Savoy and Savoy-Aosta: Restoration, Succession, Heirs and Conflicts

[Tosca]

As I said many a time already, the Italians do not care a bit about the Prince of Venice, and his parents. Neither do they care about the Duke of Aosta.
Why should we restore the monarchy? This country has a lot more serious problems to solve. Bad economy to start with...

[Odette]

It was just a question in my mind. I read interviews E F gave before and of course if you hear him tell the tale the Italians adore him. Then there are these pesky questions about his father's alleged activities and the run for the Senate (?) EF made a few months back.
Personally I do not see any of the deposed monarchies being restored and as you said between illegal immigration, bad economy,social issues and other problems none of these countries need additional divisive issues.

[Count]

In the Italian aristocrats and monarchists clubs you can sometimes hear these words: "The last Savoia died in 1983". we refer to HM King Umberto II, he was the last male member of our Royal family with a Royal behaviour...At that time I was monarchist too (for family tradition) but after the death of King Umberto I changed my mind. Republic is very good and it will not change.
Emanuele Filiberto is trying to do better than his father but anyway his behavious is not the one of a King.

[Odette]

You are not the only one who feels this way and this is not only for Italy. A lot of deposed monarchs kept their mouths shut and their dignity intact, then their children became or married celebrities who "compete" for magazine covers with the starlets.

[Next Star]

Sad that these two branches have problems in between each other and their related.Let's hope that these people can make peace. Because like they say blood is thicker than water.

[latin]

http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/file...guri_ve_fr.pdf

[latin]

Norms governing marriages in the House of Savoy:
http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/file...trimoni_en.pdf

In order to have clear ideas regarding the Succession of HM King Umberto II of Italy and to know who are today the members with dynastic rights of the Italian Royal Family I consider neccesary to put some important documents.
http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/file...ertenza_en.pdf
http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/file...trimoni_en.pdf
http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/file...razione_en.pdf
http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/file...legato1_en.pdf
http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/file...legato2_en.pdf
http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/file...eromano_en.pdf
http://www.realcasadisavoia.org/file...mberini_en.pdf

[reginalix]

I have a question : the future baby will be the fruit of an equal union?
His/ her mother wasn't a RH before the wedding. Herself fruit of morganatic marriage, she's "just" Olga de Greece (de Greece as surname like Louis de Luxembourg's son's surname de Nassau), without official tittles, with the nickname "Princess Olga" by courtesy . She's listed as an aristocrat.
It's a shame! She's more greek princess by looks, blood, mind, education, sincerity... than the Princess of Manhattan Marie-Chantal.

[iakynthi]

You certainly have a good point here But don't forget that there are so many examples of Princes/Princesses,who have a parent who is a commoner:Prince Albert,Princesses Caroline and Stephanie,Leonor and Sophia,Q.Rania's children,Maxima's children etc.And we are talking about Princes/esses widely known,that get so much attention by the media all the time,much more than Olga.At least Olga is a daughter of a real Prince,a man that could have been a King,and a great-grandaughter of a King and Queen-George I and Olga.And she's also a Princess by marriage.Of course,they come from families that have been deposed and all these titles are not recognised by modern democratic countries-like Greece or France-but Olga has the right to claim that she belongs to royalty.Her title(s) and royal bloodline is recognised and respected among the royal circles.Marie-Chantal is another story,she has nothing to do with all these things.Her title-Princess-has been given to her only by the media Let's just say that she has made great PR through the years

[reginalix]

So it's not important for Italian royal family that former King Constantine II (but in 1965 he was King) didn't allow Prince Michel's descendants (daughters Olga and Alexandra) to bear the style ofRoyal Highness and the title Prince or Princess of Denmark? that Olga wasn't HRH Princess Olga of Greece (and Denmark) but only Princess Olga of Greece, morganatic daughter of HRH Prince Michel of Greece? They needn't a HRH or a HIH (or daughter of regnant HSH) for Aimone's wife?

[MAfan]

The Duke of Savoy allowed the marriage, so it is equal and we have to accept it; however, she was given the title of Princess of Greece when she was born, so Aimone married a Princess.

[Charlotte1]

Both of Prince Michael's daughters are HRH, when Michael married a commoner he gave up his succesion rights to the Greek throne, not his HRH. Olga and Alexandra were HRH Princess Alexandra of Greece and Denmark and HRH Princess Olga of Greece and Denmark without succesion rights.

[MAfan]

No, they are (were, before their marriages) HRH, only HH; this style was given them by King Konstantinos, together with the title of Princess of Greece; they didn't have the title of Princess of Denmark, because of the wedding of Michael and Marina.

[amedea]

was konstantinos still on the throne when he gaves them that titles?BTW also the mother of king Charles Albert of Savoy was regarded by someone as born from a morganatic marriage; and the first duchess of Aosta wasn't of exact royal rank.. so nothing new for Savoys..

[amedea]

I think that Savoy law of succession (was it in the civil code of 1942?) consider dynastic all the marriages approved by the head of the house regardless to the rank of the bride. But, as king Umberto said, the head of the house hasn't the (moral) power of changing the secular tradition of marrying in the royal families or similar

[MAfan]

And more, if the Head of the House approves a marriage, the marriage is dinastically valid: for example, the marriages of Princesses Maria Gabriella and Maria Beatrice weren't equal ones, but King Umberto allowed them, and were consedered dinastic marriages, and the Princesses didn't lose their titles. On the contrary, when Vittorio Emanuele married Marina, the King didn't allow him to marry, so he lose his titles. Prince Amedeo has allowed the marriage between Aimone and Olga, with a document deposed to a notary.

[amedea]

So do you think that MG and MB daughters are in a kind of a line of succession to the italian throne? And what about the children of Mafalda and Bianca of Aosta? I'm not convinced ...

[MAfan]

No, they aren't in the line of succession to the Italian Throne because of the Salic Law that rules the Succession, but they (MG and MB) retain their titles due to the permission of King Umberto. If the King wouldn't allow them (MG and MB) to marry, they would have lost their titles and wouldn't be considered members of the Family.

[amedea]

did princess Jolanda loose her status when she married the count calvi di bergolo? I think she did

[maria-olivia]

Is it therefore that King Humberto gave to his grandson the title of prince of Venise instead of Prince of Naples (the normal title of a heir).
An italian friend of mine said that they never had before a Prince of Venise ??