Queen Noor & Princess Sarvath: their relationship

[SemiPatriot83]

Does anybody know the relationship between Q. Noor and P. Sarvarth? Do they get along?

[madonna23]

Do they get along?

hardly.

[Lalla Meriem]

No, they do not get along. I think blind hate would be a better description.

[Fireweaver]

Pardon my ignorance, but why do they hate each other?

[madonna23]

i don't think they hate each other...too strong of a word, no? i think they dislike each other...it could be for a number of reasons...but i think it's mostly because when hassan was crown prince, there was a lot of talk that sarvath and hassan were spreading rumors about noor...

[Fireweaver]

Hmmm. I can see why they're not hanging out all the time then :)

[Alexandria]

And no doubt there is further resentment of Queen Noor since Prince Hassan was cast aside as King in lieu of his nephew Abdullah, to be succeeded by Queen Noor's son Hamzah. I've read stories (not sure if they are merely rumours exactly) that Queen Noor really wanted Hamzah to succeed King Hussein but because he was too young, Abdullah did instead, and that Noor played a big part in Hassan not being made to succeed his brother.

That would cause a lot of tension and reason for dislike between the two ladies, I would think.

[madonna23]

so i guess mainly why they don't particularly like each other is because both are part of a power struggle in jordan...similar to the way rania and noor are now.

[Humera]

such awful family politics....i think its so sad

[Alexandria]

How wealthy and comfortably do Prince Hassan and Princess Sarvath live these days? I am not sure what their present situation is (though I am sure they are not exactly living in poverty) but I'm sure that if today Prince Hassan were King Hassan, their lives would be much more luxurious. And a power struggle as madonna23 mentioned, and money are two very big reasons for tension and discord between two people, family or not.

[madonna23]

you're right, alexandria...money and power most often lead to tension and animositiy...it makes me kind of happy that i don't have either of those!! :P

[Banadoora]

It's been rumoured that P Sarvath and P Hassan were spreading very bad rumours about Q Noor and her kids. I don't know how true that is, and which rumours these were. There was one rumour in particular, that went around early on in Q Noor's marriage to K Hussein, that she was a CIA agent. I get the impression, from everything that I've read, that she blames P Hassan and P Sarvath for starting it.

But I don't know, I'm reading rumours about rumours. I'm not sure how true they are.

[Alexandria]

Originally posted by Banadoora@Feb 23rd, 2004 - 2:13 pm
But I don't know, I'm reading rumours about rumours. I'm not sure how true they are.

I've read the same rumours, too, Bandoora. And you're probably quite right about it being rumours from rumours.

But where there's smoke ...

[maryshawn]

Originally posted by Banadoora@Feb 23rd, 2004 - 3:13 pm
It's been rumoured that P Sarvath and P Hassan were spreading very bad rumours about Q Noor and her kids. I don't know how true that is, and which rumours these were. There was one rumour in particular, that went around early on in Q Noor's marriage to K Hussein, that she was a CIA agent. I get the impression, from everything that I've read, that she blames P Hassan and P Sarvath for starting it.

But I don't know, I'm reading rumours about rumours. I'm not sure how true they are.

In a Vanity Fair article posted in 1991, during Gulf War or around that time, it was already said by Dominick Dunne, a respected journalist, there was a tense relationship between QN and a "sister in law and ex sister in law." Learning more, Sarvath considered herself Queen in waiting and a great intellectual and though Noor was just a fluffy, bejewelled sub for Queen Alia. She did not go out of her way to make QN comfortable or teach her the ropes, as it were.

Tensions got out of control when Princess Sarvath redecorated KH's offices while he was at Mayo. He heard about it and was very, very angry. She did not visit him and a palace official was quoted as saying "they acted as if they knew the king was dying and didn't care." Another insider said "there was indisbutably a campaign against QN. She was rumored to have a child out of wedlock, jewish by birth, a spy for the CIA and all her kids were on drugs." King Hussein mentioned this in his final letter changing succession saying "I attributed these rumors to those who pretended to be faithful to you......QN is a Jordanian in every sense and has hid her tears behind smiles." And then it was adieu to Sarvath and her husband, which was deserved, in my humble opinion as they showed themselves to be petty, self-serving liars who--even if they didn't start the rumors--had the power to shut them down FAST. And they could've treated the King's illness with more compassion. They are both pompous boors---said one official--and I think that pretty much sums them up.

[shelley]

Originally posted by maryshawn@Jul 17th, 2004 - 12:06 am
.

But I don't know, I'm reading rumours about rumours. I'm not sure how true they are.

In a Vanity Fair article posted in 1991, during Gulf War or around that time, it was already said by Dominick Dunne, a respected journalist, there was a tense relationship between QN and a "sister in law and ex sister in law." Learning more, Sarvath considered herself Queen in waiting and a great intellectual and though Noor was just a fluffy, bejewelled sub for Queen Alia. She did not go out of her way to make QN comfortable or teach her the ropes, as it were.

Tensions got out of control when Princess Sarvath redecorated KH's offices while he was at Mayo. He heard about it and was very, very angry. She did not visit him and a palace official was quoted as saying "they acted as if they knew the king was dying and didn't care." [/quote]
With reference to the now well worn rumour about P. Sarvath redecorating the King's offices. I have mentioned previously that this rumour was completely discounted in Jordan itself within weeks of the late King's death when people visited the palace and found it totally unchanged ( it has now been completely rennovated by the present King). The runours were based on a visit P. Sarvath paid to the guest palace kitchens ahead of a visit of theGerman President whose wise was ailing and travelled with a cook and a dietician. Palce officials were panicking as they felt the kitchen were not in a fit state to recieve foreigners. P. Sarvath visited the kichen accompanied by various palace officials including the Head of the Royal Court, the Lord Chamberlain and when they found that the kitchens were indeed in filthy and run down, she asked that they be rennovated. I also know from people who were actually travelled with the Princess, she waited for one week in the US trying to see the King; on two other occasions she was stopped half way there. She was not the only member of the family who were not able to see the King in his last illness and this applied to close friends of his as well.

I do not know whether P. Hassan and P. Sarvath are pompous boors but somehow that does not seem to fit in with people who between them have done much to improve the educational and cultural scene in Jordan and continue to do so. This has been detailedly mentioned by a Jordanian, Alia Musallam, in an earlier post some months back. But I have now realised that many people who are members of LTR have only really started following the doings of the JRF in the past few years. P. Sarvath was never in the public eye; and so it is easy to do a character assination on someone no one really knows much about and only heard about a few short years ago.

[shelley]

Sorry, typo ...' German president's wife'.

[shelley]

Originally posted by maryshawn@Jul 17th, 2004 - 12:06 am

In a Vanity Fair article posted in 1991, during Gulf War or around that time, it was already said by Dominick Dunne, a respected journalist, there was a tense relationship between QN and a "sister in law and ex sister in law."

I do remember that in nineties when it was well known that Q. Noor was having run ins with her in laws. I have asked my Jordanian friends to refresh my memory of that time. This is what they have come up with. I have been accused of being too vague by some members so I will try and be more specific. Please do remember that Amman, capital city though it may be, functions like a village, and everyone knows everything about everyone, and the favorite hobby is gossiping about the JRF. Confidentiality is not much practised, even by doctors !

P. Firyal, ex wife of P. Mohammed was furious to return to Jordan ( she mainly lives in the US and UK now ) to find her possessions packed up in cartons, as that it had been decided that her home Mohammedia, which she and P. Mohammed had built together, and had lived in throughout her marriage, and had been gievn to her after their divorce, had been taken over by K. Hussein and Q. Noor to use as their home. Q Noor had long been disatissfied with their home down town , despite remodelling and redecorating that home three times ( once they moved out for a whole year and got a British firm to virtually remake the house )and was searching for somewhere to live. They had started building a new house and then after the foundations were done she backed out of that project ( this is the house that K. Abdullah Q. Rania have now finished for their use ) ; then a house was bought for them, and partially rennovated, before she changed her mind about that as well ( this is the house the present king and queen have lived in since their marriage) and then she chose P. Firyal's house, which has been completely remodelled and is now called Bab As Salam. P. Firyal has since had a new home built but is understood to be quite bitter about the way in which her home was hijacked.

Q. Noor was very upset that the King had appointed P. Basma to form and head the Jordanian National Commission for Women, which was to be a precursor to the Beijing Women's Conference and was generally to be the umbrella oganisation under which womens' affairs would be dealt with. She also felt sore about the Queen Alia Fund which P. Basma ran efficently, as not only was it successful and well respected, but some said it kept the memory of predecessor too alive for her taste. There was a highly visible argument between the two ladies at the Airport on one occasion.

P. Sarvath had been running the Jordanian Red Crescent on behalf of the Queen Mother Zein for several years ( K. Hussein as Head of State was Hon. President ) Soon after the Gulf War, Queen Zein handed over her responsibilties formally to P. Sarvath , and shortly after this K. Hussein issued a Royal decree appointed P. S. as his Vice President, with active reponsibility of the Red Crescent in Jordan. Q. Noor was reputedly very put out by this decision and tried to get this changed, and also tried to replace the King as Hon. President.

All of these various incidents can provide more than enough material for a journalist to conclude that Q. Noor's relationship with her in laws was less that ideal. This was also apparant a couple of years later when Q. Noor hosted a party to celebrate their 2Oth Wedding Anniversary, at which none of the King's family ( brother, sister, cousins ) were present, and nor any Jordanians. There was little socialising between Q. Noor and K. Hussein and his family, although it was noticed and accepted that during her increasngly frequent absences from the country he would make a point of spending a lot of time with all his family and old friends. He would drop into P. Hassan and P. Sarvath's home for a meal, or just to enjoy their garden, and hold meetings there. This is not hearsay, but directly from the lips of those who would be called to meet with the king and would be as likely to find the meeting being held around P. Hassan's dining room table as in the King's home or offices.

It was around this time that the King first fell ill. It is clear that Q. Noor could see the writing on the wall, and was determined to make her profile and presence as strong as possible. Even if the king had not died as prematurely as he finally did, he was seventeen years older than her, and it would have been reasonable to assume he would predecease her. Q. Noor was clearly preparing for 'the day after'. Many of the projects which are shown under her cv were actaually in existance before she married the king, and she basically just took them over, although she left the day to day running to the founders! Here I am referring the Royal Conservatory of Music and the National Gallery, which were founded by an aunt and cousin of the king, and were well established . I can only assume that she found it frustraing that her sisters in law were not as pliable to her demands as less important members of the family had to be.

I think many people have gotten a rather one sided view of events in Jordan, largely because certainly in the time of K. Hussein and Q. Noor, they were the only members of the JRF who were well known international figures. No one else in the family has given as many interviews as Q. Noor, nor written a book. I think many of the other family members have basically gotten a bad press simply because there just wasn't much press about them in the first place, so there was a blank canvas to paint on. I have not yet read Q. Noor's book but so many Jordanians have told me that it is frustrating experience as there are so many inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

I am not 'against' Q. Noor as a person. I just think that she was a young woman who bit off more than she could chew in her fairly rushed marriage, and then when she found that life was not all a bed of roses, she sought to compensate by developing her public role. . Naturally, anyone who could thwart her ambitions (either directly, or just by existing, as in the case of P. Sarvath ) would not be her favorite person. And perhaps she found that she was more interested in public matters than her family. I believe she has admitted as much in her book, saying that she did not find herself a naturally maternal person, leaving much of the childrearing to nannies etc. In an interview I read many years ago she said that the king actually told her not to use any models or turn to anyone for advice, but to do things her own way. If this was the case, he did her a disservice as many of the misunderstandings etc. might have been avoided if another policy had been followed.

[maryshawn]

Originally posted by shelley@Jul 17th, 2004 - 3:00 am

In a Vanity Fair article posted in 1991, during Gulf War or around that time, it was already said by Dominick Dunne, a respected journalist, there was a tense relationship between QN and a "sister in law and ex sister in law." Learning more, Sarvath considered herself Queen in waiting and a great intellectual and though Noor was just a fluffy, bejewelled sub for Queen Alia. She did not go out of her way to make QN comfortable or teach her the ropes, as it were.

Tensions got out of control when Princess Sarvath redecorated KH's offices while he was at Mayo. He heard about it and was very, very angry. She did not visit him and a palace official was quoted as saying "they acted as if they knew the king was dying and didn't care."

With reference to the now well worn rumour about P. Sarvath redecorating the King's offices. I have mentioned previously that this rumour was completely discounted in Jordan itself within weeks of the late King's death when people visited the palace and found it totally unchanged ( it has now been completely rennovated by the present King). The runours were based on a visit P. Sarvath paid to the guest palace kitchens ahead of a visit of theGerman President whose wise was ailing and travelled with a cook and a dietician. Palce officials were panicking as they felt the kitchen were not in a fit state to recieve foreigners. P. Sarvath visited the kichen accompanied by various palace officials including the Head of the Royal Court, the Lord Chamberlain and when they found that the kitchens were indeed in filthy and run down, she asked that they be rennovated. I also know from people who were actually travelled with the Princess, she waited for one week in the US trying to see the King; on two other occasions she was stopped half way there. She was not the only member of the family who were not able to see the King in his last illness and this applied to close friends of his as well.

I do not know whether P. Hassan and P. Sarvath are pompous boors but somehow that does not seem to fit in with people who between them have done much to improve the educational and cultural scene in Jordan and continue to do so. This has been detailedly mentioned by a Jordanian, Alia Musallam, in an earlier post some months back. But I have now realised that many people who are members of LTR have only really started following the doings of the JRF in the past few years. P. Sarvath was never in the public eye; and so it is easy to do a character assination on someone no one really knows much about and only heard about a few short years ago. [/quote]
Dear Shelley,

I am very open to clarifications and was referencing documented accounts found in Roland Holland's book and 2 articles in Vanity Fair written by excellent journalists who had no reason to be partial to QN one way or another. I stand corrected and will now discount--thanks to your info--Sarvath's "redecorating."

You can't discount totally KH's last letter which did indeed reference to Prince Hassan rumors "and here I am talking about my small family" which were vicious "and I attributed to those who pretend to be close to you." So, there were rumors--but as has been rightly pointed out this is a country filled with rumors.

In terms of your last comment that it is apparent some member of LTR basically have recently started following the JRF, I have followed it since 1977, the year QA died. That makes me perhaps not as informed as you but certainly gives some idea that I am not some newcomer who just glommed onto a bunch of rumors and feel like commenting on them.

Thank you for your clarifications.

[pepep]

Originally posted by maryshawn@Jul 17th, 2004 - 6:33 pm

In terms of your last comment that it is apparent some member of LTR basically have recently started following the JRF, I have followed it since 1977, the year QA died. That makes me perhaps not as informed as you but certainly gives some idea that I am not some newcomer who just glommed onto a bunch of rumors and feel like commenting on them.

I’m not sure on what criteria Shelley concluded that members of LTR have only really started following the doings of the JRF in the past few years. I’m not sure. I don’t follow JFR, but they I part of the world.