviously he isn't going to be king anytime soon...
Genevieve, you're so right, Queen Noor seems to have been such a good mother and really devoted to each of her kids, as well as her husband, their people and Nation... I've read that it's that very devotion and her 'looking out' for her son's best interest that is another rumored rift within the extended family... it was really ugly to see QN cut out of Sandurst graduation picture - Hamzah, Hashim's and Iman's graduations - and pretty much regulated to the side or cut out of pictures at the wedding.... or it turning into a photo op for KA and QR... c'mon - those are Noor's kids - after the kids, it's also her day to shine... ya know? Sometimes, it's mentioned by someone who saw her - you wouldn't know Noor was even there..
Princess Noor - just based on the pictures I've seen - I don't know this to be true because people can be all smiles and then dislike each other - but she seems really close to KA and QR.. and so does CP Hamzah... I think they both know where the power lies and as you've stated, it isn't with Queen Noor any longer...
Interestingly, do you think it may irk Abdullah that he became king because Hamzah was too young - although it was CP that KH was rumored to have wanted to succeed him?
I've always wondered if QN and Princess Muna got along... at the Spanish wedding, they sat next to each other and were chatting... but it seems like the less we see of Noor, the more we see of QR and Princess Muna....

But Hamzah clearly - whether it's right or wrong - wants to be King... that statement of his before the Wedding Ceremony that it would be a small, lower scale ceremony because he's in solidarity with the Iraqis and Palestinians, is a public relations statement if I've ever heard one - even if it was truly heartfelt - only he knows that - but what a smart thing to say..... because when people start to look at that statement in comparison with the statements on expensive vacations, cars, planes and couture..... people will certainly see his 'gesture' as something someone 'in touch' would say.... I really wonder what is going through the CP's head.... hasn't he ever been so upset about something KA or QR has said or done to his Mom and just wanted to tell them to shove the CP title.....? (Sorry for the wording, but you know what I mean).... Perhaps his actions - his quiet and his non reaction is strategy..... he figures the best revenge is success.... when he gets into power then he'll give his Mom her place..... he may have learned to be quite the political strategist from his own Father - straddling two worlds without upsetting either one or jeopardizing his own standing.....
But with every new 'family picture' it seems that KA and QR are putting their own son into the spotlight more and more..... and the idea that either their son would succeed Abdullah or perhaps KA could put a condition on Hamzah that he wants his own son to succeed Hamzah - similar to KH wanting Hamzah to succeed the ex CP Hassan... - as a condition...

There was article - there are so many of them - but there was one written soon after the death of KH that said that KH had practically declared Hamzah heir - and he conversed with several friends including President Bill Clinton - and then after weighing all options and figuring out what was best for the nation and their people - decided Hamzah was too young.... also because he was Hamzah's age when he had become King - he wanted Hamzah to have the opportunity to live and grow before having that weight on his shoulders.....

I don't know where all the rifts began..... perhaps it was Muna's jealousy that King Hussein married QN and made her Queen..... or because people felt QN was pushing Hamzah into the spotlight or was too whatever...... but it seems like their issues just keep snowballing into even bigger issues and more hostility between all of them.....
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  #43  
Old 07-01-2004, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Genevieve@Jun 30th, 2004 - 10:23 pm
Also, I think Noor's presence in Jordan at Hamzah's side would be a constant reminder to the Jordanian people of the late King Hussein, who was very loved and admired, and that it was his personal sentiment that Hamzah his 'favourite' son should one day be king.
You know, Genevieve, I think you may have just hit on one of the major reasons QN is kept out of the country as much as she is. She's a visual reminder to all of KH's death, how well she took care of him during his long illness, how much he was loved by his people, and how he would've preferred that C.P. Hamzah was old enough to succeed him. That's just too threatening to KA and QR. Maybe it's not just that there's a rivalry between QN and QR, but that there's a perceived challenge to the throne.

Quote:
Originally posted by QueenB@Jun 30th, 2004 - 11:17 pm
But Hamzah clearly - whether it's right or wrong - wants to be King... that statement of his before the Wedding Ceremony that it would be a small, lower scale ceremony because he's in solidarity with the Iraqis and Palestinians, is a public relations statement if I've ever heard one - even if it was truly heartfelt - only he knows that - but what a smart thing to say..... because when people start to look at that statement in comparison with the statements on expensive vacations, cars, planes and couture..... people will certainly see his 'gesture' as something someone 'in touch' would say.
But, QueenB, did you really "buy" this? I thought it was nice that C.P. Hamzah acknowledged the ugly plight of the world and, in particular, the region at this time, but taking almost a year to plan your wedding ceremony using British wedding planners, inviting thousands of people to it, and spreading it over days--well the talk just didn't match the walk, in my estimation. If that was the toned down version, what would the extravagant version have looked like? So I didn't really give that much credence, except to note the inconsistency.

I'm a little confused about QN's parenting skills. Clearly the stepchildren, right or wrong, feel that she wasn't the best. I happen to think the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle and that QN probably wasn't as good a parent to them as she could've been, but she probably didn't suck at it as much as they would like us to believe, either. With her biological children, perhaps she did better. But in her "Vanity Fair" interview in 1999, she admits that she wasn't very much into parenting. She said she always put her husband and the needs of her country first and that she relied on extended family members and nannies to look after her children while she was traveling the world. It seems like a fairly honest self assessment, in which case she probably isn't as close to her children now as a lot of mothers might be. But it does seem to me that losing her husband and most of her role in Jordan has given her the time and the will to spend more time with her children. Good for her. But I just can't figure out why C.P. Hamzah is choosing to behave as he does. Why is his career path more important than his mother? It's deeply troubling to me, and it breaks my heart each time I see photos of or read news articles about another QN snubbing.
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  #44  
Old 07-01-2004, 01:12 PM
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Queen Noor's relationship with her kids

I haven't been able to find it anywhere-what have her kids done to her? I keep reading about Hamzah's behavior.
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  #45  
Old 07-01-2004, 02:41 PM
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Monos26,

I don't think it is all of her childern I think it is just her oldest--Hamzah. It is said that Queen Noor was place at another table from the the wedding party at her son's reception. Many persons on this board including myself thought that it was strange that the mother of the bridegroom would be place away from the wedding party. She should have been at the table with the bridegroom and the bride right along with King Abudullah and Queen Rania. Some person speculate this was some sign of a rift between Hamazh and Queen Noor. It is uttered that Hamazh is looking to secure his position as Crown Prince by isolating his mother. I don;t know, but I find this illedged behavior quite disheartening to hear from a son whose mother who has fought to help secure his place and title. :(
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  #46  
Old 07-01-2004, 07:08 PM
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Nope I didn't buy that statement - but like I said - what a smart 'public relations' statement.. It was a huge and luxurious wedding - but my point was that he's showing by what he's saying and doing that he wants to be king..
That's so sad about QN at the Sandhurst graduation... I do think she is a constant reminder of KH - but instead of trying to tear her down - they should work together because in the end KA will never be KH - doubtful he will be even close to being as loved, respected and admired... and keeping Noor out isn't going to change that...
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  #47  
Old 07-01-2004, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by QueenB@Jul 1st, 2004 - 6:08 pm
Nope I didn't buy that statement - but like I said - what a smart 'public relations' statement.. It was a huge and luxurious wedding - but my point was that he's showing by what he's saying and doing that he wants to be king..
That's so sad about QN at the Sandhurst graduation... I do think she is a constant reminder of KH - but instead of trying to tear her down - they should work together because in the end KA will never be KH - doubtful he will be even close to being as loved, respected and admired... and keeping Noor out isn't going to change that...
It's clear to me, too, that C.P. Hamzah wants to be king. But I think he's blinded to his mother's needs by that ambition, and I don't think that is such an admirable quality.
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  #48  
Old 07-01-2004, 10:58 PM
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IF Queen Noor was, in fact, treated disrespectfully at her son's wedding celebration then all concerned should be ashamed of themselves and she should tell the Royal Family she has decided to resign as scapegoat ad infinitum--and the position is up for grabs. All the woman has ever done--particularly during the Gulf War--is try to get people to understand the position of Jordan and see the country in a sympathetic light. She did the same in her autobiography.

If present behavior holds true and continues, KA's autobiography should run about 10 pages and QR's would be nothing but a treatise on haute couture. As for Hamzah, IF he treated his mother disrespectfully, he deserves what he gets--perpetual runner-up status for monarch. He might do well to spend time with his uncle who was displaced to learn how to handle it when he get the news KA names a son of his King.

Personally, I think weddings bring out the worst in people. The focus always seems to shift from this is a joyous occasion for the bride and groom to who gets invited, who sits where, who wears a nicer dress or more fabulous jewels.....sounds like what happened in Amman.....and I'm disgusted!
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  #49  
Old 07-01-2004, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by QueenB@Jul 1st, 2004 - 10:10 pm
Also, in the Vanity Fair article it is mentioned that QN used to be criticized because people felt she spent too much on jewelry.... I've seen QN wear the same dress over and over and over again....
QN, I think, has learned to be more discreet and more sensitive to the fact that she represents a poor nation. QR has yet to wake up to that realization.
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Old 07-01-2004, 11:56 PM
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I'm not very fond of Noor, but if Hamzah has been treating her bad, then he is definitely wrong. All that for a position that may or may not exist considering everything that is going on in the Middle East at the moment. Parents are everything. I don't think KH would be pleased if what everyone is saying is true. Bad Hamzah!
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  #51  
Old 07-02-2004, 12:13 AM
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treating her badly??,LOL
where do you ppl get that conclusions from??
based from some pictures or video footages??
gosh,they have private lives.
I'm sure he adores his mum
i'm sure they both would chocke from laughing after reading this threads
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  #52  
Old 07-02-2004, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by zento@Jul 2nd, 2004 - 12:13 am
treating her badly??,LOL
where do you ppl get that conclusions from??
based from some pictures or video footages??
gosh,they have private lives.
I'm sure he adores his mum
i'm sure they both would chocke from laughing after reading this threads
I never said that he was treating her wrong, I said if he was treating her wrong, then he is wrong. I can't speak for other members.
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  #53  
Old 07-02-2004, 01:11 AM
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Queen Noor has been dissected for the way the children were raised and we've all wondered why some dislike her so.

1. Queen Zein did not like Noor so if she took over responsibility for raising
Haya, Ali and Abir perhaps her feelings registered with them.

2. The other children had mothers; I think Queen Noor was showing respect to them by not trying to be their "parent."

3. If any child is going to resent anyone it should be the eldest, Alia. Once her parents divorced (while the wife was out of the country), she was not allowed back in and not allowed to see her child for five years. It took Princess' Muna's intercession to bring them together. Alia should be mad at her dad; not Noor--she wasn't even around back then.

4. It all reminds me a bit of the Onassis kids' hatred of Jackie Kennedy. She tried but they rebuffed her because their wish was their father would remarry their mother. No matter what she did, they treated her with cruel remarks 'till she gave up. And, just as Cristina and Alexander believed and convinced their father Jackie brought bad luck to the family, Queen Alia's kids might harbor some of those feelings. They lost their mother and father two days, albeit many years apart. Both young. I'm sure having their father all to themselves then having a new "mom" hated by grandma was confusing, unsettling and may account for their feelings.

Any thoughts?
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  #54  
Old 07-02-2004, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by maryshawn@Jul 2nd, 2004 - 12:11 am
Queen Noor has been dissected for the way the children were raised and we've all wondered why some dislike her so.

1. Queen Zein did not like Noor so if she took over responsibility for raising
Haya, Ali and Abir perhaps her feelings registered with them.

2. The other children had mothers; I think Queen Noor was showing respect to them by not trying to be their "parent."

3. If any child is going to resent anyone it should be the eldest, Alia. Once her parents divorced (while the wife was out of the country), she was not allowed back in and not allowed to see her child for five years. It took Princess' Muna's intercession to bring them together. Alia should be mad at her dad; not Noor--she wasn't even around back then.

4. It all reminds me a bit of the Onassis kids' hatred of Jackie Kennedy. She tried but they rebuffed her because their wish was their father would remarry their mother. No matter what she did, they treated her with cruel remarks 'till she gave up. And, just as Cristina and Alexander believed and convinced their father Jackie brought bad luck to the family, Queen Alia's kids might harbor some of those feelings. They lost their mother and father two days, albeit many years apart. Both young. I'm sure having their father all to themselves then having a new "mom" hated by grandma was confusing, unsettling and may account for their feelings.

Any thoughts?
The kids are just plain ridiculous. They were never abused. They've had everything they've ever needed and more. They have no reason to be angry at anyone. It's the Jordanian people who should be angry, having to foot the bill of a family as dysfunctional as this one.
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Old 07-02-2004, 08:13 AM
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I also think that with Hamzah being more traditional than Abdullah, he would never want his wife to be a media loving wannabe Hollywood starlet.
Princess Noor is cute, but not a world class beauty. Now, if she turns up with a new nose, then we should start to worry!(Noor and Rania have both had nose jobs)

None of this behaviour is surprising. This is what happens when you have ex wives, wives and kids from four different women. I would say that at this point, these kids are just looking out for their own individual interests.
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  #56  
Old 07-02-2004, 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by QueenB@Jun 30th, 2004 - 11:17 pm

I've always wondered if QN and Princess Muna got along... at the Spanish wedding, they sat next to each other and were chatting... but it seems like the less we see of Noor, the more we see of QR and Princess Muna....

I don't know where all the rifts began..... perhaps it was Muna's jealousy that King Hussein married QN and made her Queen..... or because people felt QN was pushing Hamzah into the spotlight or was too whatever...... but it seems like their issues just keep snowballing into even bigger issues and more hostility between all of them.....
It is not a surprise that we see more of Muna. She is the king's mother. The political situation at the time of her marriage was a lot different .. the king was marrying a young women, basic education, worked as a secretary as her father served in the military and was based in Jordan. There was a lot of antipathy toward Britain at the time, as Britain was still the primary power, although a fading power in the Arab world in the early 60s. Thus, the British=born Toni Gardiner was not going to be named queen -- by the late 70s, the political situation was different. Hussein was far more in control, and he was marrying an American woman, Princeton grad, 1/4th Arab, whose father had served in different govt related positions ...conversely, the former Lisa Halaby renounced her US citizenship, and was determined to become a Jordanian ..in service to the country.

Mind you, Noor was not always popular in Jordan .
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Old 07-02-2004, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by zento@Jul 2nd, 2004 - 12:13 am
treating her badly??,LOL
where do you ppl get that conclusions from??
based from some pictures or video footages??
gosh,they have private lives.
I'm sure he adores his mum
i'm sure they both would chocke from laughing after reading this threads   
Noor would never admit the truth in full on any subject in regrads to her personal life. I have been reading her book recently,and in my opinion, it is an example of a women in denial about her personal life so to speak. She alludes the the truth and speaks one sided; it is all about what sounds good and makes her appear above medocrity. It does not have to look good-- asetheically to QNoor. Her marriage, her in-law (Queen Zein), and family life in gerneral with Hussein all his childern, including their own, was not all that ideal, but whose life is? Yet, her book seems to place her above pitiness and conflict; it would appear she some how transcends something in the book, but what it is I have yet to find it.

But back to the subject. Queen Noor and Prince Hamzah would not ever be in a room together laughing about us "riduclous" persons who speculate about the state of their relationship because i believe it would hit close to home. Some people cannot face the truth until it becames the a mirror of themselves that they are forced to see when faced the the evitable, namely in this situation the reality being the son she rised, with the help of nannies of course, will never be the king she had expected him to be, and in his mind, even if that means isolating himself from is mother to be in favor of the "Almighty Abdullah" and the "Queens of Queens Rania." QNoor tried but lost out in the end.
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  #58  
Old 07-02-2004, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akilah@Jul 2nd, 2004 - 10:58 am
Noor would never admit the truth in full on any subject in regrads to her personal life. I have been reading her book recently,and in my opinion, it is an example of a women in denial about her personal life so to speak.

But back to the subject. Queen Noor and Prince Hamzah would not ever be in a room together laughing about us "riduclous" person who speculate about the state of their relationship because i believe it would hit close to home. Some people cannot face the truth until it becames the a mirror of themselves that they are forced to see when faced the the evitable, namely in this situation the reality being the son she rised, with the help of nannies of course, will never be the king she had expected him to be, and in his mind he will even if that means isolating himself from is mother to be in favor of the "Almighty Abdullah" and the "Queens of Queens Rania." QNoor tried but lost out in the end.
The book seems to be written with KH's legacy in mind. I didn't learn much about QN from it, other than that either she's not a very introspective person who can be truthful with herself or that she is too private to be able to write a more forthcoming memoir of her life. To me, it seemed she really wanted to write a first draft of history about her husband, but her picture on the cover would sell more books in the West, where more of the money is.

As a product of a "broken" home myself, I can vouch that it's not easy being the child of two parents whose marriage has been a bust. But, at some point, some/most of us grow up, take responsibility for ourselves and our decisions, and quit blaming the parental units for all that is wrong in our lives. At this point, even though I am sorry for the pain QN's stepchildren experienced in their youth, the public whining about it and the inability to show at least some civility to her is getting a little old. I'm just not sympathetic to them. All of them are old enough now to be able to look back and realize that QN was just 26 when she stepped into a very difficult, almost impossible role vis-a-vis the stepchildren (not to mention all the cultural and "career" role adjustments she would have been experiencing at the same time). She was completely outnumbered and probably overwhelmed. How could she possibly make up for the loss of, e.g., Q Alia or, for Abeer, both Abeer's mother and her adopted mother? I'll know the stepchildren have become true adults when they can interact with her with more civility, even if they do it only because QN was the person KH, their father, chose for his partner.

As for the biological children, well I hope the three youngest ones have a more normal relationship with QN. Like you, Akilah, I think QN and CP Hamzah would never be able to laugh if they read this thread and others on this site. It might cause them to look at their situation as some of us on the outside do, which is with sadness and some anger at CP Hamzah. I just don't see any valid excuse for his behavior.
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Old 07-02-2004, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bluetortuga+Jul 2nd, 2004 - 6:34 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bluetortuga @ Jul 2nd, 2004 - 6:34 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-QueenB@Jul 1st, 2004 - 11:30 pm
Who knows what Rania thinks..&nbsp; maybe that&#39;s how she reasons.... Now I wonder just what Princess Noor&#39;s role is going to be in that entire situation... think she&#39;ll become a fashion savvy woman?
P Noor will forever be in Q Rania&#39;s shadow. She is not a beautiful girl. As superficial as it sounds, you won&#39;t see the media beating the path to P Noor&#39;s door because she&#39;s no match for Rania in terms of looks. P. Noor&#39;s going to have to compete in brains. [/b][/quote]
i agree with u&#33; However rania wasn&#39;t class bueaty when she was 22&#33; from what i remember in her wedding (i was in jordan at that time) she was nothing special. As for Noor&#39;s looks she&#39;ll soon develope into a more &#39;prettier&#39; looking young lady, and by that i mean she&#39;ll b looked after by designers and she&#39;ll b wearing more make-up and so on and so forth.
I also do think that she&#39;ll have an effective role in the family and will play an effective role in the media, however Rania might not want her to steal her thunder, even though that might sound hard to believe, it might just happen&#33;
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Old 07-02-2004, 06:49 PM
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If there is any truth to the stories of how Hamzah has treated his mother then he is not fit to be king. He is a hypocrite and an ungrateful son.
I&#39;m curious to know what it is exactly that CP Hamzah has done toward his mother. She above all wanted him to become CP if he couldn&#39;t be king immediately. She would have realised that his duties as CP require him to follow a very different life than her own now which is one very much to her own choosing and schedule. So where is the rift, or the disagreements, or disloyalties people keep referencing? She seems very proud of him whenever she speaks of him as much as she does of any of her children.
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