Prince Hassan & Princess Sarvath: Current Events, Part 3

Lyonnaise · #1 09-06-2005, 02:51 AM

Welcome to the third news and photo thread for Prince Hassan and Princess Sarvath. Their first thread can be found here: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5693&page=1&pp=20

Please review The Royal Forum's Posting Rules and Guidelines before making your posts, found here: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=170480#post170480. Violations of the posting rules and guidelines may result in being suspensed or being banned.

IMPORTANT: Please remember to credit all photos posted. http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...read.php?t=6455. Any uncredited photos will be deleted!

shelley · #2 09-06-2005, 03:07 AM

Shoot, Lyonnaise.I just wrote a long post which I posted as you said the thread was closed ! Can you retrieve it ? I have to go out now. Otherwise I'll do it again later !

shelley · #3 09-06-2005, 05:50 AM

With reference to Papillion's last post in the former thread :

The fact that P.Hassan and P. Sarvath are/were ot well known in many parts of the US exactly underlines my point of view. Their low profile was PR firm's( and we know that Q. oor employed more than one, particularly in the US and the UK) nirvana. Jordan for many people were the brave, assassination attempt dodging, peace making king with the easy, ready smile and his willowly blonde American Preppy wife who was determined to drag a small backback desert nation screaming into the modern world. Many people just did not appreciate the fact that in fact it was stay at home, low key, hardworking P.Hassan who was responsible for the devlopment of modern Jordan, developed the plans and got the funding, and generally supervised the industries, organistaions and infrastructure that to this day are the ones that actually work in Jordan. He was in sole charge for over six months of the year as regent when his brother was out of the country, and not always on business. P. Sarvath founded at least five projects that have had a direct impact on the lives of ordinary Jordanians. The school and sheltered workshops for the handicapped were the first of their kind in the Middle East, when they were started thirty five years ago, and remain centres of excellence. The new(ish) Red Crescent Hospital was built with funding
P.Sarvath found outside of Jordan. It provides excellent care for the poor and underprivileged. The community college which has been in exisitance for over thirty years, and continues to give girls from poor financial and educational backgrounds a chance to improve their lives. It regularly produces results that are top in the country. The courses in early childhood education and remedial teachers for students with learning difficulties were pioneer programmes in Jordan and many of the newer centres in the country are run by people who benefited from this early training. The Baccalaureate School, now over twenty five years old, completely changed the way Jordanians and Jordanian authorities viewed education in Jordan. Many programmes devloped within the school are now mainstream. For years P. Sarvath has run a workshop in the summer for government schools teachers, allowing them to be trained within the Baccalaureate, by their peers. I never was good at math. but 100 teachers, who probably are responsible for 400/500 children, over a ten/twelve years period. Eventually several thousands of children will get a knock on benefit. In addition to all of this,P. Sarvath by all accounts managed to run a home that was welcoming for her hard working husband to return to . He may jest in the interview about being to busy to stray, but I know of many very busy men who if they are not happy at home always manage to find time for a little extra curricular activity ! ( and if lil Monkey is to be believed, the couple also found time to offer hospitality to people who worked with them, in their own home, not just officially). I am afraid that the Husseins largely talked the talk and the Hassans walked the walk. Many months ago I was interested to read a post by a young Jordanian ( who has since left us, it would seem) in which she said that her father was so irritated by the gospel according to Q.Noor ( her autobiography) which distorted so many facts that he banned it from the house. For me that just about sums up the lady and her achicievements. As P.Hassan has said in the interview, maybe time will vindicate this couple.

shelley · #4 09-06-2005, 10:44 AM

Suria, I know that you are not particularly interested in P.Hassan, but did you by any chance see the interview lil Monkey translated for us ? And if so, what did you think of it. I am interested in Jordanian opinion. Thanks :o

rchainho · #5 09-06-2005, 11:28 AM

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_...StoryId=105900

Prince Hassan to attend Helsinki conference

papillon · #6 09-06-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelley

With reference to Papillion's last post in the former thread :

The fact that P.Hassan and P. Sarvath are/were ot well known in many parts of the US exactly underlines my point of view. Their low profile was PR firm's( and we know that Q. oor employed more than one, particularly in the US and the UK) nirvana.

So it's a case of nature abhorring a vacuum. :( I think many people in the US don't even know who KH and QN are (sadly!) but, of the ones who do, the impression is pretty much as you described. But I don't think it's so much the case that Americans per se give P. Hassan and P. Sarvath a bad rap, but rather PR machinery working on behalf of KH and QN ensuring that their images remain as polished as possible, regardless of whose expense it might be at. And it almost facilitates the work of these agencies that so few Americans know much about the Middle East, fewer still have traveled or lived there. In addition, as a country with no tradition of monarchy, few here understand much about how it works (e.g., that when KH was abroad, someone else was running the show back in Jordan, that members of KH's extended family also took on sometimes very significant development and humanitarian projects and responsibilities). Factor in the tendency of P. Hassan and P. Sarvath to keep their heads down, and you have almost the perfect storm. But P. Hassan is planning to come to the States this month to participate in a military conference in D.C., so obviously some people know him and his work and welcome and value his involvement.

I just find it sad that family members would go against family members in such a hurtful, public way. That fundamental betrayal is really at the heart of the storm. :(

Quote:

I never was good at math. but 100 teachers, who probably are responsible for 400/500 children, over a ten/tweleve years period. Eventually several thousands of children will get a knock on benefit.

It's more than several thousand, Shelley. It's between 4,000 and 6,000 children who have benefited from P. Sarvath's work. . .just in that one project.

Quote:

He may jest in the interview about being to busy to stray, but I know of many very busy men who is they are not happy at home always manage to find time for a little extra curricular activity !

As I read that portion of his interview, I thought to myself that often it's the most work-immersed men who are inclined to stray, usually with the women they are working with.

Quote:

I am afraid that the Husseins largely talked and the talk and the Hassans walked the walk.

Some of us have already figured this out.

Quote:

As P.Hassan has said in the interview, maybe time will vindicate this couple.

Inshallah.

houri · #7 09-06-2005, 05:49 PM

I know it is very difficult to translating from Arabic to English so thank you very much lil Monkey for your great work :)

and I hope to see the interview next friday because I want to see his son :o

I always admired prince Hassan and with every interview with him my admiration increasing .

lil Monkey · #8 09-06-2005, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houri

I know it is very difficult to translating from Arabic to English so thank you very much lil Monkey for your great work :)

and I hope to see the interview next friday because I want to see his son :o

I always admired prince Hassan and with every interview with him my admiration increasing .

Awww This is soooooooo sweet of you :o :) Thank you for ur kidness :)
Elhamdullah 3la el salameh :)

Lords · #9 09-08-2005, 03:04 PM

Thank you lil Monkey, I saw the interview hoping it would be in standard Arabic so I could understand but unfortunately it was in a Jordanian delicate. Thanks for the effort. Though I didn't get a word it was marvelous, Prince Hassan is such an amazing person, I loved the pictures that were shown and I especially enjoyed the rare footage shown about their wedding day. They both were gorgeous, I never realized how beautiful Princess Sarvath is and she transferred this beauty to her children though Sumiah looks a lot like her father. His heart laughter were really sweet and catchy so does his simplicity with the Jordanian people.

I have a few questions I hope they get answered:

How good their children's knowledge of the Pakistani language (Urdu?) and how close they are to the Pakistani life style or costume? Is their standard Arabic good? Can they all speak the way their father does? Does Princess Sarvath speak Arabic? The Traditional dress that Princess Sarvath wears, is it Indian or Pakistani? I don't know why but I thought the Pakistani traditional dress is different and what PS wears reminds me of Indian dresses (excuse my ignorance on this subject).

Why Rashid has speaking problems? Isn't such problems discovered and recognized at childhood and could be solved? Why was he left with such problem that affected his pronunciation? I recall in Prince Rashid's biography that he was in the debating team, didn't this problem affect him? Why doesn't he—according to what LM—call his father dad? I know it's a sign of respect to call him PH but still…..

And yes, Rashid is marvelously seriously cute! I couldn't help noticing how wonderful his personality is, in all the pictures he has this grumpy face, never seen him smiling but the interview changed my view on him. The segments showing him and his dad were really warm and nice. Is he single and any future wedding plans for him?

shelley · #10 09-08-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lords

I have a few questions I hope they get answered:

How good their children's knowledge of the Pakistani language (Urdu?) and how close they are to the Pakistani life style or costume? Is their standard Arabic good? Can they all speak the way their father does? Does Princess Sarvath speak Arabic? The Traditional dress that Princess Sarvath wears, is it Indian or Pakistani? I don't know why but I thought the Pakistani traditional dress is different and what PS wears reminds me of Indian dresses (excuse my ignorance on this subject).

Why Rashid has speaking problems? Isn't such problems discovered and recognized at childhood and could be solved? Why was he left with such problem that affected his pronunciation? I recall in Prince Rashid's biography that he was in the debating team, didn't this problem affect him? Why doesn't he—according to what LM—call his father dad? I know it's a sign of respect to call him PH but still…..

And yes, Rashid is marvelously seriously cute! I couldn't help noticing how wonderful his personality is, in all the pictures he has this grumpy face, never seen him smiling but the interview changed my view on him. The segments showing him and his dad were really warm and nice. Is he single and any future wedding plans for him?

I'll try answer what I can :

Firstly,I have never heard that Prince Rashid has a speaking problem? Where does that come from. As far as I know, all Prince Hassan's children speak good,competent colloquial Arabic. Princess Sarvath speaks perfectly adequate Arabic, or so I have been told, but obviously is not a native speaker of the language. She is good enough to have made speeches occasionally in Arabic. I am pretty sure Prince Rashid is not engaged so there may yet be chance for some of the fans on this forum ! I think he often looks grumpy but maybe he just doesn't like being photographed. I would think that in private Prince Rashid probably calls his father 'Baba' but I suppose in Arabic it woudl look odd for a grown man to refer to his father as Daddy ? Arabs, please correct me if I am wrong. What did Princess Sumaya refer to her father as ?

There was a huge discussion about Princess Sarvath's style of dress some months ago on this forum. The conclusion was that she mostly wore saris, which in the past few years seem to have been wore more in India and Bangladesh than in Pakistan, but then it was noted that Princess Sarvath is ethnically of Indian origin. You should look for the threads. They were very interesting. I hope this answers some of your queries :)

Little_star · #11 09-08-2005, 06:47 PM

"There was a huge discussion about Princess Sarvath's style of dress some months ago on this forum. The conclusion was that she mostly wore saris, which in the past few years seem to have been wore more in India and Bangladesh than in Pakistan, but then it was noted that Princess Sarvath is ethnically of Indian origin. You should look for the threads. They were very interesting. I hope this answers some of your queries :)"

If we're going to be technical about it then everyone from Pakistan is "ethnically" Indian, after all it was all 1 country less than 60years ago.

"On August 28th 1968, His Royal Highness married Her Royal Highness Princess Sarvath, who comes from a distinguished family of the Indian Subcontinent.Her late father, H.E. Mr. Mohammed Ikramullah worked closely with the founderof Pakistan, Mohammed Ali Janah, and was Pakistan's first Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and many times an Ambassador. Her Royal Highness's mother, Begum Shaista Suhrawardy Ikramullah, is a writer and the first female Member of Parliament in Pakistan, as well as an Ambassador. Moreover, Princess Sarvath's paternal uncle was Vice-President of India, and her maternal uncle was Prime Minister of Pakistan. Their Royal Highnesses have four children:Princess Rahma (b. 13 August 1969ý), Princess Sumaya (b. 14 May 1971), Princess Badiya (b. 28 March 1974), and Prince Rashid (b. 20 May 1979)."
http://www.rss.gov.jo/phassan.html

Traditonally the sari is associated with Indian women, the traditional dress of Pakistan is shalwar kameez (the tunic and trousers). However it's not uncommon to see women in Karachi (the largest Pakistani city) in a sari, one reason for this being that there are many people living in Karachi who fled to Pakistan when India was Partitioned. Moreover, at formal events like weddings, saris are incredibly common.

Little_star · #12 09-08-2005, 06:51 PM

Her Royal Highness was born in Calcutta on the 24th of July 1947 to a prominent family of the Indian subcontinent. Her father, the late Mohammad Ikramullah, K.C.M.G., H.Pk., was a senior member of the Indian Civil Service in the Government of India prior to Partition and represented the country in many international fora. He then joined Jinnah's Partition Committee, later becoming Pakistan's first Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and Ambassador to Canada, France, Portugal and the United Kingdom. His last post was Chairman of the Commonwealth Economic Committee. Her mother, the late Shaista Suhrawardy Ikramullah, was a writer and was Pakistan's first woman member of Parliament. Begum Ikramullah also served as Ambassador to Morocco and several times a delegate to the United Nations. The Princess lived in all the countries to which her parents were posted but mainly received her education in Britain.

His Royal Highness Crown Prince El Hassan bin Talal and Princess Sarvath married in Karachi on the 28th of August 1968. Their Royal Highnesses live in one of the oldest houses in Amman and have four children; Their Royal Highnesses Princess Rahma, Princess Sumaya, Princess Badiya and Prince Rashid and five grandchildren, Zein El Sharaf, Tariq, Ali, Sukayna and Aysha.

Her Royal Highness Princess Sarvath served Jordan for over 30 years, as the wife of The Crown Prince. The Princess initiated, sponsored, and continues to support many projects and activities in Jordan, mainly in the field of education, in addition to issues pertaining to women and the family, social welfare and health.

Her Royal Highness was appointed patron of the Young Muslim Women's Association (YMWA) in 1972. In 1974, the YMWA established the Centre for Special Education, which is regarded as a pioneer in the Middle East for the care and education of persons with mental disabilities. The success of the Centre for Special Education led to the opening of a Sheltered Workshop in 1987. The Workshop provides a safe training environment and employment for both graduates of the pre-vocational section of the Centre for Special Education, and other persons with mental disabilities. The Workshop is also recognized as a regional centre of excellence by the ILO in its field. The Princess Sarvath Community College was founded in 1980, also under the umbrella of the YMWA, to provide young women from financially disadvantaged backgrounds with the skills needed to earn an independent livelihood. The Early Childhood Education programme at the College was the first in Jordan, focusing on teacher training and curriculum development through a series of well attended workshops. The National Centre for Learning Difficulties is another project that has evolved into a national programme since its establishment at the College in 1993. It is the hope and intention of the YMWA and their Canadian partners that the centre eventually serves as a regional facility.

In June 2001, Her Royal Highness became the Honorary President of the Arab Society for Learning Difficulties, which was formed in Amman. Princess Sarvath was a member of the Council of Foundation of the International Baccalaureate Organisation (IBO). Her Royal Highness founded the Amman Baccalaureate School in 1981 and continues to Chair its Board of Trustees. This independent, non-profit, co-educational school provides students with an education of the highest international standards, while remaining firmly rooted in the Arab Islamic heritage and culture. The ABS is a flagship for the IB programmes in the Middle East. The school continues to serve as a catalyst, positively contributing to the development of both the public and the private Jordanian educational systems. Many programmes developed within the school such as the El Hassan Youth Award (formerly 'The Crown Prince Award') have been adopted nationally.

In 1991 in the wake of the Gulf War, Princess Sarvath personally spearheaded an international appeal which raised over one million dollars worth of medicines and medical supplies for Jordan and Iraq. Her Royal Highness continues through her personal contacts in Europe and elsewhere, to be a channel through which medical and nutritional donations are distributed throughout Jordan. The Princess, in her capacity both as the President of the YMWA and as the Honorary Vice President of the Jordan Red Crescent, also initiated many successful local appeals. The most recent of these was in 1999, when the YMWA raised 17 tons of assistance for the Kosovo refugees. Her Royal Highness was Honorary Vice President of the Jordan Red Crescent Society from1994 until 2004, having been appointed in 1991 by Her Majesty the Late Queen Zein El Sharaf to take over Her Majesty's role as head of the Ladies Branch. The Princess is President of the Centre for Phonetics Research at the University of Jordan, which deals with speech and hearing disorders; Patron of The Malath Foundation for Humanistic Care, which provides palliative care for the terminally ill; and is also Patron of the Jordanian Charity Association for Phenylketonuria and the Jordanian Osteoporosis Prevention Society.
http://www.elhassan.org/reg/sarvath/bio.html

lil Monkey · #13 09-08-2005, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelley

I'll try answer what I can :

Firstly,I have never heard that Prince Rashid has a speaking problem? Where does that come from. As far as I know, all Prince Hassan's children speak good,competent colloquial Arabic. Princess Sarvath speaks perfectly adequate Arabic, or so I have been told, but obviously is not a native speaker of the language. She is good enough to have made speeches occasionally in Arabic. I am pretty sure Prince Rashid is not engaged so there may yet be chance for some of the fans on this forum ! I think he often looks grumpy but maybe he just doesn't like being photographed. I would think that in private Prince Rashid probably calls his father 'Baba' but I suppose in Arabic it woudl look odd for a grown man to refer to his father as Daddy ? Arabs, please correct me if I am wrong. What did Princess Sumaya refer to her father as ?

There was a huge discussion about Princess Sarvath's style of dress some months ago on this forum. The conclusion was that she mostly wore saris, which in the past few years seem to have been wore more in India and Bangladesh than in Pakistan, but then it was noted that Princess Sarvath is ethnically of Indian origin. You should look for the threads. They were very interesting. I hope this answers some of your queries :)

Princess Sarvath's arabic isn't very good,but it's ok,but never heard she gave out speeches in Arabic. Sumaya called her father Baba,but in the royal family they all adress eath other either "sidi"and "sitti" or prince and princess,Haya calls Ali in interviews Sidi Ali,Rashed called prince Hassan Sidi and Even prince Hassan Called rashed Sidi Rashed,so its just a way of showing respect...
Prince Hassan calls princess Wejdan Sitti ,but Iam sure in their private lives non of them call eath oher that,I think they use names.

shelley · #14 09-09-2005, 03:53 AM

[quote=lil Monkey]Princess Sarvath's arabic isn't very good,but it's ok,but never heard she gave out speeches in Arabic.QUOTE]

I think Princess Sarvath's Arabic is adequate, but certainly not great. ( It is however meant to be better than either Princess Muna or Queen Noors's). I don't think she made a habit of giving speeches in Arabic but I did hear her myself on television some twenty years ago when she opened a anti smoking campaign. She was of course reading from a paper. I noticed that the foreign women who were married into less sophisticated familes tended to speak much better Arabic because of course they would need to communicate with their in-laws and would not have any other common language.

shelley · #15 09-09-2005, 04:17 AM

[quote=Little_star
If we're going to be technical about it then everyone from Pakistan is "ethnically" Indian, after all it was all 1 country less than 60years ago.

.[/QUOTE]

Yes and no. After our last discussion on the topic, I did more research, and found out that the style of dress ( along with language and many other things ) varied quite considerably from where someone came from the in former Indian sun-continent. The women from parts that now are Pakistan never originally wore saris. Shalwar kameez was their ethnic dress. The sari was South Indian, Central Indian and Bengalee. At a certain point in time, in about the 1930's, as women took a more public role, and mixed more with people from outside their social and regional groups, the sari became the sophisticated formal dress, and was adopted as such. This remained so in Pakistan for many years, with even women who would traditionally have worn shalwar kameez wearing saris for formal occasions. Early pictures I was shown of President Ayub Khan's daughter ( from the north of Pakistan ) show her in saris and I have seen pictures of Benazir Bhutto ( from the Sindh part of Pakistan) in the Union Building in Oxford University, also in a sari. This all changed when successive governments in Pakistan decided to go down a more 'nationalistic' route after Pakistan was made an Islamic republic, and it suddenly became very un Pakistyani to wear saris. Many older women conintued to do so, especially as Little Star says, in Karachi, which historically has the biggest grouping of people who moved from India to Pakistan. I was told that Urdu, like the sari, was also the native language of the people ethnically from Inia, and but that has remained as the national language of Pakistan, taking precedence over the regional languages. A very complicated situation. Maybe that explains why the country looks so unfathomable and full of contradictions to the outsider.

shelley · #16 09-09-2005, 04:22 AM

[quote=Little_star
If we're going to be technical about it then everyone from Pakistan is "ethnically" Indian, after all it was all 1 country less than 60years ago.

.[/QUOTE]

Yes and no. After our last discussion on the topic, I did more research, and found out that the style of dress ( along with language and many other things ) varied quite considerably from where someone came from the in former Indian sun-continent. The women from parts that now are Pakistan never originally wore saris. Shalwar kameez was their ethnic dress. The sari was South Indian, Central Indian and Bengalee. At a certain point in time, in about the 1930's, as women took a more public role, and mixed more with people from outside their social and regional groups, the sari became the sophisticated formal dress, and was adopted as such. This remained so in Pakistan for many years, with even women who would traditionally have worn shalwar kameez wearing saris for formal occasions. Early pictures I was shown of President Ayub Khan's daughter ( from the north of Pakistan ) show her in saris and I have seen pictures of Benazir Bhutto ( from the Sindh part of Pakistan) in the Union Building in Oxford University, also in a sari. On the other hand, books showinmg photograpghs of the senior ladies in the early days of Pakistan show the sister of the founder, Jinnah, in shalwar kameez, and the wife of the first Prime Minister in another style of Indian dress called the 'gharara'. Other women are seen in saris including Princess Sarvath's mother. I think it was a case of everyone wearing what they wanted, but then from what I rread Pakistan was a much more relaxed, live and let live ssociety in its early days. This all changed when successive governments in Pakistan decided to go down a more 'nationalistic' route after Pakistan was made an Islamic republic, and it suddenly became very un Pakistani to wear saris. Many older women conintued to do so, especially as Little Star says, in Karachi, which historically has the biggest grouping of people who moved from India to Pakistan. I was told that Urdu, like the sari, was also the native language of the people ethnically from India, and but that has remained as the national language of Pakistan, taking precedence over the regional languages. A very complicated situation. Maybe that explains why the country looks so unfathomable and full of contradictions to the outsider. I am grateful that this Forum kindled my interest and spurred me onto doing some reading and asking questions I might not have done previously.