The Savoy-Aosta Family

[Chiyo]

What does this mean for the house of Savoy?

[flcty]

I don't know much about Italian royalty so i hope you won't mind explaining to me...
-Who is he excatly?
-What role does he play in the italian royal family?
-Who is he related to (i mean house - - hasburg? or some other family)?
-Is that a good thing or a bad thing that he is a duke of Savoy and not Aosta?
-What is the or is there any diffrence between the titles duke of aosta and savoy?
Thank you

[Hereditary Mapmaker]

In addition to the previously asked questions, if anyone knows at this point please assist with the following:

Does Emanuel Filiberto retain his title? What about Marina?

Does the Italian government have any say in this action? Is this crown council the final authority regarding this issue?

Do Amadeo & descendant retain titles of Duke of Aosta?

Do Almanach de Gotha, et.al., recognize this as a valid proclamation?

Thanks for any assistance!

Mapper

[live4lazio]

[quote=Hereditary Mapmaker]In addition to the previously asked questions, if anyone knows at this point please assist with the following:

Does Emanuel Filiberto retain his title? What about Marina?

Emanuele Filiberto's title was given to him at birth and by the King Umberto II himself. So I would say that it cannot be taken away. Furthermore, Amadeo is not laying claim to Prince of Venice or Piedmont or Vittorio's title of prince of Naples, he is simply calling himself Duke of Savoy--the true title of the head of the house. If Vittorio keeps the title of Prince of Naples then Marina remains Princess of Naples.

Does the Italian government have any say in this action? Is this crown council the final authority regarding this issue?

The Italian government will not take any action. The Constitution of the Italian Republic does not recognize royal or noble titles. This dispute has no bearing on the republic or its governing functions. Therefore the government will likely consider this family squabble to be just that, and a non-issue.

Do Amadeo & descendant retain titles of Duke of Aosta?

Yes, he should. It is the primary title of his line of the family.

Do Almanach de Gotha, et.al., recognize this as a valid proclamation?

Probably not.

[Benjamin]

According to one of the documents posted on the Duke of Savoy's website, Vittorio Emanuele's sister Princess Maria Gabriella is supporting Amedeo.

Also, Aimone (Olga of Greece's fiance) is now the Duke of Aosta.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by live4lazio

Do Almanach de Gotha, et.al., recognize this as a valid proclamation?

Probably not.

I have a feeling that they will be forced to. I think that the Duke of Savoy's case is practically airtight. I mean not only does the Aosta branch support him, but as I said before, so does one of VE's sisters (not sure whether the other two will get involved). And the Council of the Senators of the Italian Kingdom (which was founded in 1955) supports Amedeo as well.

Vittorio Emanuele technically lost his rights when he married Marina Doria without Umberto's permission. And on top of that he had to renounce his claims when he moved back to Italy. Not only that but his actions in the past and present make VE very undesirable as the Italian claimant, even aside from the academic arguments.

[Tosca]

Well, the official historian of the Savoy family when interviewed by Italian mag OGGi, said that Umberto II of Savoy before dying, ordered that all the seals of the House of Savoy to be put in his coffin and buried with him. This putting an end to the Savoy dinasty. Therefore officially there can't be any head of the House of Savoy after his death any more.

[azile]

Amadeo's claim might be further strengthend by Victor Emmanuel himself.

Part of the terms of the Savoy family's return to Italy in 2002 were that Victor Emmanuel officially had to renounce his claim to the throne. This seemed smoothed over, at the time, by the official Papal invitation that permitted them the honors normally reserved for heads of state.

So, while it looked great and seemed like a successful conclusion to the decades Victor Emmanuel campaigned to be allowed back into Italy, the harsh reality is that he and his family swore loyalty to the Italian republic and renounced all claims to the throne.

I can't imagine it's possible to fight for something one has already given up.

Eliza

Here is a short but interesting article about this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/st...808631,00.html

[Tosca]

Furthermore, Amadeo is not laying claim to Prince of Venice or Piedmont

Umberto II refused to name his son VE prince of Poedmont, which is equivalent to the title of England's Prince of Wales, as the late ex-king was well aware that Italy could no longer be a monarchy. So, since the seals of the House of Savoy were buried with Umberto II on his own command, nobody is entitled to became the next Prince of Piedmont as the dinasty was declared dead by the king himself.
I think Marina is the countess of Sant'Anna.

[azile]

Originally Posted by Tosca

Well, the official historian of the Savoy family when interviewed by Italian mag OGGi, said that Umberto II of Savoy before dying, ordered that all the seals of the House of Savoy to be put in his coffin and buried with him. This putting an end to the Savoy dinasty. Therefore officially there can't be any head of the House of Savoy after his death any more.

Another interesting part to this drama. Each week there seems to be another story in this family that comes out, further damaging their credibility.

I might be overly cynical, but this announcement seems motivated by purely selfish factors. Amadeo has just declared himself the winner in the rivalry that has clearly existed between he and Vittorio Emmanuel. There is, after all, no better time to attempt a takeover than when your rival is in jail! It's also very convenient that he can deflect media attention to these matters instead of his new (illegitimate) daughter- the baby he promised he would recognize but yet has failed to do so.

There is seems to be very little gained through this claim- no property, money, crown jewels etc.

Perhaps this now answers the questions posted on this forum about why his son's wedding has been postponed several times and now will be a private affair!

Eliza

[Hereditary Mapmaker]

Thanks, live4lazio, and everyone else for the answers and continued coverage.

Mapper

[Tosca]

Do Amadeo & descendant retain titles of Duke of Aosta?

Amedeo has been named Duke of Savoy by the so-called council of the Senate of the Italian Kingdom (which is obviously a virtual body), while the title of Duke of Aosta has been assigned to his son Aimone, who is currently the Duke of Apulia and will also be involved with the reorganization of the Orders of San Maurizio e Lazzaro, in compliance with Italian law, as he said in an interview.
Princess Maria Gabriella will be responsible for the fields of art, culture and history.

[Tosca]

Amedeo of Savoy-Aosta giving a speech during a press conference held by the (virtual) Senate of Italian Kingdom to explain how they are going to make any information about the House of Savoy clear and exhaustive, and to definitely explain what will be the roles of Vittorio Emanuele and his son Emanuele Filiberto that have been deprived of their authority. (olycom)

[maidmarion]

Thank You to all of you who have maintained all this information. I don't know too much of the Italian Royals and the dynastic nature of their royal protocol so these posts do place much info into perspective for me. After all this would and can be considered such a "scandalous turn of events" in royal affairs. I thoroughly enjoy reading all the posts throughout this forum. Thank You
Cheers,
MM

[Tosca]

Originally Posted by maidmarion

Thank You to all of you who have maintained all this information. I don't know too much of the Italian Royals and the dynastic nature of their royal protocol so these posts do place much info into perspective for me. After all this would and can be considered such a "scandalous turn of events" in royal affairs. I thoroughly enjoy reading all the posts throughout this forum. Thank You
Cheers,
MM

My pleasure.:)

[Tosca]

Amedeo of Aosta's daughter Bianca and husband (olycom)

[iago]

I heard recently from a member of the order of Ss. Maurice & Lazarus ( a dynastic order of the House of Savoy of which Emmanuele Filiberto is Grand Chancellor) and he told me that only 9 out of 61 members of the Consulta dei Senatori del Regno which is an advisory body appointed originally by King Umberto II in 1955, which continued, after the King's death in 1983, to always be subject to the will of HRH Prince Victor Emmanuel of Savoy, as head of the Royal House made this "decision".

Even if the Consulta had acted as a unanimous body (which, of course did not), it lacks both the jurisdiction and the authority to independently "recognize," "declare," or "change" the line of succession of the Italian Royal House. And, or course, neither do the Aostas have the power to self-elevate themselves.

[rchainho]

so, now the heirs are the aosta's?