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  #41  
Old 09-19-2004, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryshawn
Well, he didn't like his first wife (arranged marriage) so he probably did.

."
Except, from what I have heard it was not arranged. K. Hussein met this very beautiful older distant cousin and fell for her, hook, line and sinker. She was the one who was reluctant to marry a man so much younger than her but eventually came round to it. But I think she proved to be too sophisticated and well educated and mature at 26 for a rather callow young man of eighteen. I guess that should have been fairly predicatable.
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Old 09-25-2004, 02:38 PM
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Noor and Hussein Compatability

With respect to others who have replied, I agree with you.....of course, he did have 20 years w/her...but they do seem at ease. And his regard for her was certainly made apparent in last letter re: succession. I will say the few photos of KH and Alia seem to show same comfort level (go to MGA Production and look up Queen Alia for great pics) but QN physically and perhaps ((not knowing her personally) emotionally seemed a lot like Alia......and I'm sure he was most thankful to find her after his great loss.

Mary Shawn


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe
for whatever my opinion is worth....KH looks most 'at ease' around QN. he seems to be quite comfortable in her prescense(can't spell it). it might have to do with his age or his comfort with his status and position in the world but definately he doesn't not look like a man who just lost 'the love of his life' a year earlier.
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  #43  
Old 10-14-2004, 03:12 AM
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Interesting; I'd read it was arranged but you are right in that she had her concerns as she WAS very sophisticated, intelligent, and mature. I still think one of KH's lowest acts was divorcing her while she was out of the country on a visit and then forbidding her to see her daughter till Princess Muna came on the scene and forced him to re-think it. Just seems cruel.
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  #44  
Old 11-29-2004, 02:55 PM
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Just getting back to fashions for a quick sec, in her autobiography, Noor disparages her own wardrobe and mentions she is thankful for advice given to her to send assistant to pick up fashions from designers used by Queens Alia and Zein--Valentino being one. Interestingly enough, she notes KH loved extravagent clothing on her--some of which she was not very comfortable in as she thought it flashy. For one particular State event, she said she felt ridiculous as KH selected a very elaborate outfit while her counterpart wore a simple, elegant dress. She learned to combine simpler pieces as time went on. I know I've seen early photos where she does look like someone else pieced her together in designer but dowdy clothing. Then it was the "Dynasty" period and she was dressed to the 9's at all times. But by the early 90s, she had it down to jean skirts and Ralph Lauren for casual, simple suits and dresses for business, and caftans for elegant affairs. I think she found a formula which worked for her. I did read an acccount by the house manager who worked for them in the 80s in the "Washingtonian." He said her wardrobe was so vast at that time, she had hired a woman whose only duty was to photograph and put together folders on Noor's wardrobe. That way, in preparation for a trip, Noor simply had to take the folders and flip through them and select what she wanted to bring. Diana did the same thing--only added notations on when/where outfit had been worn before. Now, THAT seems excessive when you get to the point of having folders to document your vast wardrobe....

I also rethought my post about how KH could marry so soon after Alia's death. Having just gone through a very loving relationship which ended suddenly, I am now convinced many men need companionship. He loved Alia then saw a woman who resembled her very much. I don't understand it but some men are able to pull themselves together and move on even after losing great loves.....I don't see as many women having that capability. I read a piece in BIOGRAPHY on great love affairs in Hollywood. To a one, the men--Clark Gable, Laurence Olivier, Richard Burton--remarried quickly after losing their great loves to death or illness or divorce. So, KH is not so very different after all and when I saw the PEOPLE issue at the time of the marriage, the side by sides of Lisa Halaby and Queen Alia were striking. They looked very alike.
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  #45  
Old 11-29-2004, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryshawn
Just getting back to fashions for a quick sec, in her autobiography, Noor disparages her own wardrobe and mentions she is thankful for advice given to her to send assistant to pick up fashions from designers used by Queens Alia and Zein--Valentino being one. Interestingly enough, she notes KH loved extravagent clothing on her--some of which she was not very comfortable in as she thought it flashy. For one particular State event, she said she felt ridiculous as KH selected a very elaborate outfit while her counterpart wore a simple, elegant dress. She learned to combine simpler pieces as time went on. I know I've seen early photos where she does look like someone else pieced her together in designer but dowdy clothing. Then it was the "Dynasty" period and she was dressed to the 9's at all times. But by the early 90s, she had it down to jean skirts and Ralph Lauren for casual, simple suits and dresses for business, and caftans for elegant affairs. I think she found a formula which worked for her. I did read an acccount by the house manager who worked for them in the 80s in the "Washingtonian." He said her wardrobe was so vast at that time, she had hired a woman whose only duty was to photograph and put together folders on Noor's wardrobe. That way, in preparation for a trip, Noor simply had to take the folders and flip through them and select what she wanted to bring. Diana did the same thing--only added notations on when/where outfit had been worn before. Now, THAT seems excessive when you get to the point of having folders to document your vast wardrobe....

I also rethought my post about how KH could marry so soon after Alia's death. Having just gone through a very loving relationship which ended suddenly, I am now convinced many men need companionship. He loved Alia then saw a woman who resembled her very much. I don't understand it but some men are able to pull themselves together and move on even after losing great loves.....I don't see as many women having that capability. I read a piece in BIOGRAPHY on great love affairs in Hollywood. To a one, the men--Clark Gable, Laurence Olivier, Richard Burton--remarried quickly after losing their great loves to death or illness or divorce. So, KH is not so very different after all and when I saw the PEOPLE issue at the time of the marriage, the side by sides of Lisa Halaby and Queen Alia were striking. They looked very alike.

You think QN and QA look alike? I don't see it. Don't get me wrong...both women were/are attractive women, but that is where the resemblance begins and ends. I'm curious though...what is it about the two that makes you think they look alike?
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  #46  
Old 12-16-2004, 11:42 PM
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Queens Noor and Alia

Well, some b/w photos seem to show enough of a resemblance where I could see KH perhaps thinking QN resembled QA........hence, his interest. How's that?



Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
You think QN and QA look alike? I don't see it. Don't get me wrong...both women were/are attractive women, but that is where the resemblance begins and ends. I'm curious though...what is it about the two that makes you think they look alike?
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  #47  
Old 12-29-2004, 02:28 AM
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I don't mean this to be disrespectful of the dead or to anyone here, but I can't say I was surprised when I heard about this article. Given the man's past, you could tell what the future pattern was going to be. He was a serial marrier and adulterer. He was married, what, four times? Each marriage not so long after the one before, even after becoming a widower after Alia died, who was supposed to be the love of his life yet he married Noor not so long after that...
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  #48  
Old 12-29-2004, 11:37 AM
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Question

i was thinking about something so i thought i'd ask everyone else's opinion to what they think...

If a man is a womaniser before he gets married what will make him change that, even if he loves the women he marries wont he get bored with the same women, im not saying straight away but maybe after a couple of years especially if he has a wondering eye?
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  #49  
Old 12-29-2004, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlightrhapsody
I don't mean this to be disrespectful of the dead or to anyone here, but I can't say I was surprised when I heard about this article. Given the man's past, you could tell what the future pattern was going to be. He was a serial marrier and adulterer. He was married, what, four times? Each marriage not so long after the one before, even after becoming a widower after Alia died, who was supposed to be the love of his life yet he married Noor not so long after that...
I think some of the circles King Hussein traveled in and the kind of life others in his circle lived needs to be acknowledged to put things into perspective before we cast judgement on King Hussein's personal life.

In the circles of power King Hussein travelled in, and at the time of these relationships and affairs (1940-1960s), married men having extramarital relationships was par for the course -- even expected. In many cases their wives knew about these relationships and chose to stay in the marriage rather than leave their husbands. Having such extracuricular activities was a sign of power and of one's conquests.

Secondly, some of the men with whom King Hussein would've been associated with, whether through his role as King or as friends, came from cultures where polygamous relationships were accepted and part of their culture. Having multiple wives or mistresses was not something to bat an eye at, even something to be proud and boastful of. So for King Hussein to have one mistress on the side was not really a major thing in such circles.

And all cultures aside, sometimes people simply make bad decisions in love and relationships. Or sometimes people get married because it's right at the time and aren't willing to tough things out and fix relationships and instead opt to divorce.

The times were most certainly different, and for me certainly coming from a western culture, the social and cultural expectations are vastly different. I can't say that I understand some of decisions and events and occurences of King Hussein's life, but I can't judge them either. And coming from my own cultural values I can't say that I would've been as tolerant as some of the people in King Hussein's life were, but who am I to judge not only King Hussein's life and the decisions he made, or the decisions to accept such a life as the women in his life did?
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  #50  
Old 12-29-2004, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cut1me
i was thinking about something so i thought i'd ask everyone else's opinion to what they think...

If a man is a womaniser before he gets married what will make him change that, even if he loves the women he marries wont he get bored with the same women, im not saying straight away but maybe after a couple of years especially if he has a wondering eye?
Some women are smart enough to make their husbands forget about any other women and are smart to make them see whatever they do as perfect,actually treat them as godesses...
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  #51  
Old 12-29-2004, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E
Some women are smart enough to make their husbands forget about any other women and are smart to make them see whatever they do as perfect,actually treat them as godesses...
do you think so trouble? im not sure, i guess im just cynical, i think once a cheater always a cheater. no matter how smart the women is,if a man wants to cheat he will
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  #52  
Old 12-29-2004, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cut1me
do you think so trouble? im not sure, i guess im just cynical, i think once a cheater always a cheater. no matter how smart the women is,if a man wants to cheat he will
Yes I think so. Men are stupid,sorry to say this,but I have seen&heard about a few men who have fallen heads over heals with liars and very bad girls but they see them as godesses and they refuse to believe when smthing bad is said about them,even if they saw it with teir own eyes. How do u explain that?lol
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  #53  
Old 12-29-2004, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-R-O-U-B-L-E
Yes I think so. Men are stupid,sorry to say this,but I have seen&heard about a few men who have fallen heads over heals with liars and very bad girls but they see them as godesses and they refuse to believe when smthing bad is said about them,even if they saw it with teir own eyes. How do u explain that?lol
i think thats a minority
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  #54  
Old 12-30-2004, 12:48 AM
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The times were most certainly different, and for me certainly coming from a western culture, the social and cultural expectations are vastly different. I can't say that I understand some of decisions and events and occurences of King Hussein's life, but I can't judge them either. And coming from my own cultural values I can't say that I would've been as tolerant as some of the people in King Hussein's life were, but who am I to judge not only King Hussein's life and the decisions he made, or the decisions to accept such a life as the women in his life did?[/QUOTE]



I definitely have to agree with you here, Alexandra.
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  #55  
Old 12-30-2004, 09:50 PM
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Been There, Done That

As someone who seriously dated a man for 2 1/2 years--knowing he had cheated on his ex-wife throughout their marriage--I was floored to find out he was cheating on me! Then, I thought how stupid I was to think his behavior of all those years would change because of being with me. Men who like dalliances with other women can be found all over and "serial womanizers" do not change. KH and KA, if true, were or, in the case of KA, could remain a "ladies man." So, I guess what I am saying is that QA, QN and perhaps QR knew the character of the men they married and, perhaps like me, expected it would change--only to find it never does. It takes a terrible toll on you--which is why I am empathetic toward Noor and Alia, both of whom definitely had to live with KH's wandering eye. While her friends say QN ascribed much of his womanizing to malicious rumor, one wonders how much Noor thought about leaving the marriage once she found "rumors" to have some substance--particularly the one about the journalist. Roland Dallas' book is well-sourced:

"Alia had been ideal....but even she, by the account of an ultra-loyal aide, suffered because of the King. He had a particular interest in foreign nannies."

"Eventually, the royal eyes stopped roving and settled on a young journalist working in the royal palace, an attractive Palestinian Jordanian. By one account, the King had fallen in love and promised to marry her. He was 57 at the time; she was 25. According to two well-placed informants, the King was attracted and began to visit the young journalist's family at home. Nothing improper occured. But the visits took place at a time when relations between the king and queen were tense.....and she was outside of the country, they didn't speak to one another, and they started to think about separation and divorce."

"At Christmas 1991, the King and Queen decided to go separately to London to decide 'in or out.' They agreed they would stay together. Meanwhile the journalist's mother was indiscreet about the King's visits and the King was very angry. There was a lot of pressure on him to dissuade him from taking a fifth wife as he was not young anymore. It was in the interest of both partners to continue the marriage so they did.....but it left a residue of coolness."

While not stated explicitly that his cheating or persistent rumors of it was playing a factor, QN writes "I felt completely helpless and alone. There were moments during that two- or three-year period when I felt I could not endure the situation much longer." (this was late 1980s). About the journalist, she mentions a stepdaughter called her and was very upset and while "there was no reason to believe these rumors any more than others about my husband and myself, the distance (emotional as well as physical) between us gave me pause.......my husband became deeply depressed after (they had talked about it and he said it was rumor) because he was unable to put an end to the rumors. He seemed almost paralyzed by the situation, which both worried and angered me. I was furious at him on some level for putting the family through great distress by letting the situation go on to the extent it had caused such public damage." If you read between the lines of QN's book, it was a challenging marriage--for many reasons--and it was only after his bouts with cancer, they managed to attain the closeness that existed at the end of his life.
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Old 12-30-2004, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryshawn
As someone who seriously dated a man for 2 1/2 years--knowing he had cheated on his ex-wife throughout their marriage--I was floored to find out he was cheating on me! Then, I thought how stupid I was to think his behavior of all those years would change because of being with me. Men who like dalliances with other women can be found all over and "serial womanizers" do not change. KH and KA, if true, were or, in the case of KA, could remain a "ladies man." So, I guess what I am saying is that QA, QN and perhaps QR knew the character of the men they married and, perhaps like me, expected it would change--only to find it never does. It takes a terrible toll on you--which is why I am empathetic toward Noor and Alia, both of whom definitely had to live with KH's wandering eye. While her friends say QN ascribed much of his womanizing to malicious rumor, one wonders how much Noor thought about leaving the marriage once she found "rumors" to have some substance--particularly the one about the journalist. Roland Dallas' book is well-sourced:

"Alia had been ideal....but even she, by the account of an uTRFa-loyal aide, suffered because of the King. He had a particular interest in foreign nannies."

"Eventually, the royal eyes stopped roving and settled on a young journalist working in the royal palace, an attractive Palestinian Jordanian. By one account, the King had fallen in love and promised to marry her. He was 57 at the time; she was 25. According to two well-placed informants, the King was attracted and began to visit the young journalist's family at home. Nothing improper occured. But the visits took place at a time when relations between the king and queen were tense.....and she was outside of the country, they didn't speak to one another, and they started to think about separation and divorce."

"At Christmas 1991, the King and Queen decided to go separately to London to decide 'in or out.' They agreed they would stay together. Meanwhile the journalist's mother was indiscreet about the King's visits and the King was very angry. There was a lot of pressure on him to dissuade him from taking a fifth wife as he was not young anymore. It was in the interest of both partners to continue the marriage so they did.....but it left a residue of coolness."

While not stated explicitly that his cheating or persistent rumors of it was playing a factor, QN writes "I felt completely helpless and alone. There were moments during that two- or three-year period when I felt I could not endure the situation much longer." (this was late 1980s). About the journalist, she mentions a stepdaughter called her and was very upset and while "there was no reason to believe these rumors any more than others about my husband and myself, the distance (emotional as well as physical) between us gave me pause.......my husband became deeply depressed after (they had talked about it and he said it was rumor) because he was unable to put an end to the rumors. He seemed almost paralyzed by the situation, which both worried and angered me. I was furious at him on some level for putting the family through great distress by letting the situation go on to the extent it had caused such public damage." If you read between the lines of QN's book, it was a challenging marriage--for many reasons--and it was only after his bouts with cancer, they managed to attain the closeness that existed at the end of his life.


I think I will have to agree with the person who said that if a man is going to cheat, he's going to cheat, and there isn't any amount of fixing or changing a woman can do to stop it.
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  #57  
Old 12-30-2004, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
I think some of the circles King Hussein traveled in and the kind of life others in his circle lived needs to be acknowledged to put things into perspective before we cast judgement on King Hussein's personal life.

In the circles of power King Hussein travelled in, and at the time of these relationships and affairs (1940-1960s), married men having extramarital relationships was par for the course -- even expected. In many cases their wives knew about these relationships and chose to stay in the marriage rather than leave their husbands. Having such extracuricular activities was a sign of power and of one's conquests.

Secondly, some of the men with whom King Hussein would've been associated with, whether through his role as King or as friends, came from cultures where polygamous relationships were accepted and part of their culture. Having multiple wives or mistresses was not something to bat an eye at, even something to be proud and boastful of. So for King Hussein to have one mistress on the side was not really a major thing in such circles.

And all cultures aside, sometimes people simply make bad decisions in love and relationships. Or sometimes people get married because it's right at the time and aren't willing to tough things out and fix relationships and instead opt to divorce.

The times were most certainly different, and for me certainly coming from a western culture, the social and cultural expectations are vastly different. I can't say that I understand some of decisions and events and occurences of King Hussein's life, but I can't judge them either. And coming from my own cultural values I can't say that I would've been as tolerant as some of the people in King Hussein's life were, but who am I to judge not only King Hussein's life and the decisions he made, or the decisions to accept such a life as the women in his life did?
Hi there,

Regarding the first 2-3 paragraphs, during the time periods that you mentioned (as well as recent ones to a certain degree), I think that it must also be acknowledged that the characteristics that you spoke of, were also apparent to a certain extent within the lives of some upper class and upper middle-class male and female Westerners of European descent as well (and off course non-Westerners of other ethnicities). JFK sr., George Bush sr. and even Bill Clinton are good examples of powerful men who had affairs while still being married, who had wives who remained married to them even after finding out about their extra marital affairs, whether or not they knew of the affairs or were suspicious of them before their husbands decided to inform them of them and/or were caught in the act. Prince Charles and Princess Diana are contemporary examples of royals who both knew of each other's affairs and put up with them ... atleast for a while. Famous psychologist Karen Horney who challenged Freud on his view of women within his analyses, had extra marital affairs, as did her husband while knowing of each other's adulterous activities and not caring.

As for KH being associated with men who came from cultures where polygamous relationships were allowed, having polygamous relationships and having mistresses are two totally different concepts. Even if KH (or any other so-called Muslim man) interpreted their religion as to allowing them to have multiple wives under any given circumstance (which I personally don't agree with), that doesn't mean that they were allowed to have "adulterous affairs" with other women prior to marrying them on a scriptural basis. Perhaps having mistresses was the norm and welcomed within an "elite" culture within certain countries, but it probably wasn't welcomed by many people within the ethnic countries of these powerful men, since the mainstream culture(s) (that of the middle class and lower class population) within these geographic locations was a religious one, so pre-marital relations or adultery wasn’t/ isn’t embraced at all. And off course having mistresses and welcoming the idea of having one/many, is more universal in nature and was even a part of certain Western cultures and to a certain extent still this.

As for the last paragraph, I'd also like to point out that some Jewish and Christian men also interpret their religions as to allowing them to have multiple wives i.e. some Mormon (the sect first arose in the United States) men have up to thirty wives especially in certain parts of Canada and the US. Even though "mainstream" Western governmental policies and cultural practices are pretty much anti-polygamy, not all Western cultures see these practices as a no-no. As for having mistresses, again its obviously a more universal practice. Western cultures aside, polygamy was/is also active for some within Hindu and Confucian cultures as well. Long ago Amazonian women were also known for having multiple husbands as were some women within certain tribes in ancient India. As for serial divorcers and adulterers, as far as I know Elizabeth Taylor got married around eight times and Billy Bob Thorton is known for getting engaged/married and then leaving a woman by having an (adulterous) affair with another and starting his cycle all over again. So in conclusion, I'd argue that "the West" as does any other region, consists of various cultures and not just one, whether mainstream/dominant cultures or sub cultures (smaller ones) and that certain Western/non Western cultures (aside from Middle Eastern/so-called Muslim ones) actually coincide with the practices that you mentioned and don't completely disqualify them in practice.
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  #58  
Old 12-30-2004, 10:21 PM
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I agree, Sommone, but when the tables were turned, and Noor was rumored to be "having a torrid affair with Sean Connery (one of the star's of the film "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" which was partially shot in Petra)....and her husband had to order his guards to bring her back to the palace but she refused," KH was so outraged he insisted on retaining a libel lawyer. In QN's words: He, who had always told me before to ingore it when my character was being slandered in the tabloids, promptly said 'Let's get ahold of a libel lawyer. I think we should respond to this one.' I agreed, knowing........sexual innuendo about a man's wife involves his honor and is considered an altogether different order of magnitude." Hmmmm..........
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Old 05-25-2005, 08:23 PM
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SOmetimes I wonder what the heck those girls were thinkin'
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Old 05-27-2005, 11:08 PM
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Me, too. I can't imagine Dina was happy when she wasn't allowed to see her daughter for years. Then, Muna thought things were fine till she learned she was being divorced so KH could marry QA. QA by her own accounts was unhappy and troubled in her role as Queen....Rolad Dallas in his biography of KH said she suffered because of KH's fondness for British nannies. Then QN came along and she, too, had a difficult time fitting in and also dealing with the rumors about her and her husband's interest in other women..... If any of them thought it was going to be an idyllic life, they were sorely let down. I think they all had a rough time in one way or another. Being Queen or royalty in any country is not easy because of lack of privacy and gossip and personal issues which have to be worked out largely on one's own because to confide in anyone risks that conversation being repeated and made public. There are many, many "perks" but sometimes the price is just too high?????
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