Queen Alia's words to Princess Haya - Page 2

papillon · #21 09-01-2004, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

but (as i have said before) after reading qn's book-her husband seemed like 'the husband from hell' and now 'the father from hell'.

To paraphrase the late Jacqueline Kennedy. . .if you fail at parenting, it doesn't really matter what the rest of your accomplishments might be, you're still a failure. Sorry, I'm a hard buns about people who bring children into this world and then decide they don't really want to finish the job of raising them.

Ipi Tombe · #22 09-01-2004, 11:34 PM

enter stage door right: english boarding schools.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by papillon

To paraphrase the late Jacqueline Kennedy. . .if you fail at parenting, it doesn't really matter what the rest of your accomplishments might be, you're still a failure. Sorry, I'm a hard buns about people who bring children into this world and then decide they don't really want to finish the job of raising them.

shelley · #23 09-02-2004, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

shelley, i read that you said that ph was kh's favorite. why did he treat his daughter this way if she was his favorite?

She was his favourite daughter. Hamzah eventually became his favourite son, no question of that. And by his lights he was a devoted, generous parent. However, I have often thought about about the late king's other personal relations. With his wives, some of his close friends, his other family members; and have long ago come to the conclusion that he was quite a sad and to a certain degree damaged human being on the emotional level. He had a father who was often unwell, (although by all accounts a brilliant and kindly man ) who had a poor relationship with his father, the fallout of which was felt by Hussein and his parents and siblings. ( I have also wondered how much of his illness was as a direct result of the treatment he received at his father's hands, who thought that Talal had outlandish modern ideas such as wanting to go to university, and marry a woman of his own choosing - its all in the official records about Jordan which make fascinating reading - truth often being stranger than fiction) The late king was basically removed from his parents' care at a young age and brought up by his grandfather and would therefore have sub-consiously at least, been a victim of some sort of emotional tug of war between his parents and grandfather. He had a very sketchy education from a modern point of view ( no academic qualifications on paper) although an excellent classical education ( his command of the Arabic language was superb). He saw his grandfather killed before him at sixteen, became king at eighteen. Married way too young the first time ( but from his own choice ) probably to assert himself, and then started on ther slippery slope that ended up with four wives, eleven children, countless other relationships. But basically, it is difficult to give what you don't have, and what he didn't have was a 'normal' balanced childhood. :( And when such a person is in a position to affect other people's lives, phew !! And on the similar note, Q. Noor, in her book, admits that her childhood was also less than ideal. So two perhaps well intentioned but emotionally scarred people couldn't set the stage for happy families.

Balqis · #24 09-02-2004, 06:30 AM

Shelley, I would be very interested to know what you think of King Abdullah's childhood. How do you think he was raised? What was the impact on his parents' divorce on him. I realize this is way off topic here. So perhaps this can be moved into another new or relevant thread if moderators object.

papillon · #25 09-02-2004, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelley

But basically, it is difficult to give what you don't have, and what he didn't have was a 'normal' balanced childhood. :(

Couldn't agree with you more about this, Shelley, but one still has to wonder, then, why have so many children? I am empathetic to the plight of not having an idyllic or even normal childhood, but I am puzzled as to why anyone with that background would bring so many children into the world without first seeing, with maybe the first couple, yes, okay, I can do this, I'm a good parent.

papillon · #26 09-02-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelley

She was his favourite daughter. Hamzah eventually became his favourite son, no question of that.

Am I the only one bugged by this whole notion of a parent declaring one son and daughter the favorites?

Is this just a cultural thing?

Ipi Tombe · #27 09-02-2004, 09:17 PM

butterfly:

i think all parent's have their favorites (many days i prefer my hairbrained terrier over my 2yr old daughter) but i think in the middle east the title 'the favorite' has much more weight quite possibly because the families are so much larger. the title denotes that your parent might actually know you exist. compare how much time our parents had for us (it seems most of us are from smaller 'western-sized' families and then divide that time over the span of 12 kids (as in the case of KH or 27 as in the case of Shk Mo or 130 as in the case of Shk Zayed). so you see being favorite starts having some kind relevance as more and more kids come along.......

papillon · #28 09-02-2004, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

butterfly:

i think all parent's have their favorites (many days i prefer my hairbrained terrier over my 2yr old daughter) but i think in the middle east the title 'the favorite' has much more weight quite possibly because the families are so much larger. the title denotes that your parent might actually know you exist. compare how much time our parents had for us (it seems most of us are from smaller 'western-sized' families and then divide that time over the span of 12 kids (as in the case of KH or 27 as in the case of Shk Mo or 130 as in the case of Shk Zayed). so you see being favorite starts having some kind relevance as more and more kids come along.......

Good point, Ipi. I'm not so naive to think parents don't actually have their favorites, but to say so so openly and publicly is the part that gets to me. But at least in larger families, the nonfavorites can glom together and commiserate in the knowledge that they totally outnumber the favorite. It's not quite so insulting. In smaller families, this would create such tension. There might be only one nonfavorite. . .how lonely and cruel!

sommone · #29 09-02-2004, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papillon

Am I the only one bugged by this whole notion of a parent declaring one son and daughter the favorites?

Is this just a cultural thing?

No, papillon I am also bugged by it as well.

papillon · #30 09-02-2004, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sommone

No, papillon I am also bugged by it as well.

Thanks, Sommone. Thought I might be the only one sensitive to this issue.
:o

sommone · #31 09-02-2004, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papillon

Good point, Ipi. I'm not so naive to think parents don't actually have their favorites, but to say so so openly and publicly is the part that gets to me. But at least in larger families, the nonfavorites can glom together and commiserate in the knowledge that they totally outnumber the favorite. It's not quite so insulting. In smaller families, this would create such tension. There might be only one nonfavorite. . .how lonely and cruel!

I agree it is cruel to voice in the open that you have one favorite daughter and one favortie son out of 12 children...Imagine how everyone else must feel. Don't get me wrong, I think KH loved all of his children, but not equally. Which brings to mind if Haya was his favorite daughter then why was she allowed to be raised by other family members instead of being home? I have an older brother, and I am my mother's favorite child...up until now, I never thought how it might affect my brother, or I never looked at it through his eyes...

papillon · #32 09-02-2004, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sommone

I agree it is cruel to voice in the open that you have one favorite daughter and one favortie son out of 12 children...Imagine how everyone else must feel. Don't get me wrong, I think KH loved all of his children, but not equally. Which brings to mind if Haya was his favorite daughter then why was she allowed to be raised by other family members instead of being home? I have an older brother, and I am my mother's favorite child...up until now, I never thought how it might affect my brother, or I never looked at it through his eyes...

When my grandfather died last summer, quite a few of us grandchildren discovered that we each thought we were his favorite. :p I think this is a hallmark of good parenting or grandparenting. It's too bad KH's children didn't all feel that way when he died.

I agree that it's probably not possible to love each child equally. . .maybe differently, for they are different people. But it still bothers me that a parent would make this so known, not just within the family, but globally.

sommone · #33 09-02-2004, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papillon

Thanks, Sommone. Thought I might be the only one sensitive to this issue.
:o

Your very welcome

Angie · #34 09-02-2004, 11:07 PM

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Originally Posted by shelley

eleven children, . .

He had 12 children, let's not forget Miss Abir!

Angie · #35 09-02-2004, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sommone

I agree it is cruel to voice in the open that you have one favorite daughter and one favortie son out of 12 children...Imagine how everyone else must feel....

I'm sure they were delighted to hear this!

NOT. All this is just so sad.

papillon · #36 09-02-2004, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angie

I'm sure they were delighted to hear this!

NOT. All this is just so sad.

Well, I'm sure it is nice to be P. Hamzah and P. Haya! At least they get to live with the certainty that they were loved and cherished above all the others.

But I really hope the next generation of royals has less complicated love lives and/or fewer children, the latter especially if they are not good at parenting. The bad parenting gene runs in vicious cycles within families. This is borne out in empirical studies. . .it'd be a shame if each of KH's offspring has as many children as he had (unless they get therapy. . .could probably get group rates or a quantity discount on that :) ).

maryshawn · #37 09-03-2004, 12:24 AM

Perhaps she heard this from her mother and then her nanny and father.....so while not a true memory, it could've been passed along to her---you know how it is "when your mother was alive, you asked her.....and she said...."

QUOTE=Ipi Tombe]okay, PH was 2 when QA died.

all mommy's in the group whose 2yr old daughter can cogizantly remember conversations-please raise your hand. much less about such abstract thoughts as 'queens' and 'husbands'.

puhlease. your comment maryshawn about haya acting like a 20yr old is right on target. the girl needs to grow up. mo ain't her daddy (and she needs to quit acting like he is-his kids have a million times more dignity and class) and she is never going to be queen of anything-Dubai included.[/quote]

papillon · #38 09-03-2004, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryshawn

Perhaps she heard this from her mother and then her nanny and father.....so while not a true memory, it could've been passed along to her---you know how it is "when your mother was alive, you asked her.....and she said...."

This seems far more likely to me, too. Either that or P. Haya had a fertile imagination as a child and can no longer separate fact from fantasy.

Ipi Tombe · #39 09-03-2004, 12:48 AM

the latter. have you seen her husband? fantasy, baby. all fantasy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papillon

This seems far more likely to me, too. Either that or P. Haya had a fertile imagination as a child and can no longer separate fact from fantasy.

papillon · #40 09-03-2004, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

the latter. have you seen her husband? fantasy, baby. all fantasy.

Oh, Ipi, you're killing me!