The Royal House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies - Page 3

sjetajiem · #41 06-18-2007, 07:00 PM

From another branch: Princess Annunziata de Borbon dos Sicilias, youngest daughter of prince Antonio and his wife princess Elisabeth, born von Wuertemberg, had her first child a baby-daughter, born in London on June 11th 2007.
Princess Annunziata married count Fredrik Creutz from Finland on August 2nd 2003.
Source: LauraA on Royalsportal

morhange · #42 08-10-2007, 08:42 PM

I just read on Wikipedia that Infante Carlos considers the marriage of his only son to be morganatic. I think that seems funny, considering he (Carlos) considers himself head of house, and to label your only heir's marriage as morganatic seems like he just wants the title for himself, and after he's dead, just let it fall to his cousin's family. But I looked at the children of Prince Ferdinando, and his only son, Carlo, just has daughters. So who, if anyone, would the title fall to in say, twenty years, if Carlo still has daughters and Don Pedro (or his sons) aren't allowed to inherit?

Benjamin · #43 08-10-2007, 10:28 PM

I wonder if Infante Carlos has retroactively recognized the marriage. On the family's website, his son's wife is referred to as "H.R.H. D. Sofia, Duchess of Noto." If she was considered unequal she wouldn't be styled as such, would she?

THE DUKE OF NOTO - The Royal House of Bourbon - Two Sicilies

**Warren** · #44 08-12-2007, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morhange

I just read on Wikipedia that Infante Carlos considers the marriage of his only son to be morganatic... But I looked at the children of Prince Ferdinando, and his only son, Carlo, just has daughters. So who, if anyone, would the title fall to in say, twenty years, if Carlo still has daughters and Don Pedro (or his sons) aren't allowed to inherit?

Whether the marriage is morganatic or not (or more correctly "non-dynastic"), Pedro will still inherit. The question is over Jaime, Pedro's eldest son, who was born in 1993. The other sons, Juan and Pablo, were born after their parents' marriage in 2001. As Benjamin has noted, Pedro's wife Sofia appears increasingly accepted.

My guess as to who would succeed to the Headship of the Royal House if both the Castro and Calabria branches failed is Prince Antonio (1929- ), who married Duchess Elisabeth of Württemberg. They have two sons, the eldest being Prince Franz (Francesco) (1960- ) who is married to Countess Alexandra von Schönborn-Wiesentheid and has a son and a daughter. The younger son is Prince Gennaro, born in 1966.

After them would be Prince Casimir (1938- ) who is married to Princess Maria Cristina of Savoy-Aosta; they have two sons, Luigi and Allesandro.

rosou · #45 01-22-2008, 01:36 AM

I don't know if I got it right, but it seems the Duke of Noto's eldest son was born 8 years before his parents wedding. Is it correct? If so, Pr Pedro was quite young when he was a father for the first time, wasn't he? 25 or 26, I guess. His children are princes of Bourbon Two Siciles, but none among them will be able to be Head of the House?

denice · #46 03-21-2008, 08:50 PM

Did the Duke's father pass away this week? I read that the Duke of Castro passed away.

**Stefan** · #47 03-22-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denice

Did the Duke's father pass away this week? I read that the Duke of Castro passed away.

Yes the Duke of Castro passed away last Thursday. I have seen the annoucment on another side but are notm allowed to post it here as it not on the Official website yet.

Jason R Maier esq · #48 03-22-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denice

Did the Duke's father pass away this week? I read that the Duke of Castro passed away.

Yes, I just happened to notice on Wikipedia in the recent deaths section

**Stefan** · #49 03-22-2008, 10:54 AM

Announcement at the Website of the Constantinian Order

zarat · #50 03-22-2008, 02:17 PM

At their italian website there's still nothing

**Tosca** · #51 03-25-2008, 10:58 AM

The Duke passed away on 21st March in Le Combe (France). He was 81 y/o.

Il Messaggero: Addio al principe Ferdinando di Borbone

NotAPretender · #52 03-25-2008, 12:58 PM

Since neither the Spanish Duke of Calabria, nor the Italian Duke of Calabria have a male heir, who will suceed either of them as heir to the Dukedom?

Would it be possible to finally unite both claims in a single candidate?

**Stefan** · #53 03-26-2008, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAPretender

Since neither the Spanish Duke of Calabria, nor the Italian Duke of Calabria have a male heir, who will suceed either of them as heir to the Dukedom?

Would it be possible to finally unite both claims in a single candidate?

The spanish Duke of Calabvria has a son Pedro, Duke of Noto who is married and has sons. It is not clear if his marriage is dynastic but his wife is referred as Duchess of Noto.

And the italiean Duke of Calabria and his wife can still try to have more children as Camilla is 37 or 36 years old. Probably he will not take the title Duke of CAstro like his father and grandfather

NotAPretender · #54 03-26-2008, 08:08 AM

Stefan, yes, very true; it is murky as to whether the Duke of Noto's marriage is considered dynastic or morganatic. Wikipedia says its morganatic, but it's not a definitive source.

I was not aware that Camilla was only 36 or 37, which I should have looked up. She looks older. Sometimes an attempt to turn back the clock on aging backfires.

**Warren** · #55 03-26-2008, 09:19 AM

The Constantin Order website refers to the Duke of Calabria as "his successor and heir, HRH Prince Carlo, Duke of Castro."
It doesn't clarify the Headship of the Royal House, but we now have one less Duke of Calabria to worry about. Unless of course Carlo has a son...

zarat · #56 03-26-2008, 12:35 PM

Real Casa di Borbone delle Due Sicilie - Annuncio
Eventually there's the information about duke's death at their official website

Alison20 · #57 04-26-2008, 04:25 PM

It seems to me that you can't give up your rights to one throne (France) and marry into another family (Spain) with a reasonable expectation of getting close to the throne there, and then decide that you want to ignore all this at a later date.

I believe the last genuine claimant of the Bourbon line died without male heir in 1936. At this point, the right that the Bourbons had to the French throne moved across to the Orleans Branch. Louis Alphonse's line is a part of the Spanish Royal Family and out of the French one.

I believe it is the same for The Bourbon Two Sicilies line. The second son of Pr Alfonso, Head of the Royal House of BTS, Pr Carlo, became an Infante of Spain on his marriage to Infanta Maria de las Mercedes of Spain, and gave up any rights to the BTS line. This, as with the French case, was because the Spanish line kept looking as if it was going to die out, and there were only female heirs. When these Infantas married it was important that their decendants were only heirs to the Spanish throne and didn't muddy the waters by also being in line to any other throne . It is wrong to say, therefore, that Pr Don Carlos (who is married to Pss Anne of Orleans) is the Head of the Royal House of BTS. (The Don in his title gives it away - he is in the Spanish RF.) When Pr Alfonso of BTS's eldest son (Ferdinando) died without a male heir (1960), the right to be Head of the RH of BTS skipped over Carlo's line (who had 'abdicated') and landed on Pr Ranieri, the third son. With the death of Pr Ranieri's only son, Ferdinando, just recently, the Headship of this family passes to Pr Carlo. He is Fernando's only son - and at present he only has 2 daughters, I believe. So there may be problems with the succession in the future if this situation does not change!

I do not believe that King Juan Carlos of Spain supports the claim of either of his family members to the hypothetical 'thrones' of France or the Two Sicilies. After all their ancestors gave up their claims to become members of the Spanish Royal House.

**Warren** · #58 05-15-2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alison20

I do not believe that King Juan Carlos of Spain supports the claim of either of his family members to the hypothetical 'thrones' of France or the Two Sicilies.

Without gettring involved in the dispute over the rightful head of Bourbon-Two Silciles, the decison of King Juan Carlos to honour Don Carlos, Duke of Calabria, as an Infant of Spain in 1994 made a most definite statement as to whom he believed to be the Head of the Royal House.

Thribette · #59 05-29-2008, 05:25 AM

In 1983, the heads of the French (Alphonse of Bourbon, duke of Anjou and of Cadiz) and Spanish (king Juan-Carlos) royal houses (and of Parma ducal house? Not sure) published (in italian, later in spanish with a change in the order of signatures...) a joint statement, asserting that the head of the Two-Sicilies royal house, was the infant don Carlos.

It is not a proof of his legitimity, some kings of France or Spain have already failed in finding the right heir of a neighbour kingdom, but this shows the position of king Juan-Carlos.

More information here (site in English) :

Two Sicilies Succession, detailed examination of the dispute (Borbone-Due Sicilie disputa)
.