Noor vs. Rania

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

Originally Posted by farah

on what base are you building your judgements? has anyone of you lived in jordan or even met a jordanian. in a country where the majority of people are palestenians I can assure you that a palestenian queen is liked much more than an american queen, jordanians used to like queen noor only because they loved their late king, most of jordanians do not like her as a person. by the way I'm jordanian.

Talk about urself and the people u know,just dun say all jordanians agree with u...I have nothing Against Rania,She's just our queen,I can't think of her more than that, but again before u speak on behalf of all Jordanians ask them first...lol
(the Issue isn't Jordanian Palestinian...I swear If we keep thinking this way,I can see black September comming again (GOD FORBID)!
Let's be more realistic!

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

Originally Posted by Balqis

I don't think shopping trips would be classified as newsworthy, Redrose. Queen Rania is much more known for the hard work she has done for Jordan and the various organizations she supports. If the Jordanian people do not see this, and I am actually quite sure that they generally do, then it's quite sad. I think it's actually some people on the internet who are so focused on the clothes, who constantly bring up her supposed obsession with looks. That's what I see.

Who first established Jordan River Foundation?
Who first establised "Nisa'a Bani Hamida"?
Who first called for humen and Children rights?

Can someone please answer me?(it's an innocent Question by the way)

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

Originally Posted by Balqis

So are you saying she isn't doing enough? Personally I think the article above just shows what the King and Queen are up against. The incentive to move forward, to create a better life for their subjects is there, but sometimes they come up against a wall. It's a complex issue. I don't think you can fault Rania for at least trying.

Also, from what I have seen of the King's recent trip to the US and Japan, he has been tirelessly talking about the Palestinian issue, making sure the coming elections run smoothly and basically promotiong a positive outlook for the future of the Palestinian issue ie. that it is the main agenda of world leaders. Abdullah, along with Rania, have been doing that for years now. I think they see a positive outcome for the Palestinians as benefiting Jordan and the whole region and they are doing what they can. King Hussein and Queen Noor have always made that their priority too :)

We Cannot deny the stuff KA has been doing ,it's so obvious how Jordan has improved in so many fields (I am not underestimating KH's role,the situation was difft back then),All Jordanians from both origins probably agree with me...It's smthing noone can deny...

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

Originally Posted by Redrose53083

I do give Rania credit for atleast trying. What concerns me is that things like rights for the Palestinians in Jordan or the horror of honor crims take some drastic action. I wish that after five years, they may have made atleast some lead way, but it seems that the minute they meet oppostition to such issues, they back down instead of continueing to fight.

AS long as they have the Jordanian passports then they aren't palestinians they are Jordanians from plaestinian origins...so they are treated equally like Jordanians cuz THEY ARE Jordanians... If u ask any Jordanian from Plaestinian origin if he wud go back to palestine and give up the Jordanian Pass. they wud tell u they wudn't...their life is here in Jordan,most of them have been here at least for 40 years...some of them never saw palestine. That doesn't mean that they must ignore their "right of return" (i dunno if it's the right term in english).


Ps: I Have NOTHING against jordanians from palestinian origins my closest friends are JO-PA.

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

Originally Posted by kinneret5764

I am disappointed in the JRF's relative inaction against honor crimes. KA rules by decree; if he really wanted to end honor crimes he could intervene and have the perps dealt with severely. Some perps get a mere year in jail for killing a woman just on suspicion alone. This is unfair. If a king can dissolve his own parliament, and fire his government, he can decree honor crimes to be a crime punishable by death.

I think it's more complicated than that...

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

LOL my big mouth is gonna be the end of me ...I KNOW!

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E

Who first established Jordan River Foundation?
Who first establised "Nisa'a Bani Hamida"?
Who first called for humen and Children rights?

Can someone please answer me?(it's an innocent Question by the way)

I am glad you brought this up actually, Trouble, because this needs to be corrected. Jordan River began, according to Queen Noor as:

"Jordan River Design, which was established by the Save the Children Fund in cooperation with the Noor Al Hussein Foundation in 1987, was transferred to the Jordan River for Development Projects (JRDP), a non-profit volunteer organization under the presidency of HM Queen Rania Abdullah."

I got the above from this link: http://www.go.com.jo/QNoorjo/main/hmpics.htm

Queen Rania wasn't around in 1987, but according to the Jordan River Foundation's official website, JRF was established in 1995, two years after she married King (then Prince) Abdullah. JRF now does more than just traditional crafts and designs, it encompasses a lot of projects dealing with the rights of children and women as well as the enviroment. Under Queen Rania it has grown considerably, see link:
http://www.jordanriver.jo/

As for the other things you raised, I see nothing wrong with one queen building on something a previous queen has started. It's about helping people and your country, not about who started what. If you check both Queen Noor's and Queen Rania's official websites you will see that BOTH are doing tremendous work. Queen Rania always credits Queen Noor when it is appropriate. For example my husband and I purchased a book on Petra and the exhibition that was unveiled in the US last year. The forward is actually written by Queen Rania and Queen Noor is credited in the book for starting talks with the museum and getting the ball rolling with the idea for the exhibition back in the early 1990's. Just one example...

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by maryshawn

QN has been very public in stating she hopes "to help KA and QR" and "never to be a burden to them in anyway." Perhaps that is why she is keeping a lower profile in Jordan now. After KH's death, I think she quite graciously moved into a behind the scenes role and focused on her children. As my late grandmother used to say (she was Irish): "Refrain from indulging in hatred. It seldom becomes anyone." When asked if she was a "friend" of Princess Diana, QN responded they'd met but their hectic schedules kept them from spending much time together. Both QR and QN have a lot on their plates. Perhaps, it's that which keeps them apart.

I think your description of Queen Noor is spot on, Mary Shawn. She is gracious and understands the situation. I remember reading a Vanity Fair interview with her in 1999 and the atmosphere in her home in Jordan and with King Abdullah was fine. It seemed they were all pulling together as a family and trying to make the enormous transition that was taking place in everyone's life in that family that much smoother. When it counts they know "blood is thicker than water". Whatever personality clashes exist (and they exist in every family) are just the fodder for the gossips who seem to blow everything out of proportion

BTW I loved your grandmother's saying!!! Very wise :)

[maryshawn]

I think so. Will they ever be great friends, shopping and socializing a lot together? Probably not because of age difference, very, very hectic schedules and commitments all over the world. I don't like to come to any conclusions through photos but they certainly seem friendly; their body language is not hostile at all. For all the speculation, and I've read a lot on both women, neither has ever said anything remotely negative about the other. QN has described QR as a "lovely but also beautiful in spirit, very pragmatic.....woman who "will certainly use her skills to advance the causes which better the lives of the Jordanian people." She said she thought that was the best role, in fact, for a Queen of Jordan. QR was a great comfort to QN during her days of mourning KH. I think we can sum up their relationship as "pleasant and cordial" and certainly we can look at QN's daughters' close relationship with KA as further proof that these women do not hate one another. QN's daughters would not retain such closeness if they felt it would hurt their mother or felt either KA or QR were treating their mother disrespectfully.

I'm glad you like my grandmother's sayings. She was a character but brimming with wisdom.....my favourite:

Life is like waves. When you are down, don't get discouraged because you are already on your way up and when you are up don't become complacent because you are already on your way down. Sometimes, it is smart just to float.

What does this have to do with QR and QN? I think they have both endured a lot and enjoyed many great things as well. But the sense I get from both is one of great similarities: Each gets up ready to face whatever comes that day; just trying to do their best.
Now there's a topic--similarities: Both are highly disciplined, smart, funny, pragmatic women who place great priority on family. I also think some of the comments about both women's glamour could be reinterpreted. QR was recently photographed wearing elegant arabic clothing amidst various places in Jordan......is it vanity or promoting people to visit Jordan? I think the latter.

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by maryshawn

I think so. Will they ever be great friends, shopping and socializing a lot together? Probably not because of age difference, very, very hectic schedules and commitments all over the world. I don't like to come to any conclusions through photos but they certainly seem friendly; their body language is not hostile at all. For all the speculation, and I've read a lot on both women, neither has ever said anything remotely negative about the other. QN has described QR as a "lovely but also beautiful in spirit, very pragmatic.....woman who "will certainly use her skills to advance the causes which better the lives of the Jordanian people." She said she thought that was the best role, in fact, for a Queen of Jordan. QR was a great comfort to QN during her days of mourning KH. I think we can sum up their relationship as "pleasant and cordial" and certainly we can look at QN's daughters' close relationship with KA as further proof that these women do not hate one another. QN's daughters would not retain such closeness if they felt it would hurt their mother or felt either KA or QR were treating their mother disrespectfully.

I'm glad you like my grandmother's sayings. She was a character but brimming with wisdom.....my favourite:

Life is like waves. When you are down, don't get discouraged because you are already on your way up and when you are up don't become complacent because you are already on your way down. Sometimes, it is smart just to float.

What does this have to do with QR and QN? I think they have both endured a lot and enjoyed many great things as well. But the sense I get from both is one of great similarities: Each gets up ready to face whatever comes that day; just trying to do their best.
Now there's a topic--similarities: Both are highly disciplined, smart, funny, pragmatic women who place great priority on family. I also think some of the comments about both women's glamour could be reinterpreted. QR was recently photographed wearing elegant arabic clothing amidst various places in Jordan......is it vanity or promoting people to visit Jordan? I think the latter.

This is an excellent summary of both, Mary Shawn and yeah your grandma is very very wise :)

I don't think anyone benefits from marginalising one queen over the other.

The picture on the first link I posted above has Queen Noor and Princess Rania visiting a project together back in the 1990's. I think back in the day Rania was probably slowly introduced to royal duties by Noor and I am sure she'd be the first to acknowledge it and say thanks :)

[farah]

I am not against queen noor, and I am not talking on behalf of the jordanians I'm just talking about the dominant feeling in jordan, and I can guarantee you that I have spoken to alot of jordanians, queen rania may be liked more but this does not mean that people hate noor. I think that both queens have done so much for jordan. but queen rania maybe had an easier job due to her origin. however, queen noor was criticized for many things including her lavish style (so its not just rania) and that she hasn't learned to speak arabic although she lived in jordan for over 20 years. but I think that a turning point in the feelings of jordanians towards queen noor was her attitude in former prime minister rabin's funeral, as she was seen shedding tears in his funeral which made jordanians and especially those of palestenian origin really upset and probably which brought back the fact that she was never a true jordanian.
also the fact that rania has not helped palestenians, first of all rania has done many things to help palestenians including all the charity dinners that she has patronized all over the world and also many charitable events she carried out in jordan, but what I want to point out is, queen rania is the queen of jordan, so her priority is helping people of JORDAN, which she was greatly succesful at, so helping palestenians is not actually her job, but still she was generous and considerate enough to help them.

[khadijalove]

can anywone gif me good links where i can find pictures from Queen rania and other arab first ladies?? thank youuu

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

Originally Posted by farah

also the fact that rania has not helped palestenians, first of all rania has done many things to help palestenians including all the charity dinners that she has patronized all over the world and also many charitable events she carried out in jordan, but what I want to point out is, queen rania is the queen of jordan, so her priority is helping people of JORDAN, which she was greatly succesful at, so helping palestenians is not actually her job, but still she was generous and considerate enough to help them.

Again,the palestinians who are here in Jordan have Jordanian Passports so they are JORDANIANS! So she is doing charity work to help Jordanians and among them those from palestinian origins,at least I hope that's what she does,I dun think they have the "Jordanian-Palestinian" issue...If u know what I mean.
U live in Jordan...Have the Jordanian Passport...then U are Jordanian no matter what ur origin is...work for Jordan,be loyal to it and Dun forget ur origin country(fair enough)... (at least that's what I understood from the term "Jordan First"...not as people said it was build upon racisim)

Anyway everyone is entitled to their own opinions...

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

Originally Posted by Balqis

I am glad you brought this up actually, Trouble, because this needs to be corrected. Jordan River began, according to Queen Noor as:

"Jordan River Design, which was established by the Save the Children Fund in cooperation with the Noor Al Hussein Foundation in 1987, was transferred to the Jordan River for Development Projects (JRDP), a non-profit volunteer organization under the presidency of HM Queen Rania Abdullah."

I got the above from this link: http://www.go.com.jo/QNoorjo/main/hmpics.htm

Queen Rania wasn't around in 1987, but according to the Jordan River Foundation's official website, JRF was established in 1995, two years after she married King (then Prince) Abdullah. JRF now does more than just traditional crafts and designs, it encompasses a lot of projects dealing with the rights of children and women as well as the enviroment. Under Queen Rania it has grown considerably, see link:
http://www.jordanriver.jo/

As for the other things you raised, I see nothing wrong with one queen building on something a previous queen has started. It's about helping people and your country, not about who started what. If you check both Queen Noor's and Queen Rania's official websites you will see that BOTH are doing tremendous work. Queen Rania always credits Queen Noor when it is appropriate. For example my husband and I purchased a book on Petra and the exhibition that was unveiled in the US last year. The forward is actually written by Queen Rania and Queen Noor is credited in the book for starting talks with the museum and getting the ball rolling with the idea for the exhibition back in the early 1990's. Just one example...

MY Question was innocent,I seriously wanted to know who first established those charitable orgscuz I have heard alot. AS for the Jordan river foundation,I did work with them for about 10 days,I was a member of the Jordanian deligation to "Frankfurt book fair" last Oct. and I was responsible about the Handicrafts section which included Jordan river foundation,Bani Hamida women and, "rural women" Organizations,and I tell u everyone seemed to have heard about them and everyone took brochures to order stuff from Jordan and they also were intrested in knowing more about KA and QR. Anyway to sum it all up,we can't deny that Rania had done some good wrok so far,I just can't understand y u guys keep hinting that I have something against her when God knows I don't...lol

[shelley]

Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E

Who first established Jordan River Foundation?
Who first establised "Nisa'a Bani Hamida"?
Who first called for humen and Children rights?

Can someone please answer me?(it's an innocent Question by the way)

Prince Hassan first established the Family Protection Unit way back in the late 1980's I think, and was responsible for the setting up of the first shelters for abused women. This project was taken from his supervision and given over to Queen Rania in 1999.

It was Prince Hassan' s call for a new Humanitarian Order at the UN in 1981 which led to the then Sectetary General asking him to set up the Independent Commission on Humanitarian Issues, an independent commission to look into human rights's abuse and poverty world wide, and whose final report was published as a book called 'Winning the Human Race'. It has led to resolutions being adopted in the UN and the formation of the Independent Bureau on Humanitarian Issues. As Crown Prince, Prince Hassan took a personal interest in how Jordan's prisons were run and did his best to improve conditions, and was in close and regular contact with ICRC to ensure no human rights violations took place. He used to regularly speak out against what he referred to as 'crimes of dishonour'. Now it is a different time with different ways.
There is no doubt that Queen Rania has done much to bring the issues of women and children' into the limelight, but it is important to remember what has been done before, the good of which continues, even if not in the public eye.

[maryshawn]

Thank you for reminding me of photo! I've seen others--I even hate the words "try to post" as it's been excruciating so I won't try to post--where QN and the now QR are together side by side and "teaching" is precisely the term I'd use! It seemed in photos and captions, QN was imparting what she'd learned for QR's benefit---you know, the reaching out to and touching/being touched by people, QN always had someone taking notes when meeting with the people; QR does the same, etc. They approach many things in a similar way--very business-like but open to the people. And, I think QR learned a great deal from QN about presenting a certain "image" to promote the country, treating people with courtesy (QR said in an interview: "You realize in this position you must be extra vigilant of how you treat others as they take their cue from you.....so if you rush in and don't bother to say "hello" to staff and others, it could be perceived as you are having a bad day and the tone is set. That's why I am always careful to say "good morning" and present a cheerful attitude." Contrast this with QN's quotes about how SHE learned from her husband how to "only present the most positive, loving, caring attitude" and "it's important, no matter how you feel inside, to smile and be upbeat as people are looking at you and you don't want to project upset; its a duty to be the most positive you can be......and a more peaceful way to live your life." I think there was some help given to QR and by QN--and they both deserve some credit--QN for giving help; QR for accepting and incorporating it into her role as Queen.


I AM going to start a post tomorrow about similarities......I think there are a lot. Besides, what good comes from saying hurtful things about either? We--the majority--are here, I think, because we admire the JRF overall. While asking questions for clarification or asking if a rumor is just that is good as it leads to valid information, I think it would be nice to take some time and focus on what they bring to the table as individuals and a group.

Originally Posted by Balqis

This is an excellent summary of both, Mary Shawn and yeah your grandma is very very wise :)

I don't think anyone benefits from marginalising one queen over the other.

The picture on the first link I posted above has Queen Noor and Princess Rania visiting a project together back in the 1990's. I think back in the day Rania was probably slowly introduced to royal duties by Noor and I am sure she'd be the first to acknowledge it and say thanks :)

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by farah

also the fact that rania has not helped palestenians, first of all rania has done many things to help palestenians including all the charity dinners that she has patronized all over the world and also many charitable events she carried out in jordan, but what I want to point out is, queen rania is the queen of jordan, so her priority is helping people of JORDAN, which she was greatly succesful at, so helping palestenians is not actually her job, but still she was generous and considerate enough to help them.

Good reminder about the charity dinners, Farah. Queen Rania has attended dinners in London almost annually in aid of MAP, Medical Aid for Palestinians. There was a famous launch of an appeal for this organization that she made with Cherie Blair in London in 2002. It received a lot of coverage in the news for Cherie Blair's controversial comments. Also even though she is a Queen of Jordan, Rania has also helped raise money for Iraqi children, which is very commendable. First in 2001 and then in 2003 during the World Economic Forum held in Jordan.

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E

MY Question was innocent,I seriously wanted to know who first established those charitable orgscuz I have heard alot.

And it was taken as such, Trouble. I hope my answer helped to clarify things for you :)

Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E

AS for the Jordan river foundation,I did work with them for about 10 days,I was a member of the Jordanian deligation to "Frankfurt book fair" last Oct. and I was responsible about the Handicrafts section which included Jordan river foundation,Bani Hamida women and, "rural women" Organizations,and I tell u everyone seemed to have heard about them and everyone took brochures to order stuff from Jordan and they also were intrested in knowing more about KA and QR. Anyway to sum it all up,we can't deny that Rania had done some good wrok so far,I just can't understand y u guys keep hinting that I have something against her when God knows I don't...lol

That's very interesting. I appreciate you sharing the above with us :)

BTW No one is "hinting" at anything, please do not assume this. We are all talking about the JRF, not analyzing each other's personal feelings about them. At least I don't