The Royal House of Savoy: History, Older News, Stories and Pictures

[jonnydep]

well this king, seems to be a colourful man. i would say he was a opportunist forever changing sides to suit himself, his own ambitions and for his own advancement. he certainly lived by the adivce of his ancestor, the founder of the house of savoy, count umberto, who on his deathbed in c1056, is said to have uttered the following- " NEVER ALLY YOURSELF COMPLETELY TO ONE SIDE, ONE FACTION OR ONE POLICY"

this is quite true concerning this king, dont you think ?

yes i have read somewhere that the counts, dukes of savoy and the kings of sardinia and later, the italian kings (with a few exceptions along the way) were seen as "petty-minded princes with the politics of plain opportunism" !!!.

[MAfan]

It's well known that the Savoy Dukes and Kings every time beginned a war on a side and ended it on the other one...

[Alberto2244]

An article on Princess Mafalda and this woman who was put by Mafalda´s side as a spy by the Nazis in Buchenwald as a witness of Jeovah she would not tell lies:

Cristiani Testimoni di Geova: Mafalda di Savoia e Maria Ruhnau:la principessa e la testimone di Geova insieme a Buchenwald.

[amedea]

I have heard that before prince Vittorio Emanule married Marina Ricolfi, there was the hope that he would marry Princess Isabella of Savoy-Genua.. someone else has heard that or have details? since some members is so close to this princess I expect intresting answers

[MAfan]

Originally Posted by MAfan

It's well known that the Savoy Dukes and Kings every time beginned a war on a side and ended it on the other one...

It was used to say "Francia o Spagna, purchè se magna", "France or Spain, provided that we can eat"...

[amedea]

anybody knows if and in which way count Guglielmo Guarienti di Brenzone, son-in-law of princess Jolanda, is related to another son-in-law of the same princess, Carlo Guarienti?

[jonnydep]

king umberto and the marriage of prince vittorio emanuele & marina doria (a non royal) !!

the old king did not agree to the marriage..... resulting (in accordence with the family laws), that his son lost all rights to the throne (though today the prince still regards himself as the head of the house, the rightful heir to the throne and thus the next king of italy)

the old kings thinking and logic in the matter was as follows ......his sons marriage could have harmed the chances of a restoration of his throne in the near or distant future.......his son might had been at some later stage make a more politically, dynastically and financially advantageous match which would help towards a restoration of the throne !!.

thus the next heir to the throne is none the other than, the duke of aosta....but, didnt his ancestor the first duke (and sometime king of spain) married a non royal.....i take it that he had the permisson of his father the king for such a marriage ?

[Warren]

Originally Posted by jonnydep

you had mentioned that the next heir to the throne was none the other than, the duke of aosta....but to come to think of it, didnt his ancestor the first duke (and sometime king of spain) married a non royal.....i take it that he had the permisson of his father the king for such a marriage ?

From Wiki:

Prince Amedeo of Savoy was born in Turin, Italy. He was the second son of Victor Emmanuel II (King of Piedmont, Sardinia and, later, first King of Italy) and of Archduchess Maria Adelaide of Austria. He was made hereditary Duke of Aosta in the year of his birth, 1845.

In 1867 his father yielded to the entreaties of parliamentary deputy Francisco Cassins, and on 30 May of that year, Amedeo was married to Donna Maria Vittoria dal Pozzo, Princess della Cisterna (1847-1876). The king initially opposed the match on the grounds that her family was of insufficient rank, as well as his hopes for his son's marriage to a German princess.

Despite her princely title, donna Maria Vittoria was not of royal birth, belonging rather to the Piedmontese nobility. She was, however, the sole heiress of her father's vast fortune, which subsequent Dukes of Aosta inherited, thereby obtaining wealth independent of their dynastic appanage and allowances from Italy's kings. Maria Vittoria's mother, Countess Louise de Mérode, granddaughter of the Prince de Rubempré and of the Princess van Grimberghe, belonged to one of Belgium's premier noble houses, and had married the Principe della Cisterna in 1846 in a double wedding with her younger sister Antoinette, who married Charles III, the reigning Prince of Monaco.

[jonnydep]

Originally Posted by Warren

Maria Vittoria's mother, Countess Louise de Mérode, granddaughter of the Prince de Rubempré and of the Princess van Grimberghe, belonged to one of Belgium's premier noble houses, and had married the Principe della Cisterna in 1846 in a double wedding with her younger sister Antoinette, who married Charles III, the reigning Prince of Monaco.

i can not helping thinking.....isnt it strange how history produces the most unlikely bedfellows.......a niece of the prince and princess of monaco, marries into the very same family, where a generation or so earlier, tried to force the then prince of monaco to hand over his principality to the kingdom of sardinia !!!

[MAfan]

you had mentioned that the next heir to the throne was none the other than, the duke of aosta....but to come to think of it, didnt his ancestor the first duke (and sometime king of spain) married a non royal.....i take it that he had the permisson of his father the king for such a marriage ?

Amedeo was in love with Maria Vittoria, and he wanted to marry her; his father VE II soon opposed, because she was not a royal and because he wished a royal princess as a wife for Amedeo; btw he gave his permission to the marriage, for two reasons:
1- Amedeo was the second son, and his descendant were not destined to reign;
2- Amedeo was seriously determined to marry MV;
3- There were no Princesses available; even the then Heir to the Throne, Umberto, had to marry a cousin, Margherita, because there was a lack of Catholic Princesses in age to marry.
4- MV was very very rich.
So VE allowed the marriage of Amedeo and Maria Vittoria, that therefore was dinastycal.

i can not helping thinking.....isnt it strange how history produces the most unlikely bedfellows.......a niece of the prince and princess of monaco, marries into the very same family, where a generation or so earlier, tried to force the then prince of monaco to hand over his principality over to the kingdom of sardinia !!!

Well, in the very same period of the wars between Sardinia/Italy and Austria, King Carlo Alberto was married to Archduchess Maria Teresa of Austria, her brother Archduke Rainer was married to CA's sister Maria Francesca, and their children Vittorio Emanuele and Archduchess Maria Adelaide married...Moreover, the son of VE and MA was destined to marry Archduchess Mathilde of Austria, daughter of Archduke Albrecht, Duke of Teschen, if only she would not have died before the marriage...

[amedea]

Which sources report about the love between Amedeo and Maria Vittoria and the opposition of VE? I had never read so. I have read, on the contrary, that MV and her mother lived very privately, going out of their palace just for religious purposes, so that I thought it was impossible for Amedeo to have occasions for knowing her. And the fact that she was the only heir of a family that had in the past some seovereign prerogatives and still was the highest family in the Piedmontese aristocracy (maybe along with the Ferrero di Masserano) confirmed my idea of a normally arranged wedding.

[jonnydep]

Originally Posted by MAfan

Moreover, the son of VE and MA was destined to marry Archduchess Mathilde of Austria, daughter of Archduke Albrecht, Duke of Teschen, if only she would not have died before the marriage...

oh yes i know the story......whilst she was trying to hide a cigarette from her father, her dress caught fire and she died as a result from her burns !!. however the son.....the future king umberto I went on to marry his first cousin margarita of genoa !!

btw...... her widowed mother the duchess of genoa married a non royal and her brother in law the king married one "la rosina" and whose dau vittoria had married two sons of marchese giovanni sinola and his wife isabella grimaldi.......perhaps this lady is related to the princely family of monaco ?

[MAfan]

I don't think, or at least a very distant relative; here in Italy are a lot of Grimaldis.

[jonnydep]

hi amedea........the following quote of warren's may answer part of your question !!

Originally Posted by Warren

From Wiki:
In 1867 his father yielded to the entreaties of parliamentary deputy Francisco Cassins, and on 30 May of that year, Amedeo was married to Donna Maria Vittoria dal Pozzo, Princess della Cisterna (1847-1876). The king initially opposed the match on the grounds that her family was of insufficient rank, as well as his hopes for his son's marriage to a German princess.

i hope this helps........

[MAfan]

Originally Posted by amedea

Which sources report about the love between Amedeo and Maria Vittoria and the opposition of VE? I had never read so. I have read, on the contrary, that MV and her mother lived very privately, going out of their palace just for religious purposes, so that I thought it was impossible for Amedeo to have occasions for knowing her. And the fact that she was the only heir of a family that had in the past some seovereign prerogatives and still was the highest family in the Piedmontese aristocracy (maybe along with the Ferrero di Masserano) confirmed my idea of a normally arranged wedding.

I've just checked in Gianni Oliva's book "Duchi d'Aosta" (in italian); he reports that before the illness and the death of Prince Carlo Emanuele dal Pozzo della Cisterna, MV's father, he and his family used to attend the aristocracy parties in Torino, the same parties and people attended by Amedeo; moreover, MV in 1865 visited Firenze for some time, and in the same period Amedeo and the Royal Family lived there, in the new Capital of the Kingdom..
The life of MV, until the wedding, changed when her father and her sister died in 1864, and her mother fell in depression; what followed is the situation you have described.

[amedea]

Thank you MAfan, I didn't know about this book and since I appreciate G.Oliva's "I Savoia" I will probably look for this other book.
MV inherited from her father and her sister some 4.5 milions of lire which incuded the Turin family palace, the Riano's castle, extended land in Piedmont mostly in the Vercelli area. I am not sure if there were also some villas in Tuscany, somebdy knows?
Someone thinks it can be considered the forth biggest fortune in that time Piedmont (the first being the widow marchioness Falletti di Barolo's one: 6.5 milions) but notes also that in other Italian region there were much biggest fortunes: many milanese families had some 5-10 milions estates, the florentine princely Corsini family had a 22 milions estate and the genuese prince De Ferrari, duke of Galliera had an extraordinary fortune of 140 milions!!

[frank22]

What happened with the life of Mr. Robert de Balkany? Does he married another woman?