Italian Noble and Princely Families 2: July 2007- 2022

[MAfan]

Was Sen. Carlo Sforza (1872-1952) a descendant of Sforza Family? Does someone know if he really was a Count or not (I read that he wasn't it, but more other sources report he was a count)?

 

[Count]

Oh well... Rome is as good as Milan ... I assumed that the Sforzas lived in Milan since they used to rule it. I have read a couple of books about the Sforza family and the Medici family. The both Houses are truly fascinating. Are there any descendants of the Medicis?

There are many branches of Medici family, who ruled Tuscany, the senior is Medici di Toscana, Princes of Ottajano, than we have the Medici-Tornaquinci, Marquis of Castellina. There is also a family from Milan, Medici di Marignano, but it seems they do not come from the ruling Medici.

Sforza: the politician Carlo Sforza was not noble, even if sometimes people called him with this title.
The Sforza family does not exist anymore, even if it continues through the Riario-Sforza and Counts Cesarini-Sforza. There is also a family in Bologna (with the title of Noble), who has no links with the one from Milan.

 

[Al_bina]

Thanks a lot for the information!
I visited "Masters of Florence: Glory and Genius at the Court of the Medici" exhibition in 2004. It was truly amazing to see all the artefacts exhibited, thereby clearly visusalising the atmosphere of those times. I think that namely the Medici largely forwarded the evolution of Florence as the cultural and commercial centre in Europe not only through banking and commerce, but through art. Because of the Medici as well as other families like them, today we are able to enjoy masterpieces by Raphael, Donatello, Botticelli, Michelangelo, and Leonardo da Vinci. It was one great family. However, I would not put them on pedestal because they were Machiavellian rulers, who deployed usual cruel methods to govern their people. It is worth noting that the times were not exactly peaceful, and the Medici, like any other prominent affluent Italian family, had to use all methods available to protect themselves from being poisoned or assassinated.
I was informed that direct descendants of the Medici family do not exist any more and most of the treasures exhibited were bequeathed by Anna Maria Luisa de'Medici, the last Grand Duchess, to the Florentine state. Thus, it is nice to learn that some minor branches of this great family still exist.

 

[Next Star]

Al bina your story sounds great truly having the chance to visit Italy and learning the history of this country and extinct noble families must have been exciting.Thanks to those who posted pictures and information on Italian nobles.

 

[Tosca]

Here you can find an article with a picture of today's Lorenzo de' Medici: according to his bio, he's one of the last descendants from the historical family that ruled Florence.

He was born in Catanzaro (Calabria), he has a university degree in Political Science, and is fluent in three languages. He took part in a TV reality show called "Wild West" a couple of years ago. The show was a total fiasco, and Lorenzo disappeared from the screen since.

 

[MAfan]

I remember him, and "Wild west"...Of which branch of the Family is a descendant?

 

[Tosca]

Donna Alessandra of the Princes Borghese received the "Silver Rose Prize" as the author of most interesting books concerning the Catholic Faith subjects, in a ceremony held by the Knights of Mercy in Rome.

Donna Alessandra with Prince Urbano Barberini Colonna di Sciarra Riario Sforza, Donna Benedetta Borghese, and Marquise Benedetta Balestra di Mottola

Prince Urbano Barberini with Marquise Benedetta Balestra di Mottola

All pictures are from dagospia/ U. Pizzi da Zagarolo

 

[Count]

I remember him, and "Wild west"...Of which branch of the Family is a descendant?

Hereudner the two "young" Lorenzos, i.e. born after 1970, of the Medici families:

1. Lorenzo de Medici di Ottaiano, born in Naples 1981, son of Don Giovanni Battista de Medici di Ottaiano, Head of the House, Prince of Ottaiano and Duke of Sarno;

2. Lorenzo de Medici di Marignano (Melegnano close to Milan), born in Milan 1994, of the family of the Marquis of Marignano.

As you can see nobody was born and lives in Lamezia, he could be a branch not recognised of the family or a homonymous, who plays the game of descendent in the media circus of the television...

 

[Tosca]

As you can see nobody was born and lives in Lamezia, he could be a branch not recognised of the family or a homonymous, who plays the game of descendent in the media circus of the television...

Thanks for making things clear: there's plenty of people that claims to have a noble title, only because they bear a particular surname. Actually Medici is a very common family name all over Emilia Romagna and Tuscany.
I know quite a few of them...

 

[Next Star]

Nice pictures of Princess Alexandra Borghese recieving her award. And everyone along with her is very happy which is great too.Almost everytime I come on this thread there is someone claiming to be noble and their not even related to the family.
They need to get take some self motivation classes to make themselves feel better without making these false claims.

 

[Count]

Thanks for making things clear: there's plenty of people that claims to have a noble title, only because they bear a particular surname. Actually Medici is a very common family name all over Emilia Romagna and Tuscany.
I know quite a few of them...

Yes, when I studied in Modena, there where a family Medici-Caula with the title of noble, but nothing to do with Tuscany...

 

[tokenguy]

Princess Esther Kapiʻolani Kawānanakoa, Marignoli dei Marchese di Montecorona

Does anyone have pictures of Princess Esther or her children? Apparently she married an Italian Marchese; making her children of both royal Hawaiian and noble European ancestry.

 

[Tosca]

Yes, when I studied in Modena, there where a family Medici-Caula with the title of noble, but nothing to do with Tuscany...

I was talking about ordinary people, with no noble title who bear the Medici surname.

 

[Tosca]

Lapo Elkann made his début as a fashion designer in Rome. Of course there were some aristocrats among the guest who'd come to welcome him to the world of fashion.

Lapo's great aunt Maria Sole Agnelli with son Count Edoardo TEodorani Fabbri

Lapo with Prince Carlo Caracciolo

Lapo with Alessandra of the Princes Borghese


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Marquise Isabella Casali di Monticelli at an event

 

[Tosca]

Countess Hortensia Visconti and Pss Flaminia Orsini at an exhibition in Rome (Photo by U. Pizzi da Zagarolo/dagospia)

ETA: I just learned from the Almanach of Gotha that Luciano Pavarotti was the Count of Modena. Does anyone know when he or one of his ancestors was given that title?
I find it hard to think of his father being a count and a baker at the same time. Any clue?

 

[Count]

What's exactly this "Almanach of Gotha"? one of the many a website about fake nobility? it can not be the real booklet...

 

[Warren]

The Almanach de Gotha? Every card-carrying royalist should have one in their library, and every mother seeking a suitable match for her children should carry one in her handbag!

Wiki: Almanach de Gotha

v Pic not subject to copyright under free-use provision

 

[Tosca]

What's exactly this "Almanach of Gotha"? one of the many a website about fake nobility? it can not be the real booklet...

Actually it's a website called "Almanach de Gotha", but I can't tell if it's an official website...
That's why I asked. I can't imagine a count of Modena running a bakery, which means getting up very early in the morning...

 

[MAfan]

I've visited this site...Who is His Imperial and Royal Highness Prince Karl Friedrich of Germany, Duke of Swabia, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg, Prince of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen-Rudolstadt (Prince of The Holy Roman Empire)??? I've never heard anithing about him!!!

 

[Count]

Actually it's a website called "Almanach de Gotha", but I can't tell if it's an official website...
That's why I asked. I can't imagine a count of Modena running a bakery, which means getting up very early in the morning...

If we had a King in Italy, Pavarotti would have received a title, for sure.
Title were used also as "prize" for a person, who made great his country through the art.
But as we do not have a Monarchy nobody has given him titles of nobility!
In the Uk the Queen granted the title of Life Peer to famous Architects and other people...

I've visited this site...Who is His Imperial and Royal Highness Prince Karl Friedrich of Germany, Duke of Swabia, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg, Prince of Schwarzburg-Sondershausen-Rudolstadt (Prince of The Holy Roman Empire)??? I've never heard anithing about him!!!

I am not home, so I can not check any book about German nobility, but the information concerning Pavarotti is enough to say that informations given by this website are not correct.
Traditionally the Almanach the Gotha listed the Royal families, the mediatised German families and some families of the highest European nobility...

 

[Tosca]

Princess Bona Borromeo (l) with Maruise Marta Brivio Sforza

Count Gaddo della Gherardesca with daughter Costanza and Matilde Borromeo

Pics are from DivaeDonna mag

 

[Regina]

If we had a King in Italy, Pavarotti would have received a title, for sure.
Title were used also as "prize" for a person, who made great his country through the art.
But as we do not have a Monarchy nobody has given him titles of nobility!
In the Uk the Queen granted the title of Life Peer to famous Architects and other people...

That's one of the advantages of having a monarchy. Artists and worthy people are more recognized than in republics

I've heard about a Title in Italy named "Patrizio". What does it means? Is it trnsmitted to heirs female too?

 

[Tosca]

You can find some infos here.

I cannot tell if it can be passed on to femalre heirs, though. Perhaps a patrician woman is also styled as "Donna" the equivalent to "Lady" in English.

 

[MAfan]

In ancient Repubbliche Marinare (Venezia, Pisa, Genova and Amalfi) this title was used; in Pisa and Venezia it was used also from women, in Genova and Amalfi not.

 

[Regina]

Thanks a lot Tosca and MAfan! You replied to everything I wanted to know about the Title

 

[Count]

The title of Patrician existed in cities, which were important in their areas from an historical point of view, or the former capital cities of Italian duchies.

The style of a female member of a Patrician family can be:

1. Nobile Alessandra Rossi of the Patricians of XYZ, if the title in that city was given to males only;

2. Alessandra Rossi, Patrician of XYV, if the title in that city was given to both males and females.

3. N.D. (Nobil Donna) Alessandra Rossi, if the family is from Venice.

The style of "Don" and "Donna" is given to all members of princerly and ducal families, to the Roman families with the privilege of the "Baldacchino" (families who could receive the Pope in their Palaces), to some families of the former Kingdom of Two Sicilies, to the families of Sardinia, and some families of Lombardia as heritage of the ancient Spanish occupation.

 

[sgl]

Very interesting! What would determine if a family could receive the Pope in their palace? Was it related to loyalty to the church, social status, or something else? I would assume that simply being noble would not entitle one to receive a visit from the Pope.

 

[Count]

Yes, generally speaking these families were the Pricerly and ducal families, who gave a Pope to the Church but also some families, who had important offices in the Pope's Court.
The honour of "Marchese di Baldacchino" (=Marquis of the Baldachin) concerns nowadays the families of the Marquis Patrizi-Naro-Montoro, Theodoli and Counts Soderini.

These families had (and still have) in their houses a big armchair (like a throne), under a baldachin and the portrait of the reigning Pope. This chair was turned to the wall because only the Pope can sit there...

 

[MAfan]

Was Altieri family one of these? I visited Palazzo Altieri in Rome last January, and I remember a room with this Baldachin...Now the palace belongs to a bank, and the room is used as a conference room, but it preserves the baldachin...

 

[Count]

Yes, this family enjoyed the right of the baldachin, as Princerly Roman family, Princes of Oriolo and Viano, by the way...