Jordanian Royal Family and Money

[Angie]

[quote=Ipi Tombe]how sad. we went from hotly contested debates on all things royal and 'middle eastern' to this. i have squared off with my fair share of people on this board but afterwards i respect them more than most other people who backed down from the challange. (all props to 'Marlene' and 'Wymanda'.) of all the stuff we have learned from each other and you people are complaining about some other posters getting out of hand (yeah, i know you are talking about me.) but at least people put forward opinions and knowledge that is not commonly available (or commonly spoken-which is much more the case in the ME).

how many of us read with great interest 'shelley's' responses? or have laughed our heads off at something another post-er has said?

we disagree.
we agree.
we think some people are complete friggin idiots
and some are complete brain boxes.
we think some people are very well informed and worldly
and other's need to go back to whatever cave they live in.

but i have never ever thought anyone on here was this whiny and petty.

there is a sign outside the local church that says:

it is easier to fight for your principles than to live up to them.

QUOTE]


Should we go back to discussing where the money comes from?

[Angie]

Originally Posted by Balqis

Unless one side can pursuade you LOL.

There's no need to, I already have a side!

I like you Balquis, you bring a lot of balance to the threads.

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

how sad. we went from hotly contested debates on all things royal and 'middle eastern' to this.

What exactly do you mean by "this"? What is it that you object to Ipi Tombe in this thread?

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

i have squared off with my fair share of people on this board but afterwards i respect them more than most other people who backed down from the challange. (all props to 'Marlene' and 'Wymanda'.) of all the stuff we have learned from each other and you people are complaining about some other posters getting out of hand (yeah, i know you are talking about me.) but at least people put forward opinions and knowledge that is not commonly available (or commonly spoken-which is much more the case in the ME).
how many of us read with great interest 'shelley's' responses? or have laughed our heads off at something another post-er has said?

No one here is objecting to Shelley's wonderful comments, her impressions and knowledge etc. for example. It's nasty snide comments that have no basis, and yes especially slander, that is unacceptable. Actually using Shelley as an example, she has always shown the players inside the JRF respect and never "bashed" them from what I've seen. That's how it should be.

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

we disagree.
we agree.
we think some people are complete friggin idiots
and some are complete brain boxes.
we think some people are very well informed and worldly
and other's need to go back to whatever cave they live in.
but i have never ever thought anyone on here was this whiny and petty.

Such as? Be clear.

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

there is a sign outside the local church that says:

it is easier to fight for your principles than to live up to them.

but back to the topic of KA & QR--------
I hope they give Ali & Rym a very nice wedding and Rym is openly welcomed within the fold. but i seriously doubt it. she has international credentials of her own and she didn't get them wearing expensive shoes and using stylists. And I desperately hope Rym slips her biz card to Haya's husband. With his cash and her brains-they could kick Al Jazeera's a$$!!!

Well, it would be interesting to see how Rym would really cope in Rania's shoes. I am suprised Rania hasn't had a mental breakdown thanks to the viper's nest that Jordan is, in regards to the gossip and rubbish that's spoken about her, and now the internet where people can practice their freedom of speech but don't care about the consequences on someone's psyche and well-being. But it's SO entertaining to trash someone, isn't it???

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by Angie

There's no need to, I already have a side!

I like you Balquis, you bring a lot of balance to the threads.

Thanks Angie, I appreciate it.

[Ipi Tombe]

Originally Posted by Balqis

What exactly do you mean by "this"? What is it that you object to Ipi Tombe in this thread?

--THIS is what i'm talking about. Go back to the subject and get off of whiny about other posters. If you don't like someone pm the moderators or tell them off privately but don't whine in public.

No one here is objecting to Shelley's wonderful comments, her impressions and knowledge etc. for example. It's nasty snide comments that have no basis, and yes especially slander, that is unacceptable. Actually using Shelley as an example, she has always shown the players inside the JRF respect and never "bashed" them from what I've seen. That's how it should be.

--I used Shelley as an example of the positive information we can share and learn from each other. Instead of debating something and getting interesting responses from such learned sources as Shelley and catty opinions from me-we are getting this rubbish of you carrying on a debate essentially with yourself. Many people have pm'd me and asked why I hold such strong views about certain members of Royalty discussed here. And I tell these people why I think (and post) what I do. If that does not line up with your opinions of them-well, you can always reply to a post with your opinion.

Such as? Be clear.

--My point I was making is that sometimes we agree. Sometimes we don't. But it doesn't really matter. Our opinions are about as abundant and relevant as dog pooh on a Paris sidewalk.



Well, it would be interesting to see how Rym would really cope in Rania's shoes. I am suprised Rania hasn't had a mental breakdown thanks to the viper's nest that Jordan is, in regards to the gossip and rubbish that's spoken about her, and now the internet where people can practice their freedom of speech but don't care about the consequences on someone's psyche and well-being. But it's SO entertaining to trash someone, isn't it???

I don't have much sympathy for Rania. She has never struck me as someone with great depth of character or intellectual capacity. The glare off of her extremely well polished image gives me a headache.

[sommone]

[quote=Angie]Who honestly here read the guidelines(aside from Sommone and Balquis)?[/QUOT

So I read them, and? I just thought I would point it out. Apparently people haven't seen or read them...possibly ignored them all together, but whatever. I'm through debating it here anyhow. I have said my piece. :)

[sommone]

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

how sad. we went from hotly contested debates on all things royal and 'middle eastern' to this. i have squared off with my fair share of people on this board but afterwards i respect them more than most other people who backed down from the challange. (all props to 'Marlene' and 'Wymanda'.) of all the stuff we have learned from each other and you people are complaining about some other posters getting out of hand (yeah, i know you are talking about me.) but at least people put forward opinions and knowledge that is not commonly available (or commonly spoken-which is much more the case in the ME).

how many of us read with great interest 'shelley's' responses? or have laughed our heads off at something another post-er has said?

we disagree.
we agree.
we think some people are complete friggin idiots
and some are complete brain boxes.
we think some people are very well informed and worldly
and other's need to go back to whatever cave they live in.

but i have never ever thought anyone on here was this whiny and petty.

there is a sign outside the local church that says:

it is easier to fight for your principles than to live up to them.

but back to the topic of KA & QR--------

I hope they give Ali & Rym a very nice wedding and Rym is openly welcomed within the fold. but i seriously doubt it. she has international credentials of her own and she didn't get them wearing expensive shoes and using stylists. And I desperately hope Rym slips her biz card to Haya's husband. With his cash and her brains-they could kick Al Jazeera's a$$!!!

I'm not sure who you were speaking to exactly when you stated you people, but I was one of those people who "complained"....didn't name names, either. I stood and will continue to stand by this principle...However, I'm done discussing it. There is a topic in announcements where it can be discussed there or not, or feel free to pm me, or not because I won't debate it here any longer.

[Balqis]

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

THIS is what i'm talking about. Go back to the subject and get off of whiny about other posters. If you don't like someone pm the moderators or tell them off privately but don't whine in public.

I am amazed tht you perceive a serious discussion about how this forum has been overtaken by nonsense and slander as "whining". Maybe you're afraid that your "fun" is at an end?

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

I used Shelley as an example of the positive information we can share and learn from each other. Instead of debating something and getting interesting responses from such learned sources as Shelley and catty opinions from me-we are getting this rubbish of you carrying on a debate essentially with yourself.

We are having a discussion right now, aren't we? I've stirred up something and people have responded to me positively and negatively. I wouldn't call it a discussion with myself only.

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

My point I was making is that sometimes we agree. Sometimes we don't. But it doesn't really matter. Our opinions are about as abundant and relevant as dog pooh on a Paris sidewalk.

Nice one, comparing your opinions to pooh, how appropriate!

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

I don't have much sympathy for Rania. She has never struck me as someone with great depth of character or intellectual capacity. The glare off of her extremely well polished image gives me a headache.

Would someone with no great depth of character and intellectual capacity be able to hold her own in a room full of economists, for example? Or be able to convey and articulate herself when defending Islam in wake of 9/11? The shallow impression of Rania you seem to have only shows the shallowness you possess, Ipi Tombe.

[shelley]

Wow....I am most flattered by your positive comments about my posts. Thank you

[UFO Goddess]

Originally Posted by QueenB

It's pitiful when news agencies - not just in Jordan but all over the place - focus on the fact that they are 'modern' instead of what contributions they are really making to their country and how the foreign aid money is REALLY being spent.. whenever I see the new QR outfit or the new planes or the love KA has for cars - I think 'there goes our tax dollars wasted on another leader.'

Since you don't know where the aid money goes exactly, and whether or not the King and Queen's cars or outfits are bought with private cash, your anger is as futile and pitiful as your objections. How about making some kind of statements based on facts, instead of your worthless assumptions?

Originally Posted by QueenB

Investigative journalists in Jordan would be too vocal about not just spending but other things that have happened or are currently happening.. investigative jounalists here are just glad that KA and QR are young and like to pose for pictures.

What a bunch of shallow nonsense you are spitting forth! Do you have anything to say that is actually factual, or are you just going to bitch about things that are unproven and unfounded? Does the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" mean anything to you? Just because you assume that the aid money is being abused doesn't make it true. How would you like it if someone accused you of such a thing for no good reason? Are you inside the Jordan Royal palace? Have you seen diverted funds going to the purchase of cars? Do you even know what the hell you are blathering about?

[UFO Goddess]

Originally Posted by Balqis

I would watch what I say girls. Slander is a serious thing. To allude here and in other threads that aid from abroad is going into the private accounts of the Jordan Royal Family is a serious accusation. To accuse somone in the Arab world of stealing money is very offensive. If you have proof then that's another matter. Speculating in a totally unfounded way with no real evidence to back up what you say is very tricky.

Now there is someone with sense, finally! Reading these cranky hen-fests was starting to make me think that this board has nothing but nonsense in the place of true argument. You are absolutely right, Balqis- unless there is some kind of hard evidence, a real paper trail that is definitive, this type of slander is not just irresponsible, it is dangerous. But then again, some crass dolt sitting in America who resents the hell out of Queen Rania for purely selfihs, jealous, and petty reasons doesn't have to think or act responsibly. All these hens have to do is repeat an unfounded allegation enough times and they can convince many people that it "is" true. This technique of the Big Lie worked well for Hitler, why not for them?

Originally Posted by Balqis

The JRF have their own private wealth, accumulated way before King Abdullah II ascended to the throne. Most families in power in the Middle East have private wealth that has nothing to do with their country's wealth. Some flaunt their wealth in an extravagant way, some keep it very private. I think being descended from the Prophet Mohammed has given the Hashemites a profound sense of duty to the well-being of their subjects. It is part of their code of honour. To say that money meant for the poor is used to line their pockets, well what can I say? It's incredibly scandal-mongering, what a way to sling mud...

And it also shows the lack of truth in the minds of those who make such unfounded, unwarranted, and completely lame accusations. Just because Queen Rania wears the most beautiful clothes in the world doesn't mean that she is stealing aid money to do so. But if her beauty and grace make fill your mind with envy and anger, then of course, like those here on this board, you will attack her in any irresponsible way possible. And if you can get a hen-fest of likeminded dolts totgethe, well the entire thing can appear true even when it is nothing but a bunch of hot air.

[UFO Goddess]

Originally Posted by Angie

I agree, some of what is brought up here is without any evidence.

SOME of what is brought up here? In this entire thread about the alleged abuse of aid funding, there isn't any evidence at all, at all, just a constant refrain of slanderous accusations that do nothing except make those who believe the allegations feel good about themselves.

[UFO Goddess]

Originally Posted by matesha

yourself you do not present proofs to counter other's arguments..and instead of bringing some evidence as you love to call it, you ask people to present their proofs...why don't you do the opposite...i guess it will be more poweful..

The burden of proof is on the accuser. If someone wants to make allegations about JRF abusing aid funds, then they- the accusers- are the ones who need to present evidence to make the case. The accused or those who do not agree with the accuser are not the ones who need to supply evidence. This is the basis of "innocent until proven guilty".

[Ipi Tombe]

nobody has alleged that the JRF has skimmed Aid funds. just that their lifestyle seems out of sync with the economic reality of the country they inhabit. there are a million ways to get your hands on cash if you are sovereign besides stealing a child's forumla.

i don't know how business is done in jordan but in the emirates every business needs a local sponsor or needs to be whollly owned by a local. the local usually gets about 20% of the profit for siging 2 pieces of paper. if there are arrangments like this in jordan-i would suspect that the JRF are the locals of choice for business sponosorship and they would get a tidy sum of cash from these businesses. they don't have to do anything. they can sponosr as many as they want. and they get a check every quarter. quite convienent.

once again, i don't know about business in jordan so someone there might be able to englighten me (and us all). but this is the way it is done all over the Gulf.

[papillon]

Originally Posted by Ipi Tombe

how sad. we went from hotly contested debates on all things royal and 'middle eastern' to this. i have squared off with my fair share of people on this board but afterwards i respect them more than most other people who backed down from the challange. (all props to 'Marlene' and 'Wymanda'.) of all the stuff we have learned from each other and you people are complaining about some other posters getting out of hand (yeah, i know you are talking about me.) but at least people put forward opinions and knowledge that is not commonly available (or commonly spoken-which is much more the case in the ME).

how many of us read with great interest 'shelley's' responses? or have laughed our heads off at something another post-er has said?

we disagree.
we agree.
we think some people are complete friggin idiots
and some are complete brain boxes.
we think some people are very well informed and worldly
and other's need to go back to whatever cave they live in.

but i have never ever thought anyone on here was this whiny and petty.

I'm with you, Ipi. As a non-attorney, the idea that we'd have to "prove" anything before we post is off the mark for me, though if others want to impose that standard on themselves, so be it. But to imply the rest of us are not entitled to post if we fail to do that concerns me. I prefer open discussion, different points of view (otherwise, how in the world does one learn anything?), more controversy as opposed to a unified chorus, etc. People like Shelley have taught me a lot; people like Pepep and you have had me in stitches. I'm missing the former tone on this message board and hope it returns.

[Angie]

Originally Posted by papillon

I'm with you, Ipi. As a non-attorney, the idea that we'd have to "prove" anything before we post is off the mark for me, though if others want to impose that standard on themselves, so be it. But to imply the rest of us are not entitled to post if we fail to do that concerns me. I prefer open discussion, different points of view (otherwise, how in the world does one learn anything?), more controversy as opposed to a unified chorus, etc. People like Shelley have taught me a lot; people like Pepep and you have had me in stitches. I'm missing the former tone on this message board and hope it returns.

Like some else said this is not a court a law, is only a discussion forum. Let's not take this discussions at heart(unless your a Hashemite)!

[papillon]

Originally Posted by shelley

Wow....I am most flattered by your positive comments about my posts. Thank you

You've earned them, Shelley.

[sommone]

oops wrong topic...