The Royal House of Savoy: History, Older News, Stories and Pictures

[christinacg]

^can anyone translate what he's saying to those ladies?

 

[iakynthi]

This video is priceless!I enjoyed every single minute Now,seriously,do you see a drunk man here?I mean,just a drunk man?Because I see a troubled young man-and drunk,of course-who gives me the impression that he never got over his teenage attitude/habbits

 

[Tosca]

Thanks for the information McAfan. I thought Marina Doria was Italian.

Odette, Marina is Swiss, but she can speak Italian, being born in the Italian part of Switzerland. The reason the Savoys speak French among themselves goes back to the old days when French was the official language of the Court of Savoy (Savoy is a region of S/E France).
None of the Kings of Italy was totally fluent in Italian, as Montanelli explained in his history books, King Vittorio Emanuele II couldn't possibly write in Italian. His successors preferred to speak French or the Piedmontese dialect. The only one to be able to speak Italian fluently was King Umberto II.

 

[emmalisa]

I need photo ID help! I saw this photo over at The Glittering Royals MB:
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9169/0000431429xp3.jpg
At first I figured the man next to Marie Jose (on the left) was Umberto, but then I saw he was in the middle behind Elisabeth. So who is the man next to Marie Jose? He looks an awful lot like Umberto but I know Umberto didn't have any brothers so could he have been a look-a-like cousin?

(Happened to see this question although it has been put a long time ago):

Could this person next to Queen Marie-Jose be Prince Alexander of Jugoslavia,
husband to Princess Maria-Pia, sitting on the left side of Queen Elisabeth?

http://artroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/mariapiasavoy1934-10.jpg

He's not Prince Charles, as was suggested.

 

[MAfan]

(Happened to see this question although it has been put a long time ago):

Could this person next to Queen Marie-Jose be Prince Alexander of Jugoslavia,
husband to Princess Maria-Pia, sitting on the left side of Queen Elisabeth?

http://artroots.com/brigitte/gifs7/mariapiasavoy1934-10.jpg

He's not Prince Charles, as was suggested.

Yes, maybe he is Prince Alexander...
And who is the woman seated at the left of Queen Elisabeth?

 

[emmalisa]

Yes, maybe he is Prince Alexander...
And who is the woman seated at the left of Queen Elisabeth?

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9...0431429xp3.jpg

I'm not an expert on this.. But that photo unseen to me just fascinated a lot and I tried to identify the persons!
Cannot identify the time it was taken nor the occasion, but it seems that whole family of King Umberto and Queen Marie Jose is present.
My humble guess is that Queen Elisabeth is seated between Princess Lilian de Rethy (her right side) and Princess Maria-Pia (her left side).
I think the young lady next to Queen Marie Jose could be Princess Maria Beatrice and the other young lady (standing next to Princess Maria Pia) could be Princess Maria Gabrielle. First I thought she was Princess Paola...

Perhaps someone could verify or correct me?

 

[Marengo]

It could be Queen Elisabeth's 80th birthday celebration in 1956.

The ones you described are correct,he princess next to Maria-Pia is ndeed princess Maria-Gabriella. Princess Maria-Beatrix is standing next to Queen Marie-Jose, on the left. The lady standing on the right in the 2nd row is hereditairy grand duchess Josephine-Charlotte, with her arm around her brother prince Albert (now king Albert II). Right from her are her husband Jean and her half-brother prince Alexander.

The man who is armed with queen Marie-Jose is prince Alexander of Yugoslavia, husband of princess Maria-Pia. Right from him are king Baudouin I, king Leopold II, the prince of Napels and king Umberto II.

Only 1 person is missing from this picture: prince Charles of Belgium, as he could not stand his brother Leopold probably.

 

[MAfan]

I also have identified the woman near Josephine Charlotte as Paola at first sight, but now I'm quite sure to identify her as Princess Maria Gabriella.

About Prince Charles, was he in bad relations with his brother?

 

[emmalisa]

It could be Queen Elisabeth's 80th birthday celebration in 1956.

You are right! Her birthday was on July. Princess Liliane de Rethy looks like she could be pregnant, and Princess Maria-Esmeralda was born in September 1956.

 

[maria-olivia]

On this picture Princess Lilian was sitting because she was pregnant.
They are books and books about the relationship between HM Leopold III and HRH Prince Charles , Regent of Belgium 1945-1950 and Count of Flanders .

 

[Alberto2244]

Keeping in mind this article is ancient

El Papa decide, en una disputa dinástica, a favor de los Borbones italianos · ELPAÍS.com

this article is from 1980

 

[Royal Fan]

What does it say??

 

[jonnydep]

carlo felice & carlo alberto, kings of sardinia

whilst browsing the forums, i think i came across a post which states that king carlo felice of sardinia 1765-1831 was succeeded by his nephew carlo alberto, prince of carignano 1798-1849. this would suggest that the two concerned was uncle and nephew by blood (son of a brother), which is not the case, the two are distant cousins.

but for the life of me, i can not locate this post to check if i have read it correctly.
- correction the source of this data is not within the royal forums, found it amongst my e mails. sorry about that.

however carlo felice and carlo alberto was uncle in law and nephew in law by marriage.
carlo felice had married maria christina of two sicilies, her sister luisa had married grand duke ferdinando of tuscany, they in turn had a daugther maria theresia who married carlo alberto.

so i suppose who submitted the post was correct in a slight way.

cheers jonny

 

[MAfan]

yes, they were far cousins, and their wives were aunt and nephew; but the relationship between the two Kings were very very bad...Carlo Felice tried in 1822 to change the succession law to make his nephew Maria Beatrice (wife of duke Francesco IV of Modena) able to became Queen, and in order to exclude the hated Carlo Alberto from the succession because of his liberal ideas.

 

[jonnydep]

yes, they were far cousins, and their wives were aunt and nephew; but the relationship between the two Kings were very very bad...Carlo Felice tried in 1822 to change the succession law to make his nephew Maria Beatrice (wife of duke Francesco IV of Modena) able to became Queen, and in order to exclude the hated Carlo Alberto from the succession because of his liberal ideas.

thats somewhat odd, as according to various sources carlo alberto was a extreme reactionary and a staunch champion of legitimacy and absolutism, which made him hated by the LIBERALS. it not until 1848 (the year of revolutions), that he very unexpectedly granted his subjects a consititution.

it is said that during the lifetime of the old king carlo felice, that his cousin carlo alberto considered himself the old kings heir to both the duchy of savoy and the kingdom of sardinia. savoy well and good, as carlo alberto was a male descandant of the dukes of savoy. but not so inregards sardinia, as he was not a male descendant of the kings of sardinia, he did not have a legal claim to the throne (not even by his descent via a daughter of the first king of sardinia) . the old king tried to change the succession in favor of his niece (the nearest female heir), as the succession was governed by salic law, barring females from the succession. it is this what irked carlo alberto, for he was a very ambitious man, he wanted the full job lot - he was not content with with being the future duke of savoy, but wanted the monarchy as well.

thus with the death of the old king, the kingdom of sardinia should have become EXTINCT, as they was no male hiers to succeed to the throne.

however carlo alberto did succeed to the throne after the old king's death. perhaps it was better for all concerned to accept him as king than to not ?, after all was he not the regent of the kingdom back in 1821 and vicerory in 1829 !!!
cheers jonny

 

[MAfan]

Well, CA's parents were very very liberal,and supporters of Napoleon; CA himself received an apanage from Napoleon; after the fall of N, he returned from Paris to Turin, where he frequented liberals...only after his accession to the throne he became more reactionery, but CF didn't know this side of CA, since when it was shown CF was already dead...

 

[amedea]

Carlo Alberto in the years around 1820 frequented the scions of the highest piedmontese aristocracy, who happened to be of liberal tendencies. This "milieu" organized the revolution of 1821: CA supported the organization of that revolt but, at last, he changed his mind and denounced his conpanions!! By doing so, he was considered a traitor by liberals and, at the same time, he made clear that he wasn't absolutely insensible to liberal ideals, annoying in this way the king, who send him in exile in Florence. After that, he acted as a reactionary (he partecipate to a counterrevolution campaign in Spain, that ended with the Trocadero battle..) to convince the king he was reliable, but may be also because of his ideas: as a King he supported the legitimists in France, called Louis Philippe an usurper, gave financial aid to the duchess of Berry..
The judgement historians give of him is that he was contradictory and changed his mind frequently; he has been called the king who "want and don't want".
however my judgement of him isn't negative at all: I find this problematic approach to the epocal changements of that time very comprehensible and fascinating. And thinking to him I can't not think to Carducci ode's "Piemonte" where he is also defined "Italo Amleto" that means "Italian/Italic Hamlet".

 

[Tosca]

Carlo Alberto a.k.a "Re Tentenna" ( the irresolute King ). Looks like his descendants have taken a lot after him...

 

[MAfan]

Carlo Alberto a.k.a "Re Tentenna" ( the irresolute King ). Looks like his descendants have taken a lot after him...

At least some of them...but I don't think all his descedants are irresolute...

 

[Alberto2244]

Exhibition "Casa Savoia: Storia di una Famiglia Italiana"

Exhibition "Casa Savoia: Storia di una Famiglia Italiana" will display many objects never seen before in public. It will start next month in Cortina d´Ampezzo and will go around all Italy over all in 2011, when Italy celebrates the 150th anniversary of their unification

http://www.luxgallery.it/articolo/casa-sav...italiana/14341/

 

[jonnydep]

king carlo alberto

well this king, seems to be a colourful man. i would say he was a opportunist forever changing sides to suit himself, his own ambitions and for his own advancement. he certainly lived by the adivce of his ancestor, the founder of the house of savoy, count umberto, who on his deathbed in c1056, is said to have uttered the following- " NEVER ALLY YOURSELF COMPLETELY TO ONE SIDE, ONE FACTION OR ONE POLICY"

this is quite true concerning this king, dont you think ?

yes i have read somewhere that the counts, dukes of savoy and the kings of sardinia and later, the italian kings (with a few exceptions along the way) were seen as "petty-minded princes with the politics of plain opportunism" !!!.

 

[MAfan]

It's well known that the Savoy Dukes and Kings every time beginned a war on a side and ended it on the other one...

 

[Alberto2244]

Mafalda di Savoia and Maria Ruhnau, the witness of Jeovah

An article on Princess Mafalda and this woman who was put by Mafalda´s side as a spy by the Nazis in Buchenwald as a witness of Jeovah she would not tell lies:

Cristiani Testimoni di Geova: Mafalda di Savoia e Maria Ruhnau:la principessa e la testimone di Geova insieme a Buchenwald.

 

[amedea]

I have heard that before prince Vittorio Emanule married Marina Ricolfi, there was the hope that he would marry Princess Isabella of Savoy-Genua.. someone else has heard that or have details? since some members is so close to this princess I expect intresting answers

 

[MAfan]

It's well known that the Savoy Dukes and Kings every time beginned a war on a side and ended it on the other one...

It was used to say "Francia o Spagna, purchè se magna", "France or Spain, provided that we can eat"...

 

[amedea]

anybody knows if and in which way count Guglielmo Guarienti di Brenzone, son-in-law of princess Jolanda, is related to another son-in-law of the same princess, Carlo Guarienti?

 

[jonnydep]

king umberto and the marriage of prince vittorio emanuele & marina doria (a non royal) !!

the old king did not agree to the marriage..... resulting (in accordence with the family laws), that his son lost all rights to the throne (though today the prince still regards himself as the head of the house, the rightful heir to the throne and thus the next king of italy)

the old kings thinking and logic in the matter was as follows ......his sons marriage could have harmed the chances of a restoration of his throne in the near or distant future.......his son might had been at some later stage make a more politically, dynastically and financially advantageous match which would help towards a restoration of the throne !!.

thus the next heir to the throne is none the other than, the duke of aosta....but, didnt his ancestor the first duke (and sometime king of spain) married a non royal.....i take it that he had the permisson of his father the king for such a marriage ?

 

[Warren]

you had mentioned that the next heir to the throne was none the other than, the duke of aosta....but to come to think of it, didnt his ancestor the first duke (and sometime king of spain) married a non royal.....i take it that he had the permisson of his father the king for such a marriage ?

From Wiki:

Prince Amedeo of Savoy was born in Turin, Italy. He was the second son of Victor Emmanuel II (King of Piedmont, Sardinia and, later, first King of Italy) and of Archduchess Maria Adelaide of Austria. He was made hereditary Duke of Aosta in the year of his birth, 1845.

In 1867 his father yielded to the entreaties of parliamentary deputy Francisco Cassins, and on 30 May of that year, Amedeo was married to Donna Maria Vittoria dal Pozzo, Princess della Cisterna (1847-1876). The king initially opposed the match on the grounds that her family was of insufficient rank, as well as his hopes for his son's marriage to a German princess.

Despite her princely title, donna Maria Vittoria was not of royal birth, belonging rather to the Piedmontese nobility. She was, however, the sole heiress of her father's vast fortune, which subsequent Dukes of Aosta inherited, thereby obtaining wealth independent of their dynastic appanage and allowances from Italy's kings. Maria Vittoria's mother, Countess Louise de Mérode, granddaughter of the Prince de Rubempré and of the Princess van Grimberghe, belonged to one of Belgium's premier noble houses, and had married the Principe della Cisterna in 1846 in a double wedding with her younger sister Antoinette, who married Charles III, the reigning Prince of Monaco.

 

[jonnydep]

Maria Vittoria's mother, Countess Louise de Mérode, granddaughter of the Prince de Rubempré and of the Princess van Grimberghe, belonged to one of Belgium's premier noble houses, and had married the Principe della Cisterna in 1846 in a double wedding with her younger sister Antoinette, who married Charles III, the reigning Prince of Monaco.

i can not helping thinking.....isnt it strange how history produces the most unlikely bedfellows.......a niece of the prince and princess of monaco, marries into the very same family, where a generation or so earlier, tried to force the then prince of monaco to hand over his principality to the kingdom of sardinia !!!

 

[MAfan]

you had mentioned that the next heir to the throne was none the other than, the duke of aosta....but to come to think of it, didnt his ancestor the first duke (and sometime king of spain) married a non royal.....i take it that he had the permisson of his father the king for such a marriage ?

Amedeo was in love with Maria Vittoria, and he wanted to marry her; his father VE II soon opposed, because she was not a royal and because he wished a royal princess as a wife for Amedeo; btw he gave his permission to the marriage, for two reasons:
1- Amedeo was the second son, and his descendant were not destined to reign;
2- Amedeo was seriously determined to marry MV;
3- There were no Princesses available; even the then Heir to the Throne, Umberto, had to marry a cousin, Margherita, because there was a lack of Catholic Princesses in age to marry.
4- MV was very very rich.
So VE allowed the marriage of Amedeo and Maria Vittoria, that therefore was dinastycal.

i can not helping thinking.....isnt it strange how history produces the most unlikely bedfellows.......a niece of the prince and princess of monaco, marries into the very same family, where a generation or so earlier, tried to force the then prince of monaco to hand over his principality over to the kingdom of sardinia !!!

Well, in the very same period of the wars between Sardinia/Italy and Austria, King Carlo Alberto was married to Archduchess Maria Teresa of Austria, her brother Archduke Rainer was married to CA's sister Maria Francesca, and their children Vittorio Emanuele and Archduchess Maria Adelaide married...Moreover, the son of VE and MA was destined to marry Archduchess Mathilde of Austria, daughter of Archduke Albrecht, Duke of Teschen, if only she would not have died before the marriage...