Jordanian Royal Family and Money

[Lyonnaise]

Sommone is right, let's get back on topic please and thank you. I know that this is a controversial issue but if this thread is to stay open let's try and be as diplomatic as possible.

Originally Posted by sommone

I suggested a separate topic because pretty soon one of the moderators will be coming through and reading this to find that we have strayed from the topic in which giving us a warning about staying on topic, or run the risk of it being closed, but whatever...if the moderators don't say anything, then maybe I shouldn't.

[matesha]

I think we do not have the same understanding of "Bashing"...What one considers bashing, another one would consider it opinion...In all cases, talking about how a public figure uses money and how he/she gets is and will always be controversial..Besides, royal members are not angels...and if they do not spend the money wisely or they exhibit lasish behaviors that we know they can't afford, then their pro- should not get upset...and then these royal members should not be upset either if they get harsh criticism...they choose to be a public figure..so they have to take the whole package with its good and bad sides....that is the price....Otherwise, show to your people how you are getting the money and how you are spending it (AUDIT)

[Ipi Tombe]

I would like to state from the get go that I know NOTHING about the financial situation of the JRF. But the remark 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' could be trotted out right now for debate.

I don't think KA and QR sit around rubbing their hands in glee while siphoning off cash that is supposed to be used to buy a hospital some disinfectant or lightbulbs so they can go stay in lavish hotel suites and buy designer clothes. However, the supposed 'wealth' of the JRF is greatly overstated, it seems. I also think what 1 person considers wealthy, another considers modest. Let's face it, Warren Buffet or Prince Al Waled is not ringing any of us up and asking for advice-so what do we really know about high finance? Also, there have many 'stories' over the years that makes it appear that the JRF are not nearly as wealthy as they would like. One of the overiding themes of QN's book is that the family seemed to have severe housing issues which could have been easily remedied if they had a little bit of cash. And whatever money the family did have 100, 50, 20 years ago is completely irrelevant today since the cash has been divided by an ever growing roster of family members.

On the other hand, I am constantly amused by the pics out of Petra with the 'designer queen' and the dowdy palaces and offices that were desperately in need of a renovation 10yrs ago. Oh....the recent pics of QN in Jackson Hole wearing traditional garb whereas QR goes to bedu encampments in designer clothes is a little comical to say the least. Those granny lampshades in PHaya' wedding pics were absolutley hysterical. My 80yr old mother in law has the EXACT SAME ones in her bedroom.

Okay, in summary (because I have gone on way too long). Yeah, KA & QR look good in their designer duds but take a closer look at those highly glossed images.....

Originally Posted by matesha

I think we do not have the same understanding of "Bashing"...What one considers bashing, another one would consider it opinion...In all cases, talking about how a public figure uses money and how he/she gets is and will always be controversial..Besides, royal members are not angels...and if they do not spend the money wisely or they exhibit lasish behaviors that we know they can't afford, then their pro- should not get upset...and then these royal members should not be upset either if they get harsh criticism...they choose to be a public figure..so they have to take the whole package with its good and bad sides....that is the price....Otherwise, show to your people how you are getting the money and how you are spending it (AUDIT)

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by Amoula

let me tell you something,I am a Jordanian and I consider myself loyal,but I found it so hard to stop people from spreading rumors about the RF,SOME poeple have this really bad image in their heads about them and If you are a Jordanian and living in Jordan you would understand what I mean..I tried for 5 years so far,people do believe rumors and they enjoy doing that,and I think the RF members are aware of the situation,they are famous and are very well known -let me say- all over the world,they were born famous and they have been raised on coping and ignoring the bad things they hear about their family (the lies they hear about them),they are human and they have feelings,I know for sure rumors can really affect their lives negatively,but they do realise at the ame time that there's nothing to be done to stop people from spreading rumors. people live to spread rumors i guess


Ps: Balqis,I really enjoyed reading you're posts,it's nice to have you here.

Thank you for that Amoula. It was nice to hear your post too. You've raised some good points.

The JRF has had to deal with horrible rumours for a long time, way before the internet came along. The kind of gossip they have been subjected to in the past (and still are of course) is done in private. This is a public forum where anyone can read what others post and what they say. That's the difference. I've seen individuals take for fact what is written and that is one of the things I object to. Opinions and people voicing their concerns is one thing. The trouble is some people can easily take it as truth and that is not right and fair. Maybe in future we should be VERY clear how we say things.

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by matesha

Well, to have a proof and to be 100% correct, One has to live PERSONALY day and night with the royal family or any public figure. By common sense, this is impossible..

Even in daily life, not all the knowledge we acquire about any thing or any body, we get it directly by ourselves...the responsility we have then is to make sure how much correct is that knowledge...how to search for this correctness, you need to triangulate many sources of information and to look for patterns

" If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them." [end of quote]

It is good that you want to bring balance to the discussion about your favorite family NOT MATTER WHAT even if yourself you do not present proofs to counter other's arguments..and instead of bringing some evidence as you love to call it, you ask people to present their proofs...why don't you do the opposite...i guess it will be more poweful..


PS: In a previous post of yours, you yourself you do not know personaly the family...I personally do not know this "jordanian" family either, nor do I know personally any royal family in the whole board...but this does not mean that I necessarily have to say negative things about them..On the other hands, acts, behaviors, the country's history, the history of a given royal family are indicators among other things..

Now, how accepting and objective one wants to be depends on his/her attitude and his/her ability of perception...

Thanks Matesha. If neither one of us can present proof, then I guess we are at an impasse. Talking about this money issue then is really a never-ending to and fro interchange between the anti versus pro and we will never get anywhere. This is what's left then: What you are doing is creating an aura of let's not trust the King and Queen, they have something to hide. The image they represent is false. I am trying to create an aura of let's play fair, give them a go, they have done nothing wrong and the image they represent appeals to me because it rings true to me. In the end it's all subjective and you will believe what you are attracted to. You will either trust or mistrust. You will either see the negative or focus on the positive.

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by wittykitty

In the opening chapters in the book "king Hussein: A life on the Edge" it mentions that the family did have financial problems during his childhood he had to sell his bicylce to his cousin Faisal. His grandfather was getting money from the British but not much comparions to the US but that changes when the US got involved and they wound up giving money to Transjordan by the time Hussein became King he was able to get $25 million( in 1950's dollars) in aid from then President Eisenhower one of the "conditons" was to help keep the county from getting "Red" =into a communist satallite state. I can't image what other moneys they got from the Saud family but as my freinds friend who is married to a guy from Amman he said if every penny 100% was invested in the back country( like it should have been all along) it would be in much better shape that it is right now. But once you shave a million here and a million there in the meanwhile local citizens don't know you got the money to begin with it's very tempting, and very hard to stop... ( Free Mney is free money) and if you need to put up a (false)face that your a successul king and modern it's one heck of a can of worms.....
Wittykitty

Hmm...interesting that while Queen Noor alluded to finacial problems, she seemed to always look fashionable and dress in the most expensive designer outfits during the 80's. If you really look at her clothes during this time you will see this. I am not bagging Noor, I am just reluctant to accept her version of things. She seems to gloss over a lot of stuff in her book. There is a photo of her with Queen Sofia of Spain in the Jordan private jet, for example, showing the Hashemites were really quite rich during King Hussein's reign. But I guess it is what one deems rich. I think it puts a different spin on things IMO, and of course I have no proof
If the Hashemites were OK financially during the reign of KH, why would Abdullah and Rania need to steal aid money, as has been suggested here???

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by matesha

I think we do not have the same understanding of "Bashing"...What one considers bashing, another one would consider it opinion...In all cases, talking about how a public figure uses money and how he/she gets is and will always be controversial..Besides, royal members are not angels...and if they do not spend the money wisely or they exhibit lasish behaviors that we know they can't afford, then their pro- should not get upset...and then these royal members should not be upset either if they get harsh criticism...they choose to be a public figure..so they have to take the whole package with its good and bad sides....that is the price....Otherwise, show to your people how you are getting the money and how you are spending it (AUDIT)

It is interesting to note that it has been only recently in the last decade or so that the Queen of England has began to pay tax and the royal finances have been put under the microscope. I think Prince Charles only published his expenditure for the year just recently in the last few months. Now UK is what is termed a democracy and it has taken this long for royal finances to be made public? The Hashemites will probably follow as democracy seeps in, but you may have to be a little bit patient. Then LOL we can talk.

[Angie]

The bottom line to this topic is that we will agree to disagree.

[Angie]

Originally Posted by sommone

Also, the moderators for this forum have said that in the posting guidelines, there should be no bashing of royals or members, so with that said, members can continue to bash, but at your own risk.

Who honestly here read the guidelines(aside from Sommone and Balquis)?

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by Angie

Who honestly here read the guidelines(aside from Sommone and Balquis)?

LOL Angie you are a riot...

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by Angie

The bottom line to this topic is that we will agree to disagree.

Unless one side can pursuade you LOL.

[Ipi Tombe]

how sad. we went from hotly contested debates on all things royal and 'middle eastern' to this. i have squared off with my fair share of people on this board but afterwards i respect them more than most other people who backed down from the challange. (all props to 'Marlene' and 'Wymanda'.) of all the stuff we have learned from each other and you people are complaining about some other posters getting out of hand (yeah, i know you are talking about me.) but at least people put forward opinions and knowledge that is not commonly available (or commonly spoken-which is much more the case in the ME).

how many of us read with great interest 'shelley's' responses? or have laughed our heads off at something another post-er has said?

we disagree.
we agree.
we think some people are complete friggin idiots
and some are complete brain boxes.
we think some people are very well informed and worldly
and other's need to go back to whatever cave they live in.

but i have never ever thought anyone on here was this whiny and petty.

there is a sign outside the local church that says:

it is easier to fight for your principles than to live up to them.

but back to the topic of KA & QR--------

I hope they give Ali & Rym a very nice wedding and Rym is openly welcomed within the fold. but i seriously doubt it. she has international credentials of her own and she didn't get them wearing expensive shoes and using stylists. And I desperately hope Rym slips her biz card to Haya's husband. With his cash and her brains-they could kick Al Jazeera's a$$!!!

[Angie]

[quote=Ipi Tombe]how sad. we went from hotly contested debates on all things royal and 'middle eastern' to this. i have squared off with my fair share of people on this board but afterwards i respect them more than most other people who backed down from the challange. (all props to 'Marlene' and 'Wymanda'.) of all the stuff we have learned from each other and you people are complaining about some other posters getting out of hand (yeah, i know you are talking about me.) but at least people put forward opinions and knowledge that is not commonly available (or commonly spoken-which is much more the case in the ME).

how many of us read with great interest 'shelley's' responses? or have laughed our heads off at something another post-er has said?

we disagree.
we agree.
we think some people are complete friggin idiots
and some are complete brain boxes.
we think some people are very well informed and worldly
and other's need to go back to whatever cave they live in.

but i have never ever thought anyone on here was this whiny and petty.

there is a sign outside the local church that says:

it is easier to fight for your principles than to live up to them.

QUOTE]


Should we go back to discussing where the money comes from?

[Angie]

Originally Posted by Balqis

Unless one side can pursuade you LOL.

There's no need to, I already have a side!

I like you Balquis, you bring a lot of balance to the threads.

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

how sad. we went from hotly contested debates on all things royal and 'middle eastern' to this.

What exactly do you mean by "this"? What is it that you object to Ipi Tombe in this thread?

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

i have squared off with my fair share of people on this board but afterwards i respect them more than most other people who backed down from the challange. (all props to 'Marlene' and 'Wymanda'.) of all the stuff we have learned from each other and you people are complaining about some other posters getting out of hand (yeah, i know you are talking about me.) but at least people put forward opinions and knowledge that is not commonly available (or commonly spoken-which is much more the case in the ME).
how many of us read with great interest 'shelley's' responses? or have laughed our heads off at something another post-er has said?

No one here is objecting to Shelley's wonderful comments, her impressions and knowledge etc. for example. It's nasty snide comments that have no basis, and yes especially slander, that is unacceptable. Actually using Shelley as an example, she has always shown the players inside the JRF respect and never "bashed" them from what I've seen. That's how it should be.

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

we disagree.
we agree.
we think some people are complete friggin idiots
and some are complete brain boxes.
we think some people are very well informed and worldly
and other's need to go back to whatever cave they live in.
but i have never ever thought anyone on here was this whiny and petty.

Such as? Be clear.

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

there is a sign outside the local church that says:

it is easier to fight for your principles than to live up to them.

but back to the topic of KA & QR--------
I hope they give Ali & Rym a very nice wedding and Rym is openly welcomed within the fold. but i seriously doubt it. she has international credentials of her own and she didn't get them wearing expensive shoes and using stylists. And I desperately hope Rym slips her biz card to Haya's husband. With his cash and her brains-they could kick Al Jazeera's a$$!!!

Well, it would be interesting to see how Rym would really cope in Rania's shoes. I am suprised Rania hasn't had a mental breakdown thanks to the viper's nest that Jordan is, in regards to the gossip and rubbish that's spoken about her, and now the internet where people can practice their freedom of speech but don't care about the consequences on someone's psyche and well-being. But it's SO entertaining to trash someone, isn't it???

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by Angie

There's no need to, I already have a side!

I like you Balquis, you bring a lot of balance to the threads.

Thanks Angie, I appreciate it.

[Ipi Tombe]

Originally Posted by Balqis

What exactly do you mean by "this"? What is it that you object to Ipi Tombe in this thread?

--THIS is what i'm talking about. Go back to the subject and get off of whiny about other posters. If you don't like someone pm the moderators or tell them off privately but don't whine in public.

No one here is objecting to Shelley's wonderful comments, her impressions and knowledge etc. for example. It's nasty snide comments that have no basis, and yes especially slander, that is unacceptable. Actually using Shelley as an example, she has always shown the players inside the JRF respect and never "bashed" them from what I've seen. That's how it should be.

--I used Shelley as an example of the positive information we can share and learn from each other. Instead of debating something and getting interesting responses from such learned sources as Shelley and catty opinions from me-we are getting this rubbish of you carrying on a debate essentially with yourself. Many people have pm'd me and asked why I hold such strong views about certain members of Royalty discussed here. And I tell these people why I think (and post) what I do. If that does not line up with your opinions of them-well, you can always reply to a post with your opinion.

Such as? Be clear.

--My point I was making is that sometimes we agree. Sometimes we don't. But it doesn't really matter. Our opinions are about as abundant and relevant as dog pooh on a Paris sidewalk.



Well, it would be interesting to see how Rym would really cope in Rania's shoes. I am suprised Rania hasn't had a mental breakdown thanks to the viper's nest that Jordan is, in regards to the gossip and rubbish that's spoken about her, and now the internet where people can practice their freedom of speech but don't care about the consequences on someone's psyche and well-being. But it's SO entertaining to trash someone, isn't it???

I don't have much sympathy for Rania. She has never struck me as someone with great depth of character or intellectual capacity. The glare off of her extremely well polished image gives me a headache.

[sommone]

[quote=Angie]Who honestly here read the guidelines(aside from Sommone and Balquis)?[/QUOT

So I read them, and? I just thought I would point it out. Apparently people haven't seen or read them...possibly ignored them all together, but whatever. I'm through debating it here anyhow. I have said my piece. :)

[sommone]

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

how sad. we went from hotly contested debates on all things royal and 'middle eastern' to this. i have squared off with my fair share of people on this board but afterwards i respect them more than most other people who backed down from the challange. (all props to 'Marlene' and 'Wymanda'.) of all the stuff we have learned from each other and you people are complaining about some other posters getting out of hand (yeah, i know you are talking about me.) but at least people put forward opinions and knowledge that is not commonly available (or commonly spoken-which is much more the case in the ME).

how many of us read with great interest 'shelley's' responses? or have laughed our heads off at something another post-er has said?

we disagree.
we agree.
we think some people are complete friggin idiots
and some are complete brain boxes.
we think some people are very well informed and worldly
and other's need to go back to whatever cave they live in.

but i have never ever thought anyone on here was this whiny and petty.

there is a sign outside the local church that says:

it is easier to fight for your principles than to live up to them.

but back to the topic of KA & QR--------

I hope they give Ali & Rym a very nice wedding and Rym is openly welcomed within the fold. but i seriously doubt it. she has international credentials of her own and she didn't get them wearing expensive shoes and using stylists. And I desperately hope Rym slips her biz card to Haya's husband. With his cash and her brains-they could kick Al Jazeera's a$$!!!

I'm not sure who you were speaking to exactly when you stated you people, but I was one of those people who "complained"....didn't name names, either. I stood and will continue to stand by this principle...However, I'm done discussing it. There is a topic in announcements where it can be discussed there or not, or feel free to pm me, or not because I won't debate it here any longer.

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

THIS is what i'm talking about. Go back to the subject and get off of whiny about other posters. If you don't like someone pm the moderators or tell them off privately but don't whine in public.

I am amazed tht you perceive a serious discussion about how this forum has been overtaken by nonsense and slander as "whining". Maybe you're afraid that your "fun" is at an end?

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

I used Shelley as an example of the positive information we can share and learn from each other. Instead of debating something and getting interesting responses from such learned sources as Shelley and catty opinions from me-we are getting this rubbish of you carrying on a debate essentially with yourself.

We are having a discussion right now, aren't we? I've stirred up something and people have responded to me positively and negatively. I wouldn't call it a discussion with myself only.

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

My point I was making is that sometimes we agree. Sometimes we don't. But it doesn't really matter. Our opinions are about as abundant and relevant as dog pooh on a Paris sidewalk.

Nice one, comparing your opinions to pooh, how appropriate!

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

I don't have much sympathy for Rania. She has never struck me as someone with great depth of character or intellectual capacity. The glare off of her extremely well polished image gives me a headache.

Would someone with no great depth of character and intellectual capacity be able to hold her own in a room full of economists, for example? Or be able to convey and articulate herself when defending Islam in wake of 9/11? The shallow impression of Rania you seem to have only shows the shallowness you possess, Ipi Tombe.